Injury Creates Starting Opportunity For Former Patriots Quarterback (Mac Jones)

[Rob0729]

I'm still caught up on the intent and purposefully part. Your bordering on treading in hate territory. I just don't understand why anyone would actually think he intentionally would do something like this and you did nothing to explain that?

And whatever happened with Butler we don't know but how can you sit there and honestly say he couldn't put his differences aside when he resigned Butler?

Again he didn't injure Mac and why would he automatically say Mac was the starter if he thought Zappe came in and played as well. The competition was on and Mac couldn't handle it. There was no manufacturing anything it just occurred because of injury and because Mac just wasn't really any better than Zappe. And up until last week this was still true.

For Macs sake hopefully he's managed to grow and definitely looked better than Zappe this time.

It's opinions like this that are just so ridiculous that they are insulting. There is zero logic behind Bill purposely doing things out of vengeance.

When someone suggest something so illogical it brings into question there motives. There are a group of people who come here just to hate BB. If you don't want to get lumped in with them you might want to rethink your terrible opinions.

And Schotenheimer is in the league because he's willing to be Jerry's *****. Bill was never going there and Jerry was never offering. Personally I think Dallas would have been good for him and He'd be good for Jerry but neither were ever accepting that. Jerry could have used someone in the room who he can't think he's smarter than and Bill could have used a GM who would force some skill players down his throat and make him spend a little less frugal.

I am not bordering on anything other than speaking the truth. It is ok to say Belichick was the greatest of all time and at some point he lost it or stopped caring.

I am not putting the blame on Belichick for Mac's injury or Zappe playing well. I am blaming for how he handled the situation after the Bears' game. It was amateurish at best and just down right incompetent at worse. Basically helped to divide the fanbase and the locker room. He needed to start one guy and back him. He started Mac and basically gave the impression that he might really want to start the other guy.

In 2001, there was QB controversy in the making when Bledsoe was healthy. Bledsoe wanted to start and Belichick made it clear that they were staying with Brady. And you know what? The QB controversy never took off. Yes, the Pats were winning, but a lot people inside and outside the building wanted to go back to Drew especially in the Super Bowl.

And there is plenty of logic that Belichick does things out of vengeance. Seriously, we have reports that Belichick refused to talk to his QB or DC coordinator. Belichick by his own words says he is screwing over his own players by not letting Patriots scouts into the building to scout them. Over the years, he done petty things as big FUs to the Jets and the league. He probably started and benched Mac over and over again as a big FU to the Krafts.

 

[Bill Lee]

Now, to throw in some gasoline for the fire, you can say that although the Pats organization under Belichick did an absolutely amazing job developing Brady, they were one of several organizations that might have that success. He would have thrived in all but the terrible few that simply break quarterbacks habitually.

My takeaway from the Brady/Cowherd clip was that there are a lot more terrible OCs and QB coaches in the NFL than just a few,

Given that he said we should rank them 1-32 just like we rank QBs, I think he was hinting that the curve probably looks the same i.e. top quartile really good, bottom quartile really bad, and a whole lot of mediocrity in between. Talent is probably the classic bell-shaped curve (for those who math, a Gaussian distribution), like many other things are..

In turn we I think we can say that those who do not get that top quartile level coaching are at a huge disadvantage to those who do. To me that's the exact point Brady is making in that video.

As for Brady himself, we're all free to re-tell the legend how we see fit, but the bit that always sticks with me is:

Brady once said that as a rookie he peeked at the notebook containing the coaches’ evaluation of him: ‘Everything he does is slow,’ it read. It was Brady’s leap between his rookie and second years that changed the Patriots forever. He has a daily obsession with fixing his deficiencies. After all, that’s his job.

I've seen the video clip where Brady himself tells this story, but can't find it online now so the text comes from this:

Tom Brady draws motivation from negative coaches' notes | FOX Sports

By Pat BradleyTom Brady went from sixth-round afterthought to arguably the greatest quarterback of all time, and it’s generally presumed he did so with an everlasting chip on his shoulder.While that last part seems to be true, it’s apparently not the chip we all thought it was.It’s...

www.foxsports.com

IIRC the way Brady tells the story is that the coaches were doing an evaluation at the end of his rookie year, they stepped out for a second, he read that note about himself and it hit him that what he was doing wasn't cutting it, and he needed to kick it into high gear or his ass would get cut. This is right before **** Rehbein passed away and he then got those 1-on-1s with BB.

Given our context is the development of QBs and MJ in particular, my point is that QBs take time to develop and even Brady didn't show up as a day-1 starter.

I think the development we saw from his own admission that at the end of his rookie season he was marginal to being ready to taking the reins when Bledsoe got knocked out to winning SB36 then SB38 and SB39 is definitely due to his talent and his hard work, but IMO we'll never know if it would ever have happened if he didn't read that evaluation of himself, or if he didn't get the 1-on-1 tutoring he got from BB after **** Rehbein sadly passed away.

I don't think it was pre-destined that he would kick it into high gear, and that he would have had the coaches around him that enabled that to happen. Again, I think this is what he is telling us in this video.

I had a similar life experience. In middle school my evaluation earned me a demotion in math from college-level to 'math for idiots'. I sat in class for a year being pissed off about it, then from that point on I had that "I'll show you" chip on my shoulder. But the main thing was that once I did bear down I saw mathing wasn't as hard as people made it out to be, and if you put in the effort you'd get the reward. I rode that pissed-off energy till the point I ended up with degrees in electrical engineering and computer science, and beyond.

Personally I don't think TB12 himself knew there was a higher gear till after he got that evaluation and till he learned 'the answers to the exam' from BB.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac will never be good in ANY situation. You are absolutely fooling yourself.

Belichick didn't ruin him. Mac was bad long before that season even got going. The only reason they went with Mac after his teammates lost faith in him is because of the Krafts.

We have a huge problem with ownership meddling. if you think any coach could survive the kind of encouraged mutinies we've seen in New England, you're fooling yourself. And to do it to the greatest coach of all time is unforgivable. I look forward to the day that the Krafts sell the team.

Mac was excellent on Sunday. Sure it was the Saints, but Kyler Murray didn't have as good a day against them the week before.

You blame the Krafts like you claim I blame Belichick. The fact they didn't stop Belichick from putting Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense in a crucial year for their young QB tells me that Kraft's interference is overstated. Plus, Kraft sided with Belichick against Brady.

And if Kraft told Belichick that they need to change how did the draft, it was justified. The Pats haven't had a great draft since 2012 (and that was mostly because they drafted Chandler Jones and Hightower in the first round). Belichick should have known that the way he was running the scouting department was antiquated. It wasn't until last year and more so this year that they finally modernized the scouting department to be on par with the teams that draft well like the Eagles.

 

[sb1]

The Krafts interfered with BB so much that Bill was allowed to hire a fcukin DC as his offensive coordinator.

Right.

Yeah forget that noise. Bill has only himself to blame for how things ended in NE. Fact.

 

[signbabybrady]

I am not bordering on anything other than speaking the truth. It is ok to say Belichick was the greatest of all time and at some point he lost it or stopped caring.

I am not putting the blame on Belichick for Mac's injury or Zappe playing well. I am blaming for how he handled the situation after the Bears' game. It was amateurish at best and just down right incompetent at worse. Basically helped to divide the fanbase and the locker room. He needed to start one guy and back him. He started Mac and basically gave the impression that he might really want to start the other guy.

In 2001, there was QB controversy in the making when Bledsoe was healthy. Bledsoe wanted to start and Belichick made it clear that they were staying with Brady. And you know what? The QB controversy never took off. Yes, the Pats were winning, but a lot people inside and outside the building wanted to go back to Drew especially in the Super Bowl.

And there is plenty of logic that Belichick does things out of vengeance. Seriously, we have reports that Belichick refused to talk to his QB or DC coordinator. Belichick by his own words says he is screwing over his own players by not letting Patriots scouts into the building to scout them. Over the years, he done petty things as big FUs to the Jets and the league. He probably started and benched Mac over and over again as a big FU to the Krafts.

Got it, so another hater who pretends the narratives that he makes up doesn't project hate. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[sb1]

I am not putting the blame on Belichick for Mac's injury or Zappe playing well. I am blaming for how he handled the situation after the Bears' game. It was amateurish at best and just down right incompetent at worse. Basically helped to divide the fanbase and the locker room. He needed to start one guy and back him. He started Mac and basically gave the impression that he might really want to start the other guy.

Jones wasn't ready to start against the Bears on MNF. It should have been Zappe starting that game and then go week to week on Jones.

Instead Bill starts Jones, yanks him after the crowd boos, goes to Zappe then gets all wishy washy about who will start the following week egging on a QB controversy as if he was deciding between Joe Montana and Steve Young.

Yes the locker room was divided. That's almost always a sign of lousy coaching and in this case it certainly was.

 

[TommyD4207]

Jones wasn't ready to start against the Bears on MNF. It should have been Zappe starting that game and then go week to week on Jones.

Instead Bill starts Jones, yanks him after the crowd boos, goes to Zappe then gets all wishy washy about who will start the following week egging on a QB controversy as if he was deciding between Joe Montana and Steve Young.

Yes the locker room was divided. That's almost always a sign of lousy coaching and in this case it certainly was.

Or...or...hear me out...

He knew Zappe sucked (he does), and figured Jones gave them the better chance to win, but when Mac came out and Macorkle'd it up, he had no choice.

Bill the GM killing Bill the Coach.

 

[sb1]

Or...or...hear me out...

He knew Zappe sucked (he does), and figured Jones gave them the better chance to win, but when Mac came out and Macorkle'd it up, he had no choice.

Bill the GM killing Bill the Coach.

IIRC Jones said he wasn't 100% going into the game. That's the only reason a coach should need to start the other guy. Zappe was doing ok at the time.

 

[Bill Lee]

I am not bordering on anything other than speaking the truth. It is ok to say Belichick was the greatest of all time and at some point he lost it or stopped caring.

LOL, you walked right into it.

This is the exact thing to say to trigger the Cult of Bill.

They will never admit that Bill lost his fastball, even though the rest of us see it clear as day.

And there is plenty of logic that Belichick does things out of vengeance. Seriously, we have reports that Belichick refused to talk to his QB or DC coordinator. Belichick by his own words says he is screwing over his own players by not letting Patriots scouts into the building to scout them. Over the years, he done petty things as big FUs to the Jets and the league. He probably started and benched Mac over and over again as a big FU to the Krafts.

You missed at least one more major **** move by late-period Bill but we've covered the topic enough already.

 

[signbabybrady]

Mac was excellent on Sunday. Sure it was the Saints, but Kyler Murray didn't have as good a day against them the week before.

You blame the Krafts like you claim I blame Belichick. The fact they didn't stop Belichick from putting Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense in a crucial year for their young QB tells me that Kraft's interference is overstated. Plus, Kraft sided with Belichick against Brady.

And if Kraft told Belichick that they need to change how did the draft, it was justified. The Pats haven't had a great draft since 2012 (and that was mostly because they drafted Chandler Jones and Hightower in the first round). Belichick should have known that the way he was running the scouting department was antiquated. It wasn't until last year and more so this year that they finally modernized the scouting department to be on par with the teams that draft well like the Eagles.

I actually agree Kraft's meddling gets over played. But for me it's not how much but the fact that it occurred at all. We'll likely never know the full depths but bottom line is even a little medelling lead to the mistrust and created the divide.

I can't help but wonder if Kraft chose Stephen as the heir instead of Mayo he could have had a situation where Bill was equally as invested in the future coach as Kraft was instead he chose someone in direct competition with Stephen for promoting and I think Bill handled that professionally and still tried to groom both.

 

[TommyD4207]

IIRC Jones said he wasn't 100% going into the game. That's the only reason a coach should need to start the other guy. Zappe was doing ok at the time.

80% Mac Jones is better than 110% Bailey Zappe.

Kill Bill for having those as his QB options, but I don't fault him for at least trying Mac at first.

 

[sb1]

80% Mac Jones is better than 110% Bailey Zappe.

Kill Bill for having those as his QB options, but I don't fault him for at least trying Mac at first.

Fair. Zappe was also the hotter hand at the time being 2-0 as a starter. Bill had a case to start him if he was looking for one IMO

 

[signbabybrady]

LOL, you walked right into it.

This is the exact thing to say to trigger the Cult of Bill.

They will never admit that Bill lost his fastball, even though the rest of us see it clear as day.



You missed at least one more major **** move by late-period Bill but we've covered the topic enough already.

Did he lose his fastball or did he stop caring? Those are 2 separate things. One I don't agree with the other will cause me to fight everytime.

If all you haters said was he lost it. I wouldn't agree but it wouldn't be complete BS. The problem is you guys then always have to assign some BS to it. For you it's not just that he lost his fastball you've got him intentionally and maliciously tanking Macs career and I'm not sure how to take that other than to assume you have some reason to hold a grudge against him so much so that you're willing to just completely make up things to justify your position.

 

[TommyD4207]

Fair. Zappe was also the hotter hand at the time being 2-0 as a starter. Bill had a case to start him if he was looking for one IMO

And he still didn't. That told me everything I needed to know about Noodle Arm Bailey.

 

[Rob0729]

Got so another hater who pretends the narratives that he makes up doesn't project hate. Thanks for clarifying.

Stop saying I am a hater. I am not. I am speaking the truth. You have a narrative that Mac Jones just sucked and Kraft undermined Belichick and without that Belichick would have been successful.

 

[Rob0729]

Did he lose his fastball or did he stop caring? Those are 2 separate things. One I don't agree with the other will cause me to fight everytime.

If all you haters said was he lost it. I wouldn't agree but it wouldn't be complete BS. The problem is you guys then always have to assign some BS to it. For you it's not just that he lost his fastball you've got him intentionally and maliciously tanking Macs career and I'm not sure how to take that other than to assume you have some reason to hold a grudge against him so much so that you're willing to just completely make up things to justify your position.

Stop caring is probably too harsh in fairness. I would say it would be he put his own personal needs over winning. In 2022, the best thing for this team especially if he didn't have faith in Mac Jones would have been to hire a top up and coming offensive mind who could either develop Mac or minimize liabilities. He chose to go with Matt Patricia because was comfortable for him whether it be that he was concerned that a hotshot OC would leave after a couple of years or might be a threat to his job or he just didn't want to work with someone he didn't know. But it was putting his needs over the needs of the team.

 

[Bill Lee]

You blame the Krafts like you claim I blame Belichick. The fact they didn't stop Belichick from putting Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense in a crucial year for their young QB tells me that Kraft's interference is overstated. Plus, Kraft sided with Belichick against Brady.

And if Kraft told Belichick that they need to change how did the draft, it was justified. The Pats haven't had a great draft since 2012 (and that was mostly because they drafted Chandler Jones and Hightower in the first round). Belichick should have known that the way he was running the scouting department was antiquated. It wasn't until last year and more so this year that they finally modernized the scouting department to be on par with the teams that draft well like the Eagles.

Agree 100%.

We saw Parcells leave in the 90s because he couldn't shop for the groceries. Kraft's reaction was to put in the Carroll / Greir setup that he thought would model the 49ers successful coach/GM setup and instead it modeled a large pile of manure. Therefore when he brought BB on he went the opposite way and gave him more control than any other NFL executive before or since.

Kraft of course was/is fond of Brady, and in turn Brady was/is fond of Kraft, but when push came to shove Kraft didn't want to be tagged as being a meddling owner again and gave Bill more than enough rope to hang himself, much more rope than any other NFL team leader ever got.

Bill's whining about "the owner's son" shows his current total lack of self-awareness. Bill got so much more control for such a long time than anyone else in the league got that he could not cope with any pushback at all, even from the President of the Patriots.

This isn't a Woody Johnson teenage son thing, Johnathan has been a senior team executive from day 1 of the Kraft Era and was, in fact, Bill's boss. If the situation was so bad, why the **** did Bill stay around so long?

 

[TommyD4207]

If the situation was so bad, why the **** did Bill stay around so long?

 

[signbabybrady]

Stop saying I am a hater. I am not. I am speaking the truth. You have a narrative that Mac Jones just sucked and Kraft undermined Belichick and without that Belichick would have been successful.

When you have to make up things to justify your stance your hating.

And stop misrepresenting my opinion too. I've never pretended Bill hasn't made mistakes. You guys just assume because I don't accept your made up narratives that I think he didn't make mistakes.

All I've ever said is that whatever authority he had during the dynasty he deserved the same full control the whole time and to even try and change that was the first mistake. Then I don't feel he ever did enough to get fired. He was in the playoffs 2 of his last 5 seasons (won a SB the season before that) and in over 20 years (01-23) he has one season more than a game below .500.

The rest is just you guys getting mad because I won't accept the bull crap you guys make up. And because I refuse to stay silent and let you guys spew hate.

 

[Rob0729]

When you have to make up things to justify your stance your hating.

And stop misrepresenting my opinion too. I've never pretended Bill hasn't made mistakes. You guys just assume because I don't accept your made up narratives that I think he didn't make mistakes.

All I've ever said is that whatever authority he had during the dynasty he deserved the same full control the whole time and to even try and change that was the first mistake. Then I don't feel he ever did enough to get fired. He was in the playoffs 2 of his last 5 seasons (won a SB the season before that) and in over 20 years (01-23) he has one season more than a game below .500.

The rest is just you guys getting mad because I won't accept the bull crap you guys make up. And because I refuse to stay silent and let you guys spew hate.

What have I made up?

And Belichick didn't do enough to get fired? Any other head coach who put Patricia in charge of the offense and the offense was such a disaster would have gotten fired. That alone was enough to get him fired. In fact, Andy Reid was fired for a similar reason in Philly. And the 2023 season was such a disaster that it would get any head coach fired. In a lot of ways, it was worse than the Mayo experiment disaster.