Patriots need to get more out of Henderson

[captain stone]

I open to trying anybody right now even T jennings at RB.

Jennings Sucks. He has some burst for his size; but he has no vision or agility. The nepo-tards upstairs need to find us a Real RB.
Preferably Two.

 

[captain stone]

You could put ************ with rocket boosters up his ass back there, and it won't matter if Tubagoo is ole'ing every run block.

Bradbury's not much better either; and Wilson's so damn inexperienced too.

 

[TommyD4207]

Bradbury's not much better either; and Wilson's so damn inexperienced too.

Bradbury had a great 3 game run there, sorta fell off a cliff in the Saints game. I don't know how much of that was compensating for Tubagoo, so Tubagoo could have his pristine PFF ""grades"".

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

"Diggs"? Doesn't he mean Moses?

Yeah, I think that was a... I don't even know what it's called... A full word typo?

 

[TheRainMaker]

And we’ve won SBs with average to a below average WR room.

Aside from 2001 and 2018, they've had a solid WR group. My rankings:

2004
2016
2014
2003
2018
2001

 

[captain stone]

ROFL

This line protects well enough to have us in 1st and in the top 10 in Offense. With better play from LB's and defensive coaching, or even one or two fewer fumbles by the RB's, we would be in even better shape.

What do LBs, defensive coaching, or even fumbles have to do with our piss-poor run-blocking?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Aside from 2001 and 2018, they've had a solid WR group. My rankings:

2004
2016
2014
2003
2018
2001

Yes they have.
My point still stands, they have won SBs with average or below WR rooms.
Maybe Ahmed is too young to remember.
Troy Brown, David Patten; Jermanine Wiggins (TE). Our 3rd leading WR was Terry Glenn he played 4 games!
I loved Troy Brown, but he was never considered a legit alpha #1.
Our pass catchers in 2001 were worse than average.
2004 our leading WR was Branch who was 32nd in the NFL in receiving yards (he did have some big moments for sure). Givens was our #2, 74th in NFL receiving yards. Brown started 12 games and had 472 yards, he was in steep decline.

 

[ahmed]

Yes they have.
My point still stands, they have won SBs with average or below WR rooms.
Maybe Ahmed is too young to remember.
Troy Brown, David Patten; Jermanine Wiggins (TE). Our 3rd leading WR was Terry Glenn he played 4 games!
I loved Troy Brown, but he was never considered a legit alpha #1.
Our pass catchers in 2001 were worse than average.
2004 our leading WR was Branch who was 32nd in the NFL in receiving yards (he did have some big moments for sure). Givens was our #2, 74th in NFL receiving yards. Brown started 12 games and had 472 yards, he was in steep decline.

LOL - my point is you are forgetting who we had at QB when we won said SBs.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

LOL - my point is you are forgetting who we had at QB when we won said SBs.

Not at all.
2001 Brady was not 2004 and beyond Brady.
Maye is playing at much higher level this year than Brady did in 2001 and it's not even particularly close.
our 3 leading WRs on our SB run in 2001 were Brown, Patten and Charles Johnson...and Johnson had 2 catches for 22 yds in those 3 postseason games.
That is the definition of a less than average WR room, and 2001 Brady was not yet the saviour.

 

[TheRainMaker]

My point still stands, they have won SBs with average or below WR rooms.

It's not exactly a formula that you want to go by. The Pats found out in 2006, 2010 and 2013 having a below average WR group isn't sustainable. Teams like Buffalo are trying to copy the Chiefs formula and it's mind boggling how the Chiefs managed to win 2 Super Bowls since trading Tyrek Hill. Buffalo is going to flame out of the playoffs again if they don't make a move at WR.

With that said, the Pats have a decent enough WR core. They just need to run the ball better to not only take the pressure off Maye, but open things up for the WR's.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

It's not exactly a formula that you want to go by. Teams like Buffalo are trying to copy the Chiefs formula and it's mind boggling how the Chiefs managed to win 2 Super Bowls since trading Tyrek Hill. Buffalo is going to flame out of the playoffs again if they don't make a move at WR.

With that said, the Pats have a decent enough WR core. They just need to run the ball better to not only take the pressure off Maye, but open things up for the WR's.

I agree 100000%, we need to run the ball better, like waaaaaaaay better.
I like our WR room, it's definitely good enough to win a SB if we can run it better and Maye continues his level of play.

 

[ahmed]

Not at all.
2001 Brady was not 2004 and beyond Brady.
Maye is playing at much higher level this year than Brady did in 2001 and it's not even particularly close.
our 3 leading WRs on our SB run in 2001 were Brown, Patten and Charles Johnson...and Johnson had 2 catches for 22 yds in those 3 postseason games.
That is the definition of a less than average WR room, and 2001 Brady was not yet the saviour.

You can list all the stats you want but Maye has yet to show what Brady did in 2001 which is lead several clutch drives in high pressure situations and win big games.

You are right. One is not even close to the other.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

You can list all the stats you want but Maye has yet to show what Brady did in 2001 which is lead several clutch drives in high pressure situations and win big games.

You are right. One is not even close to the other.

And back to your original argument, we have won with less than avg WR rooms.
Deflect all you want, you were simply incorrect.

 

[dliverey44]

"Diggs"? Doesn't he mean Moses?

Not sure what he means, but Diggs misses a block at the 50 sec mark. He has missed similar blocks on multiple occasions.

 

[ahmed]

And back to your original argument, we have won with less than avg WR rooms.
Deflect all you want, you were simply incorrect.

I am not at all. That statement is as ridiculous as it is useless. We won with average WRs when we had a different QB. One who while was not yet what he became, but the important stuff was there in decision making and clutch performances.

You would have a point if the conditions were similar. For example, same QB that did the winning.

Your statement is as relevant as saying some team won 50 years ago with average WRs, so we can do it too.

That's before getting into the multitude of other differences in both teams and the game itself.

 

[Vindicate]

A DIFFERENT PERSEPCTIVE
1) Josh should be more creative in the run game. However, he has been quite capable of being very productive out of run game sets. Henry, Hooper and whoever is in the slot have been doing very well.

It is NOT clear that being a top passing team and having poor running stats is terrible. Teams don't respect our receivers, and Maye continues to make them pay. AND the receivers are getting healthier and more effects. Williams has been a disappointment so far as a rookie, but the production from the current top four has been really great.

BOTTOM LINE, we need to keep running, but if they give us the pass, then we can win that way.

2) Yes, we need a 3rd RB to share reps. Henderson is limited in the number of reps where he can be effective.

3) Complaining about the OL is about the worst nonsense I have heard on this board this year. Our OL will continue to imporve, but it may already be an average NFL OL which is plenty good enough to get us into the playoffs as is our Offense as a whole.

Curiously, it has been the Defense that needs to continue their improvement and health on the EDGE and SAFETY.

First off, I promise you, there has been absolutely batshit insane things proposed on this forum just in this past week that would dethrone complaining about the OL 10x over.

Second off, I don't think anyone is saying the OL is bad. We're saying that it's not good at run blocking.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

I am not at all. That statement is as ridiculous as it is useless. We won with average WRs when we had a different QB. One who while was not yet what he became, but the important stuff was there in decision making and clutch performances.

You would have a point if the conditions were similar. For example, same QB that did the winning.

Your statement is as relevant as saying some team won 50 years ago with average WRs, so we can do it too.

That's before getting into the multitude of other differences in both teams and the game itself.

You can explain it away with as much word salad as want, it doesn't change anything.
We have won SBs with less than average WR rooms, it is a 100% true statement which you chose to to argue.
And even if you wanted to delve into further, Brady was not near the QB in 2001 that he later became. He was playing no better than Maye is this year, in fact Maye is playing at a higher level.

 

[mgteich]

First off, I promise you, there has been absolutely batshit insane things proposed on this forum just in this past week that would dethrone complaining about the OL 10x over.

Second off, I don't think anyone is saying the OL is bad. We're saying that it's not good at run blocking.

OK, I agree. The run blocking of our OL isn't good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. My hope is that they will improve and that Josh will better plan his running plays. A good/great coach learns to make the best plans with the players that he has. 4-2, and potentially 6-3 at the half is doing well with what we have.

My point is that the OL is playing well enough to win and get into the playoffs, and even deep, depending on health. luck and improvement in the Defense.

I believe that we can have a #5 Defense this year, and a good ST group.
==========

 

[Real fan 02]

David Patten, David Givens, Chris Hogan, Jermaine Wiggins….etc Not exactly world beaters. Jules was great, but if he’s your #1, he would probably be what, maybe the 25th best #1 in the league?

Jules was likely the franchises best postseason wr. The guy was nails in the postseason. The opposite of Welker in the postseason. Yes, we also had an elite defense on the othet side of the ball. Let's not forget 2003 was not a great offensive team.. 2004 was far better.

 

[Real fan 02]

• 2025: Philadelphia Eagles
• 2024: Kansas City Chiefs
• 2023: Kansas City Chiefs
• 2022: Los Angeles Rams
• 2021: Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Last Five SB winners take out Mahomes and all the winners had Excellent WR's.

Yep! And we were 29th in rushing last season.. seems like some forgot that.. over maybe winning a whopping 4 games may have clouded thier memory.. we mustn't trick ourselves into believing that we should never seek to add to the roster.. Vrabel isn't bringing in anyone that thinks he's bigger than the team.... if we got a high caliber player on offense to pair with Diggs and Boutte.. people would be jumping for joy...