A question on my mind virtually every day [Would BB draft Maye]

[sb1]

Because he saw deficiencies in Maye?

I see deficiencies in Maye each and every week. It doesn't mean I don't think he's great.

You're accentuating the negative in Belichick's comments and ignoring the very glowing comments.

"He makes amazing throws."

"He can make every throw all over the field."

Not to mention the physical stuff.

You can't ignore the positive comments in order to emphasize the negative ones.

It's not what he said on draft night, it's his actions to date.

When has Bill ever wanted to anoint a very raw high upside kid that as his potential franchise QB instead of a polished high floor guy that will do exactly as he's told? Brady doesn't count because Bledsoe was the starter and Tom was picked in the 6th round not 1st.

Now Jimmy was such a high floor QB and of course so was Mac Jones (case in point - he didn't move up for Justin Fields in the draft. nuff said). And that's who he picked. Picking Maye would go completely against his MO and at his age and temperament of going with what he knows well, its extremely unlikely that would happen. No reason to "credit" Bill for a total fantasy. Much more likely Bo Nix or JJ would be a Patriot under Bill's watch.

 

[Steve102]

I give Belichick plenty off credit for everything he achieved here, drafting Brady and creating a 20 year dynasty, but I'm not going to give him credit for something he clearly would not have done. And what's really sad is the Cult of Bill demanding that you not only credit him for picking and developing the GOAT, and creating the dynasty, but you have to go along with every other thing they believe about Belichick or you are a hater. It's ****ing ********.

Who is this Cult of Bill you speak of? Sounds like one guy.

 

[upstater1]

Without you listing who he passed on to trade down, this list doesn’t mean much. Did he pass on any blue chips to trade down? I know he didn’t with Mayo.

But in 2009, Belichick traded away the 23rd pick to the Ravens who took Michael Oher and then traded again the 26th pick which was Clay Matthews. Matthews was a blue chip player and Edelman could have still been picked up without a trade.

In 2010, the Pats traded the 22nd pick which turned out to be DeMaryius Thomas and the 24th pick which was Dez Bryant. Both were blue chip players.

In 2020, he traded down from 23 to 37. The Pats could have drafted Brandon Aiyuk, Jordan Love, or Tee Higgins at 23 since they all went between 23 and 37.

You forgot 2022 when the Pats traded down to draft Cole Strange. They traded down from 21 to 29 where they could have gotten Tyler Smith or Jermaine Johnson. Smith is a blue chip guard and Johnson is a very good LB.

He might've passed on a lot of these guys but he ended up with really great players in doing so, but again, my point is, he didn't move out of the meat of picking blue chippers. So in 2009 he passed on Oher but ended up with Vollmer. 2010 he landed McCourty, Gronkowksi and Hernandez. 2020 you're right about that one, should've stayed put, though Packers fans want to get rid of Jordan Love ASAP. Should've taken the WR (even though they just took Harry the previous year).

I think the 2022 draft is a weird one since the values dropped a lot. Should've taken McDuffie for sure, but look at the first and second round that year. I think 2022 is the weakest NFL draft in some time. It was clear we wanted to take a tackle, and 6 got taken before our pick in the 20s (although most of them have busted).

My point is that when we've had real assets (i.e. picks in the meat of the draft) we've made moves both up and down, but almost always ended up with good players.

This doesn't mean we wouldn't have traded the Maye pick, I'm only questioning the idea that we definitely would have because Belichick ALWAYS did that. He didn't. He stayed put just as often, and he traded up just as often. It ALWAYS depended on who the player was that he was targeting.

 

[upstater1]

It's not what he said on draft night, it's his actions to date.

When has Bill ever wanted to anoint a very raw high upside kid that as his potential franchise QB instead of a polished high floor guy that will do exactly as he's told? Brady doesn't count because Bledsoe was the starter and Tom was picked in the 6th round not 1st.

Now Jimmy was such a high floor QB and of course so was Mac Jones (case in point - he didn't move up for Justin Fields in the draft. nuff said). And that's who he picked. Picking Maye would go completely against his MO and at his age and temperament of going with what he knows well, its extremely unlikely that would happen. No reason to "credit" Bill for a total fantasy. Much more likely Bo Nix or JJ would be a Patriot under Bill's watch.

I'm struggling here trying to understand this sentence. He had Brady for 20 years... Garoppolo was actually considered an incredibly talented QB by a lot of scouts, strong arm, mobile, super quick release, really mobile and could run. No one knew he was made out of glass. He could've been another Drew Brees if he had another body.

But you're looking at the pick of Mac instead of Justin Fields as evidence he wouldn't have taken a raw Maye?

One instance of taking one QB over an entire career definitively means he wouldn't have taken Maye? I would make the opposite argument on that one: he soured on Mac because Mac COULD NOT make all the throws, and this really limited to the offense to only throwing over the middle. The next QB would therefore be like Maye, a guy who "makes amazing throws" and who "can make all the throws."

Neither point of view has any evidence behind it but it's also not like Belichick was ever afraid to develop players, even QBs like Brady. Brady was indeed limited in 2001 and 2002 and he developed into a really good QB in 2003. It took 3 years for that to happen.

 

[upstater1]

The Vikings drafted McCarthy at 11. Many people on this board wanted the Pats to draft McCarthy at 3.

And speaking of Waddle, he was drafted with one of the three first round picks that Miami got from San Fran to trade up to three to draft Trey Lance. And San Fran traded first round picks over three years where the Vikes offered two firsts in the same year and one first in the next.

You are assuming that Belichick saw Maye as worlds better than McCarthy. I am not sure he would have seen it that way.

Obviously we don't know. What I wrote, however, was that there was no guarantee McCarthy would be there at 11, so even if he liked McCarthy, that doesn't mean he makes the trade.

 

[sb1]

I'm struggling here trying to understand this sentence. He had Brady for 20 years... Garoppolo was actually considered an incredibly talented QB by a lot of scouts, strong arm, mobile, super quick release, really mobile and could run. No one knew he was made out of glass. He could've been another Drew Brees if he had another body.

But you're looking at the pick of Mac instead of Justin Fields as evidence he wouldn't have taken a raw Maye?

Ok but again Jimmy was not raw. Bill has never picked a raw QB like Maye as his potential NFL franchise QB in his life. Saying he'd suddenly pivot to a completely different philosophy of picking QB's at his age is a fantasy and with all due respect it's wishful thinking.

One instance of taking one QB over an entire career definitively means he wouldn't have taken Maye? I would make the opposite argument on that one: he soured on Mac because Mac COULD NOT make all the throws, and this really limited to the offense to only throwing over the middle.

And Bill drafted him so that doesn't say much for Bill's ability to evaluate QB's does it.

He soured on Mac because Mac had enough of the MP/JJ fiasco and went outside the building for advice. He wants his QB's to have a high baseline and just do what they're told.... and understandably so since he is a defensive coach not offense. High floor and polished guys are what he wants, not raw QB's that need a ton of development. He wasn't picking Maye.

The next QB would therefore be like Maye, a guy who "makes amazing throws" and who "can make all the throws."

Neither point of view has any evidence behind it but it's also not like Belichick was ever afraid to develop players, even QBs like Brady. Brady was indeed limited in 2001 and 2002 and he developed into a really good QB in 2003. It took 3 years for that to happen.

Limited? Or just had the reins put on him by Weis? Based on his leap in 02 and again in 03-04 I'd say it was the latter. He was a darn good QB at Michigan.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Who is this Cult of Bill you speak of? Sounds like one guy.

It's more than one guy, SBB is just the most deranged of the bunch.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The Vikings drafted McCarthy at 11. Many people on this board wanted the Pats to draft McCarthy at 3.

And speaking of Waddle, he was drafted with one of the three first round picks that Miami got from San Fran to trade up to three to draft Trey Lance. And San Fran traded first round picks over three years where the Vikes offered two firsts in the same year and one first in the next.

You are assuming that Belichick saw Maye as worlds better than McCarthy. I am not sure he would have seen it that way.

They are actually pretending that Belichick would have taken the guy he considers the 5th best pocket passer at 3.

 

[Rob0729]

Obviously we don't know. What I wrote, however, was that there was no guarantee McCarthy would be there at 11, so even if he liked McCarthy, that doesn't mean he makes the trade.

He could have dropped two spots and picked up an extra first with the Giants and McCarthy would have definitely been there.


BTW, no one expected the run on QBs that happened in that draft. No one could have predicted the Falcons were going to draft Penix when they paid so much to get Cousins. Most mock drafts had McCarthy going late in the first or early second. If Belichick was in control of that draft and decided to trade down with the Vikes, he might have expected McCarthy to be available with the 23rd pick that that they picked up in the trade.

 

[Rob0729]

He might've passed on a lot of these guys but he ended up with really great players in doing so, but again, my point is, he didn't move out of the meat of picking blue chippers. So in 2009 he passed on Oher but ended up with Vollmer. 2010 he landed McCourty, Gronkowksi and Hernandez. 2020 you're right about that one, should've stayed put, though Packers fans want to get rid of Jordan Love ASAP. Should've taken the WR (even though they just took Harry the previous year).

I think the 2022 draft is a weird one since the values dropped a lot. Should've taken McDuffie for sure, but look at the first and second round that year. I think 2022 is the weakest NFL draft in some time. It was clear we wanted to take a tackle, and 6 got taken before our pick in the 20s (although most of them have busted).

My point is that when we've had real assets (i.e. picks in the meat of the draft) we've made moves both up and down, but almost always ended up with good players.

This doesn't mean we wouldn't have traded the Maye pick, I'm only questioning the idea that we definitely would have because Belichick ALWAYS did that. He didn't. He stayed put just as often, and he traded up just as often. It ALWAYS depended on who the player was that he was targeting.

You are kinda making my point for me. When Belichick traded down, he felt he could get a comparable player as the ones he was passing on at a lower draft position. So if Belichick didn't think there was much difference between Maye or McCarthy or even he felt McCarthy was better, he wouldn't have a problem trading down with the Vikes even if he had to move back up a bit to get him.

 

[signbabybrady]

Who is this Cult of Bill you speak of? Sounds like one guy.

It's more than one guy, SBB is just the most deranged of the bunch.

I would think everyone on a Patriots message board would be a proud member of the cult of Bill Belichick.

But please go on and tell us more about how much you hate Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

I listed all the times the Pats traded back in he first round under Belichick. The are the only years relevant to the discussion. I was responding to the assertion that if there was a blue chip player in the spot the Pats picked, Belichick didn't trade down and he took the player. I am pointing at the blue chip players Belichick passed on to trade down.

What about all the other times we left a blue chip prospect on the board?

And how are you determining blue chip prospect? Were these guys listed that way in ourlads or something or just using your hindsight?

I guess no one had a good draft in 2000 since everyone passed Brady 6 times.

 

[Steve102]

I would think everyone on a Patriots message board would be a proud member of the cult of Bill Belichick.

But please go on and tell us more about how much you hate Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

Point proven thx

 

[Steve102]

Point proven thx

I don't hate Bill, not even a little. I do hate how you feel that everyone who doesn't fellate him is a hater. Your audience for your nonsense has dropped by one. Sorry buddy, I tried.

 

[1960Pats]

Why would you waste your time thinking about something that is impossible to answer?

Try this one. Do colors look the same to everyone?
How do you know that what you see as red is what I see as blue?
How would we know?

You would know by looking at a color chart and getting the same answers from everyone.

Answering impossible questions is called an opinion.

 

[1960Pats]

People say this because the Patriots were always picking in the last part of the first round. Every year, there are only a handful of blue-chippers. They are all gone by the latter part of the 1st round.

That isn't even close to true and the best example played QB here for twenty years. The HOF is full of players at every position who were drafted in later rounds and after other players at the same position.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't hate Bill, not even a little. I do hate how you feel that everyone who doesn't fellate him is a hater. Your audience for your nonsense has dropped by one. Sorry buddy, I tried.

This should be a point in a Patriots fan life where we have nothing but love for these former champions. If you don't want to fellate then you don't belong here.

 

[signbabybrady]

This thread should be merged with the Bill Mega thread since like all things Bill it's devolving into another hater's fest.

Not to mention it's the same as this thread which also should have been moved to the mega thread.

https://www.patsfans.com/new-englan...ous-question-about-bb-and-drake-maye.1166844/

Just more evidence that the Mods favor the Belichick hate. Pretty sure a couple of them are in the club.

 

[sb1]

If a Bill rump swab like Jerry Thornton doubts Bill takes Maye at 3 then that says it all.

In a Fascinating Hypothetical, the Internet is Asking Whether Bill Belichick Would've Drafted Drake Maye

Read more about In a Fascinating Hypothetical, the Internet is Asking Whether Bill Belichick Would've Drafted Drake Maye on https://www.barstoolsports.com/

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Yep I can definitely see Bill trying to make Zappe work here.