The McDaniels Effect... Passing Numbers up across the board

[maust]

Little kids in grade school learn...

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but...

You know what they used to teach in kindegarten? Don't be a ****, obviously that was before you went. I'm fairly sure they still teach grade school kids everything after the 'but' is ******** although I'm thinking they probably use a more PG word 'cause kids

 

[maust]

I can't do this anymore...

We don't need to make extreme reaches to talk up an OC. It's not worth fighting over, think whatever you want.

Maybe actually stop? It was a flawed comp, we all get it. Feel free to stop inflating your sense of superiority at someone else's expense
I thought better of you, I'd expect that **** out of Andy
It wasn't worth your initial 'better than thou' BS, it certainly wasn't worth more but here you are continuously spreading it.

 

[lancerman]

I thought better of you, I'd expect that **** out of Andy
It wasn't worth your initial 'better than though' BS, it certainly wasn't worth more but here you are continuously spreading it.

I'm tired and cranky bro. Got an all nighter ahead of me. Sorry if I'm being ornery. Same goes to you @Pape

 

[Triumph]

Interestingly, Pats in 2021 were ranked 7th (dead last in 2022). Avg pts per drive was WAY higher in 2021 than 2019. Passing offense was about the same both years even though McD didn't let Mac burn himself too much on the stove (let him cook).

Corky Mac was more dink and dunk. Always taking check downs.

 

[BobDigital]

Mildly hot take. I don't think McDaniels is all that good an OC. Clearly he's decent if he managed to stay in the league for this long. But why does he get a pass and not BB on the Tom Brady effect?

Basically everywhere else he's been an OC or HC the offense has been pretty bad outside of 1 year in LVR where both DeVante Adams and Josh Jacobs absolutely went insane. Then it fell down the drain the next year when he couldn't handle the QB situation.

Look at the stuff Shanahan does with the 49ers, Reid of in KC or the way they open guys up with the Bucs. There are OCs and HCs you clearly feel put their thumb on the scale. McDaniels feels more like just another guy. He runs his system but it depends on having a talented QB. I don't see much creativity on the field to spring guys open or anything used to power the difficulty of execution while still getting solid results.

 

[aluminum seats]

I like McDaniels a lot as an offense coordinator, I don’t think the comparison to the first four games last year says much at this point though

 

[Triumph]

Transcribe is back to his stalking.

 

[stinkypete]

1. the numbers are the numbers... he was the guy we brought in the be "the guy" while Maye rode the bench... this speaks volumes about the quality of the staff on the team last year - they are the ones who thought he would be a good place holder...

2. the seahawks were the best team we faced last year in the first four games. the 49ers and jets started 2-2, and the bengals started 1-3... did we have to face the 9ers with CMC or Justin Hargrave? no we did not... they had already hit the slide in week 4... Hardly a murderers row to start the year... so lets not make it out to be so...

I am using the data that we have... nothing wrong with that... what the data tells us is that we are a better team this year than we were last year. Nothing more... nothing less... no grandiose claims are being made, no shouts of "PLAYOFFS" are rebounding off the sides of the echo chamber...

tldr:

Not to mention, last year Maye started against stretches of poor teams, and lost… in some cases, badly.

Looking good against a bad team is a huge step, sad as it sounds. We hadn’t looked good against a bad team since 2022.

Even the Pittsburgh game, if you cut the turnovers in half, would have looked like a strong offensive performance against a stout defense.

I’m pretty close to sold on the offensive relent being, well, serviceable. Don’t discount how big a step this is. It’s been years.

 

[Triumph]

We’re all looking for signs to know whether the ship is pointed in the right direction. I think it is. The ship just hasn’t gone that far yet. This forum is all high highs and low lows.

3rd down offense has improved too.

2025 - 41.7% 3rd downs made @ 10th rank.
2024 - 34.9% 3rd downs made @ 29th rank.

2025- NE 13th rank in 1st down success.
2024- NE 28th rank in 1st down success.

 

[KCSVEN]

They start 4 new lineman and added Diggs. Josh has done well calling plays. I do wish he had more down the field throws like the Bills do with Allen but perhaps that’s a receiver issue or a decision to get the ball out quick to help the line.
Passing game is a team strength. Along with run defense. Run offense and pass defense been the issues

 

[Patsfan1645]

Little kids in grade school learn that when you make an evaluation on a variable you have to have a defined control variable to make a meaningful evaluation of a hypothesis. Like 5th and 6th graders take tests on **** just like this and have to answer "the controlled variable is insufficient to draw a conclusion".

Very basic ****. When your data set is that flawed, the answer isn't to throw your hands up and say "well this is all we have" to make a flawed assessment. It's to acknowledge the reality that the data isn't valuable enough yet to create the circumstances for an evaluation.

Another tidbit, AVP's numbers last year WENT UP when they switched from Brissett to Maye.

I see a difference in talent. Maye is better than Brissett. He even took a step up from last year. The line is holding up a bit better and Maye has more time to work with. Henderson is more dynamic than are other RB's and adds more dimension there. Diggs is being accounted for more in the backfield. Those are things to be positive about.

But if you are comparing McDaniels? Not a whole lot to go by. They still have turn over issues, Henry running the same routes is still the bread and butter for the offense, they generally are still going with a similar RBBC by committee package. It's very difficult to look at McDaniels and say he's in any way the difference here. The players so far are better and that's adding more to the overall package. Also let's be real, we've seen McDaniels for 13 seasons of Josh running the offense, we know he's very talent dependent like most OC's. We've seen extreme highs and we've seen lows with him. Its pretty easy to assess who he is.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but this isn't about Josh. It's about a second year QB, a better line, and some added pieces that are making us less of a one dimensional team that other DC's don't respect.

The line last year was ranked 27th in the league. This year they are currently ranked 14th. I would say that is more than a bit better.

 

[Patsfan1645]

you just don't get it do you? It is about Josh. Its about the improvements I see in the offense this year vs last year.

Its about the offense running familiar concepts (to us) and doing well after a four week stress test of what is described as a very complex offensive system to learn.

Doing all of that and succeeding. and based on the numbers we saw in the first four weeks of last year, doing really well.

Period. End of Story. Stop trying to make it out as something its not. Its not a huge epic break down of the offense, with all the differing variables from last year put into whatever god damn context that makes you feel smugly superior and this year parsed and diagnosed so we can have a Cold Hard Football Facts discussion of the X's and O's on a series by series breakdown of every drive while watching the All-22.

The analysis made in this thread can succinctly be summed up in one sentence =
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THEY ARE BETTER!!!!!

I don't need any numbers or stats. We can look at a game last year and a game this year and the eye tests tells me everything I need to know. They don't look lost and clueless this year is the main thing I see before I consider any player or performance. Looking like you have your **** together starts with the coaching and its a vast improvement.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Little kids in grade school learn that when you make an evaluation on a variable you have to have a defined control variable to make a meaningful evaluation of a hypothesis. Like 5th and 6th graders take tests on **** just like this and have to answer "the controlled variable is insufficient to draw a conclusion".

Very basic ****. When your data set is that flawed, the answer isn't to throw your hands up and say "well this is all we have" to make a flawed assessment. It's to acknowledge the reality that the data isn't valuable enough yet to create the circumstances for an evaluation.

Another tidbit, AVP's numbers last year WENT UP when they switched from Brissett to Maye.

I see a difference in talent. Maye is better than Brissett. He even took a step up from last year. The line is holding up a bit better and Maye has more time to work with. Henderson is more dynamic than are other RB's and adds more dimension there. Diggs is being accounted for more in the backfield. Those are things to be positive about.

But if you are comparing McDaniels? Not a whole lot to go by. They still have turn over issues, Henry running the same routes is still the bread and butter for the offense, they generally are still going with a similar RBBC by committee package. It's very difficult to look at McDaniels and say he's in any way the difference here. The players so far are better and that's adding more to the overall package. Also let's be real, we've seen McDaniels for 13 seasons of Josh running the offense, we know he's very talent dependent like most OC's. We've seen extreme highs and we've seen lows with him. Its pretty easy to assess who he is.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but this isn't about Josh. It's about a second year QB, a better line, and some added pieces that are making us less of a one dimensional team that other DC's don't respect.

Sorry, but this is about Josh. Maye is becoming awesome but he wouldn't overcome bad offensive coaching. We're not evaluating a stranger at OC. We saw him win 3 freakin' SB's, lose another where the Pats put up 600 yards of offense, and lead the league in offense several other times when they didn't quite make the SB. Then we also saw him coach up a washed Cam and a rookie Mac. The guy is among the top 3 offensive minds in the league, with more big-game experience than any of them. So when there's a question of who to credit, the answer is obvious.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Mildly hot take. I don't think McDaniels is all that good an OC. Clearly he's decent if he managed to stay in the league for this long. But why does he get a pass and not BB on the Tom Brady effect?

Basically everywhere else he's been an OC or HC the offense has been pretty bad outside of 1 year in LVR where both DeVante Adams and Josh Jacobs absolutely went insane. Then it fell down the drain the next year when he couldn't handle the QB situation.

Look at the stuff Shanahan does with the 49ers, Reid of in KC or the way they open guys up with the Bucs. There are OCs and HCs you clearly feel put their thumb on the scale. McDaniels feels more like just another guy. He runs his system but it depends on having a talented QB. I don't see much creativity on the field to spring guys open or anything used to power the difficulty of execution while still getting solid results.

You have got to be ****ting me with that crap.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s funny to remember there were people here that thing Alex Van Punt was a good hire

 

[condon84]

you just don't get it do you? It is about Josh. Its about the improvements I see in the offense this year vs last year.

Its about the offense running familiar concepts (to us) and doing well after a four week stress test of what is described as a very complex offensive system to learn.

Doing all of that and succeeding. and based on the numbers we saw in the first four weeks of last year, doing really well.

Period. End of Story. Stop trying to make it out as something its not. Its not a huge epic break down of the offense, with all the differing variables from last year put into whatever god damn context that makes you feel smugly superior and this year parsed and diagnosed so we can have a Cold Hard Football Facts discussion of the X's and O's on a series by series breakdown of every drive while watching the All-22.

The analysis made in this thread can succinctly be summed up in one sentence =
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THEY ARE BETTER!!!!!

Even without looking at the numbers, you can see the offense is executing at a high level and certainly playing way better than last year. Not just Maye, but everyone. I swear I don't think that poster watches games.

 

[Ring 6]

Little kids in grade school learn that when you make an evaluation on a variable you have to have a defined control variable to make a meaningful evaluation of a hypothesis. Like 5th and 6th graders take tests on **** just like this and have to answer "the controlled variable is insufficient to draw a conclusion".

Very basic ****. When your data set is that flawed, the answer isn't to throw your hands up and say "well this is all we have" to make a flawed assessment. It's to acknowledge the reality that the data isn't valuable enough yet to create the circumstances for an evaluation.

Another tidbit, AVP's numbers last year WENT UP when they switched from Brissett to Maye.

I see a difference in talent. Maye is better than Brissett. He even took a step up from last year. The line is holding up a bit better and Maye has more time to work with. Henderson is more dynamic than are other RB's and adds more dimension there. Diggs is being accounted for more in the backfield. Those are things to be positive about.

But if you are comparing McDaniels? Not a whole lot to go by. They still have turn over issues, Henry running the same routes is still the bread and butter for the offense, they generally are still going with a similar RBBC by committee package. It's very difficult to look at McDaniels and say he's in any way the difference here. The players so far are better and that's adding more to the overall package. Also let's be real, we've seen McDaniels for 13 seasons of Josh running the offense, we know he's very talent dependent like most OC's. We've seen extreme highs and we've seen lows with him. Its pretty easy to assess who he is.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but this isn't about Josh. It's about a second year QB, a better line, and some added pieces that are making us less of a one dimensional team that other DC's don't respect.

If you can’t look at the operation of this offense this year compared to last year and not see a dramatic difference, you are closing your eyes.
If you can’t see a difference in the level of confidence, the communication, the lack of whining players, the lack of head scratching offensive calls, etc etc you have to betraying to avoid it.

A year ago, the coaching staff was diminishing the QBOTF, and touting Brissett, we were benching Stevenson, then not, then arguing about whether the OC or HC was deciding it, we were watching Douglas throw temper tantrums on the field, we were flip flopping the WR Plodityon week to week and public stating Polk had mental issues.

The coaching operation 12 months later is by far the most significant change in this organization.

 

[Brotherblues]

It’s funny to remember there were people here that thing Alex Van Punt was a good hire

There were some positives in his background. Cleveland rode Flacco to a bit of success while AVP was there. Drew Bledsoe also spoke very highly of AVP.

Outside of drafting Maye, we were just desperate to find anything good about any decisions made that offseason.

 

[maust]

There were some positives in his background. Cleveland rode Flacco to a bit of success while AVP was there. Drew Bledsoe also spoke very highly of AVP.

Outside of drafting Maye, we were just desperate to find anything good about any decisions made that offseason.

Fair to say given the dog's breakfast the rest of the staff was it wasn't hard to project AVP as the best of a week bunch

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Fair to say given the dog's breakfast the rest of the staff was it wasn't hard to project AVP as the best of a week bunch

Agreed, AVP wasn't the problem and he could be a decent OC if he gets another shot. But the coaching operation as a whole was a D at best, too many of them were rookies at it. Night and day to this year.