A little bit of perspective to discuss.

[patfanken]

I happened to see this on my browser that pops up various news and sport stories by a number of outlets from the Huffingtion post, AP and Fox. I happened to come across this one that was titled "Patriots vet might just be doing his last UTA's with the team" or something like that. I thought it meant some vet was going to get cut and I wanted to find out who. But when I opened the article, it was basically saying that this might be the last season for VLowe because of number of young OT's on the roster who could be ready in 26.

You are right, nothing but speculative filler like those proposed trade deals that are always there in every sport. The writer gave a "keen sense of the obvious" thought process which initially made me wish I hadn't bothered to open it. However, it DID provide one little nugget that caused me to go HMMMM.

He gave some of his PFF stats and I again made me wonder what an OLman has to do to gain any respect. Now I saw this a couple of days ago, so my numbers might be off a few either way, but the point remains. Remember this is the guy who was universally despised and reviled here and in the press for doing a horrible job, creating a need that was SO great, that we probably overdrafted a guy just a bit to fill the "gaping" need.

Basically the line was that in 1,038 (or so) snaps Lowe allowed 58 hurries, 11 sacks and 13 penalties. All on the negative end of the list of other OT's So it is easy to see why people would be naturally negative about the player regardless of the coaching situation last season.
HOWEVER just think about it for a second. He allowed a hurry LESS than 6% of the snaps. Sacks at 1% and penalties 1.3%.

Edit: I of curiosity I checked the PFF site and looked up VLowe and came away with different numbers but the same conclusions. They had 803saps, 502 where passing downs, with 5 sacks, 33 hurries and 5 hits. That means he allowed pressures on 6.6% of passing downs, and allowed a sack 1% of the time. His pass blocking #s where average (17th in the league), his run blocking # were poor. And he got a penalty just 3% of the time.

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

 

[Water Boy]

Lowe is definitely everyone's favorite scapegoat. The entire line was a shambles.

 

[Ian]

I happened to see this on my browser that pops up various news and sport stories by a number of outlets from the Huffingtion post, AP and Fox. I happened to come across this one that was titled "Patriots vet might just be doing his last UTA's with the team" or something like that. I thought it meant some vet was going to get cut and I wanted to find out who. But when I opened the article, it was basically saying that this might be the last season for VLowe because of number of young OT's on the roster who could be ready in 26.

You are right, nothing but speculative filler like those proposed trade deals that are always there in every sport. The writer gave a "keen sense of the obvious" thought process which initially made me wish I hadn't bothered to open it. However, it DID provide one little nugget that caused me to go HMMMM.

He gave some of his PFF stats and I again made me wonder what an OLman has to do to gain any respect. Now I saw this a couple of days ago, so my numbers might be off a few either way, but the point remains. Remember this is the guy who was universally despised and reviled here and in the press for doing a horrible job, creating a need that was SO great, that we probably overdrafted a guy just a bit to fill the "gaping" need.

Basically the line was that in 1,038 (or so) snaps Lowe allowed 58 hurries, 11 sacks and 13 penalties. All on the negative end of the list of other OT's So it is easy to see why people would be naturally negative about the player regardless of the coaching situation last season.
HOWEVER just think about it for a second. He allowed a hurry LESS than 6% of the snaps. Sacks at 1% and penalties 1.3%.

Edit: I of curiosity I checked the PFF site and looked up VLowe and came away with different numbers but the same conclusions. They had 803saps, 502 where passing downs, with 5 sacks, 33 hurries and 5 hits. That means he allowed pressures on 6.6% of passing downs, and allowed a sack 1% of the time. His pass blocking #s where average (17th in the league), his run blocking # were poor. And he got a penalty just 3% of the time.

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

I saw the same article and rolled my eyes a little bit. The other thing that same writer forgets is that having a player like Lowe provides valuable depth and starting experience. That's massively important, and he seems to forget Lowe's real role. It's not exactly like teams have multiple elite left tackles on their roster.

Lowe really wasn't meant to be a starter for a full year last year. He was still a developmental player, and in all honesty, he was the bright spot between the two tackles given how much better he did perform at a more difficult position compared to Demontrey Jacobs. The kid worked hard and did what he was asked, and was serviceable enough where they survived the year.

People also forget that Lowe was hurt when he stepped in for Okorafor in week 1 after they swapped him out 12 snaps in. If Campbell were to get hurt and miss a game, I'd be OK with Lowe filling in for one or two games. He's just not a guy you want to see out there for a full season.

I feel like people forget that yes, you need an elite starter when it comes to protecting a quarterback's blindside, but you also need a guy who can at least step in if that starter goes down. Lowe has grown into being that guy, and honestly, good for him. Although again, I'd prefer he doesn't see the field, but if he's forced out there for a game or two, while it's not ideal, they could definitely do worse.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I happened to see this on my browser that pops up various news and sport stories by a number of outlets from the Huffingtion post, AP and Fox. I happened to come across this one that was titled "Patriots vet might just be doing his last UTA's with the team" or something like that. I thought it meant some vet was going to get cut and I wanted to find out who. But when I opened the article, it was basically saying that this might be the last season for VLowe because of number of young OT's on the roster who could be ready in 26.

You are right, nothing but speculative filler like those proposed trade deals that are always there in every sport. The writer gave a "keen sense of the obvious" thought process which initially made me wish I hadn't bothered to open it. However, it DID provide one little nugget that caused me to go HMMMM.

He gave some of his PFF stats and I again made me wonder what an OLman has to do to gain any respect. Now I saw this a couple of days ago, so my numbers might be off a few either way, but the point remains. Remember this is the guy who was universally despised and reviled here and in the press for doing a horrible job, creating a need that was SO great, that we probably overdrafted a guy just a bit to fill the "gaping" need.

Basically the line was that in 1,038 (or so) snaps Lowe allowed 58 hurries, 11 sacks and 13 penalties. All on the negative end of the list of other OT's So it is easy to see why people would be naturally negative about the player regardless of the coaching situation last season.
HOWEVER just think about it for a second. He allowed a hurry LESS than 6% of the snaps. Sacks at 1% and penalties 1.3%.

Edit: I of curiosity I checked the PFF site and looked up VLowe and came away with different numbers but the same conclusions. They had 803saps, 502 where passing downs, with 5 sacks, 33 hurries and 5 hits. That means he allowed pressures on 6.6% of passing downs, and allowed a sack 1% of the time. His pass blocking #s where average (17th in the league), his run blocking # were poor. And he got a penalty just 3% of the time.

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

I have always been a big fan.

 

[KCSVEN]

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

Lowe was a passable Pass Blocking LT and a terrible Run Blocking left tackle. Jacobs and Robinson were terrible pass blocking and run blocking though Robinson showed some plays that were impressive he clearly wasn't ready to start last year, and we shall see if he shows more this year. Lowes below average play would not have been so detrimental if it wasn't for other parts of the line being so atrocious.

You could get by with Lowe in an emergency start or 2, and he showed vast improvement and might improve more with better coaching. I don't see how he becomes a starting LT for an NFL team with the poor run blocking but as a backup LT you could do worse.

I'm not sure you want to count on Marcus Bryant to backup LT but if he impresses, then Lowe could be cut. Lowe probably sticks, especially if they think he can play RT also as a backup.

 

[Ian]

Lowe was a passable Pass Blocking LT and a terrible Run Blocking left tackle. Jacobs and Robinson were terrible pass blocking and run blocking though Robinson showed some plays that were impressive he clearly wasn't ready to start last year, and we shall see if he shows more this year. Lowes below average play would not have been so detrimental if it wasn't for other parts of the line being so atrocious.

You could get by with Lowe in an emergency start or 2, and he showed vast improvement and might improve more with better coaching. I don't see how he becomes a starting LT for an NFL team with the poor run blocking but as a backup LT you could do worse.

I'm not sure you want to count on Marcus Bryant to backup LT but if he impresses, then Lowe could be cut. Lowe probably sticks, especially if they think he can play RT also as a backup.

He played right tackle in 2023:

2023 Patriots Offensive Line Combinations

2023 Patriots Offensive Line Combinations - A week-by-week breakdown of the starting offensive lineman, and the number of combinations used by the Patriots that season.

www.patsfans.com

He's a solid player in the role he's in as a swing tackle. He's sort of a luxury in that regard that not a lot of teams have.

 

[patfanken]

I saw the same article and rolled my eyes a little bit. The other thing that same writer forgets is that having a player like Lowe provides valuable depth and starting experience. That's massively important, and he seems to forget Lowe's real role. It's not exactly like teams have multiple elite left tackles on their roster.

Lowe really wasn't meant to be a starter for a full year last year. He was still a developmental player, and in all honesty, he was the bright spot between the two tackles given how much better he did perform at a more difficult position compared to Demontrey Jacobs. The kid worked hard and did what he was asked, and was serviceable enough where they survived the year.

People also forget that Lowe was hurt when he stepped in for Okorafor in week 1 after they swapped him out 12 snaps in. If Campbell were to get hurt and miss a game, I'd be OK with Lowe filling in for one or two games. He's just not a guy you want to see out there for a full season.

I feel like people forget that yes, you need an elite starter when it comes to protecting a quarterback's blindside, but you also need a guy who can at least step in if that starter goes down. Lowe has grown into being that guy, and honestly, good for him. Although again, I'd prefer he doesn't see the field, but if he's forced out there for a game or two, while it's not ideal, they could definitely do worse.

Ya know, with all the negativity surrounding the LT position last season, I completely forgot that Lowe is only 26 years old and like all players, has the capacity to get better as they garner more experience and/or receive better coaching or play in schemes that suit them better. (cause he NEEDS to improve his run blocking)

The bottom line here is I'm feeling a bit better about our OT depth this season.

 

[Ian]

Ya know, with all the negativity surrounding the LT position last season, I completely forgot that Lowe is only 26 years old and like all players, has the capacity to get better as they garner more experience and/or receive better coaching or play in schemes that suit them better. (cause he NEEDS to improve his run blocking)

The bottom line here is I'm feeling a bit better about our OT depth this season.

He is a free agent after this year, and he's set to make $3.4 million this season, which is the most he's ever made in a single season as a pro from what I can tell on Spotrac:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/77061/vederian-lowe

He's carved out a pretty good niche for himself, and it looks like he's on the verge of finally seeing the financial part of it come to fruition.

 

[rochrist]

I happened to see this on my browser that pops up various news and sport stories by a number of outlets from the Huffingtion post, AP and Fox. I happened to come across this one that was titled "Patriots vet might just be doing his last UTA's with the team" or something like that. I thought it meant some vet was going to get cut and I wanted to find out who. But when I opened the article, it was basically saying that this might be the last season for VLowe because of number of young OT's on the roster who could be ready in 26.

You are right, nothing but speculative filler like those proposed trade deals that are always there in every sport. The writer gave a "keen sense of the obvious" thought process which initially made me wish I hadn't bothered to open it. However, it DID provide one little nugget that caused me to go HMMMM.

He gave some of his PFF stats and I again made me wonder what an OLman has to do to gain any respect. Now I saw this a couple of days ago, so my numbers might be off a few either way, but the point remains. Remember this is the guy who was universally despised and reviled here and in the press for doing a horrible job, creating a need that was SO great, that we probably overdrafted a guy just a bit to fill the "gaping" need.

Basically the line was that in 1,038 (or so) snaps Lowe allowed 58 hurries, 11 sacks and 13 penalties. All on the negative end of the list of other OT's So it is easy to see why people would be naturally negative about the player regardless of the coaching situation last season.
HOWEVER just think about it for a second. He allowed a hurry LESS than 6% of the snaps. Sacks at 1% and penalties 1.3%.

Edit: I of curiosity I checked the PFF site and looked up VLowe and came away with different numbers but the same conclusions. They had 803saps, 502 where passing downs, with 5 sacks, 33 hurries and 5 hits. That means he allowed pressures on 6.6% of passing downs, and allowed a sack 1% of the time. His pass blocking #s where average (17th in the league), his run blocking # were poor. And he got a penalty just 3% of the time.

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

He's not sufficient to be the starting LT, but he's not remotely as bad as people here have liked to make out.

 

[BobDigital]

There are more bait title sports stories now than ever. I come across them every day. I'm now at the point where i ignore every bait title... unless it says a specific name is cut i ignore it and don't click. If it was important it would give more than vague info.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Lowe will be ok as a swing tackle. But you don't want this quality of player as your everyday left tackle. That will get your QB killed. and like it or not a poor or mediocre left tackle has a domino effect on the entire offensive line. There's no need to vilify Lowe but there's also no need to pump his tires. He's just not very good.

Let's look at the PFF grades. Overall, 101/140 tackles. That means there were 100 better tackles in the NFL than Lowe. Consider we have only 32 teams. 64 starting tackles. Being ranked 101st is worse than mediocre. Pass blocking grade 66.9. He was ranked 62nd/140 tackles. So he actually ranked above average. Run blocking grade 45.8. 131st out of 140 tackles. This is bottom of the barrel pathetic. One great way to take pressure off the QB is to run the ball well. That's where he falls well short. I don't mind him as a backup tackle, but I don't want to see Lowe on the starting unit, that's for sure.

 

[signbabybrady]

Lowe will be ok as a swing tackle. But you don't want this quality of player as your everyday left tackle. That will get your QB killed. and like it or not a poor or mediocre left tackle has a domino effect on the entire offensive line. There's no need to vilify Lowe but there's also no need to pump his tires. He's just not very good.

Let's look at the PFF grades. Overall, 101/140 tackles. That means there were 100 better tackles in the NFL than Lowe. Consider we have only 32 teams. 64 starting tackles. Being ranked 101st is worse than mediocre. Pass blocking grade 66.9. He was ranked 62nd/140 tackles. So he actually ranked above average. Run blocking grade 45.8. 131st out of 140 tackles. This is bottom of the barrel pathetic. One great way to take pressure off the QB is to run the ball well. That's where he falls well short. I don't mind him as a backup tackle, but I don't want to see Lowe on the starting unit, that's for sure.

Just to add a little context if there are 64 starters and each one has a backup then that's at least 128 tackles in the league. So 131st is pretty bad but 62nd isn't good but isn't terrible so long as he's not our starter.

 

[DarrylS]

Have to wonder if coaching is a variable here, as Lowe is more of a guy in the middle who might be able to be "coached up" with the right staff...
While he shoulders much of the blame, how much blame can be attributed to crappy coaching.. let's see what happens this year with what Doug Marrone and Josh McD can put together.

 

[State]

Lowe will impress at TC this summer. He’s got a great character. No doubt working his butt off.

His wingspan is at 100%.
Will Campbell’s is at 0%.

Can Lowe overcome his lack of athleticism with better coaching—finally GOOD coaching—grit, and experience?

 

[Clonamery]

Lowe will impress at TC this summer. He’s got a great character. No doubt working his butt off.

His wingspan is at 100%.
Will Campbell’s is at 0%.

Can Lowe overcome his lack of athleticism with better coaching—finally GOOD coaching—grit, and experience? NO!

He was drafted in the 6th round and has 4 years experience. Anyway, some of you love him because he has "great" character so I guess if he never sees the field I'm good with that. Pay him $3.4M to never see the field because he's one of the worst run blocking OT's in the NFL AND if he starts (this is the positive part of the story), he is one of the worst starting pass blocking OT's in the NFL. Seems like a win-win for the Pats.

 

[DC Patriots]

I think we got somewhat spoiled by Scar being able to spin hay into gold with regard to late round OL picks and Tom reading defenses before the snap and getting rid of the ball.

It was probably unrealistic that a 6th round draft pick could be a top half starting NFL LT protecting a rookie QB still learning to read NFL defenses, without a reliable running game or a WR that demanded respect from opposing defensive coordinators. Happy to see Lowe stick as a swing tackle.

That said the OL was such a mess last year that it had to be the top priority in the draft. They were going to get Maye hurt.

 

[Ross12]

As others have said, he is and has been a bit of a scapegoat for an overall bad OL.

He’s not quite starting material but he is also decent as a backup, at least as a pass blocker, and has starting experience. That said, he’s competing for “backup LT/swing tackle” with Wallace, Bryant, Jacobs, and whomever else and I’m sure they’d rather get a young guy in that role with several cheap years left instead of Lowe who is owed $3M this year and then needs a new contract next year. So, he certainly has an uphill battle.

 

[Ring 6]

I happened to see this on my browser that pops up various news and sport stories by a number of outlets from the Huffingtion post, AP and Fox. I happened to come across this one that was titled "Patriots vet might just be doing his last UTA's with the team" or something like that. I thought it meant some vet was going to get cut and I wanted to find out who. But when I opened the article, it was basically saying that this might be the last season for VLowe because of number of young OT's on the roster who could be ready in 26.

You are right, nothing but speculative filler like those proposed trade deals that are always there in every sport. The writer gave a "keen sense of the obvious" thought process which initially made me wish I hadn't bothered to open it. However, it DID provide one little nugget that caused me to go HMMMM.

He gave some of his PFF stats and I again made me wonder what an OLman has to do to gain any respect. Now I saw this a couple of days ago, so my numbers might be off a few either way, but the point remains. Remember this is the guy who was universally despised and reviled here and in the press for doing a horrible job, creating a need that was SO great, that we probably overdrafted a guy just a bit to fill the "gaping" need.

Basically the line was that in 1,038 (or so) snaps Lowe allowed 58 hurries, 11 sacks and 13 penalties. All on the negative end of the list of other OT's So it is easy to see why people would be naturally negative about the player regardless of the coaching situation last season.
HOWEVER just think about it for a second. He allowed a hurry LESS than 6% of the snaps. Sacks at 1% and penalties 1.3%.

Edit: I of curiosity I checked the PFF site and looked up VLowe and came away with different numbers but the same conclusions. They had 803saps, 502 where passing downs, with 5 sacks, 33 hurries and 5 hits. That means he allowed pressures on 6.6% of passing downs, and allowed a sack 1% of the time. His pass blocking #s where average (17th in the league), his run blocking # were poor. And he got a penalty just 3% of the time.

Bottom line, regardless of which numbers you use, VLowe was doing the job pass blocking a VAST majority of the time going against the best rushers, all who are being paid massive amounts of $ for essentially FAILING a vast majority of the time. Think about that for a second and gain some perspective.

I’ve never been a fan of evaluating football and football players with statistics for many reasons.
Adding up cumulative stats in a sport where situation dictates not just success but goal of the play, over 17 games against different opponents makes it hard to consider football stats having the same value as baseball stats.
Applying to this conversation first you have 2 separate stat sources. In the first you used all the snaps the team played and divided hurries sacks and penalties but that. But in the second you used a different source but divided by pass blocking plays. If courser we should be dividing by pas blocking snaps. But why are the numbers different? First there is no real definitive standard for “hurry”. It’s an arbitrary calculation. For example in a “jail break” do you credit the blocker of the first guy to get there with the hurry, or all of them? A fair analysis would be all of them because one players bad block isnt suddenly good because someone else was worse.
How can the data be different on sacks?
According to PFF Patriot OL allowed this number of sacks
Lowe 5
Strange 0
Robinson 4
Jordan 3
Brown 4
Andrews 1
Onwenu 2
Jacobs 9
Wallace 1
Sow. 1
Leverette 1

For a total of 31, yet we were sacked 52 times. So clearly PFF does not charge an OL with a sack in every sack.
Therefore it’s more reasonable that the 11 sack number is more realistic.
Let’s. Split the difference on the hurries and call it 45.
Now you have 11 sacks plus 45 hurries plus 13 penalties totaling 69 in 502 snaps.
But there is more to that. In the modern passing game there are a high percentage of pass plays designed to negate a pass rush by getting the ball out immediately (wr screens, quick slants, etc) so 502 pass block plays isn’t really 502 possible hurries, penalties or sacks.
Length of throw stats used to be available but I am having a hard time finding them even with a PFF subscription. The best estimate I can find, which matches with my memory from when the stats were available is that 22% of passes league wide are behind the line (and there is no doubt we overused that play last year) and another 50% are less than 10 yards. If we estimate that half of those are quick slants, etc and the other half slower developing check downs that’s 47% of pass plays that have little or no risk of sack or hurry, so that 502 pass blocks becomes 266 “risky pass blocks” and now we have 26% of pass plays disrupted by one of the 5 OL which is clearly unacceptable.
And this is very consistent with what our eyes told us.
Further, there is no question the strategy of play calling was definitely affected by this. More often than any team I remember when we got to obvious passing situations we were afraid to pass. We ran draws, wr screens, 5 yard slants on 3rd and 13, dump offs to rb in the flat as the primary target, etc etc.

While I use stats to illustrate why the one you used are misleading, I stand with my original point that stats are not a good way to judge football players, especially without heavy context, but if you turn in the take, it’s clear Lowe was not good.

As far as his role as a backup, there are competing arguments. First, he has experienced. Experienced players tend to make fewer mental mistakes, have less communication issues etc, but can experienced poor player isn’t better than an inexperienced good one.
I don’t agree with the school of thought that a bad starter makes a good backup. But in the NFL with a cap, it’s impossible to have a bunch of good backups.
I would rate backups in this order
1) Young developing player who should be a future starter
2) Aging vet who cant or shouldn’t start any more but still has something in the tank
3) failed starter
4) young guy you just hope can play
Most teams at most positions don’t have the luxury of developing players being on the bench as a backup (do we have one in Wallace?) and those veteran hangers on are few and far between so must teams at most spots end up with a 3 or 4.

My assessment if Lowe last year was that he was among the very worst starting OT in the NFL. This year if he is OT3 I would also consider him one of the worst OT3s in the league. But if Wallace cannot beat him out, that’s the best we will be able to do.

 

[p8ryts]

I never thought Lowe was terrible. I'm not good at evaluating run blocking but he did an adequate job pass blocking. He did not get much help from whoever was at LG and the coaching of the OLine seemed terrible to me. They didn't do a good job helping out the tackles in the game planning. He should be the backup LT unless Marcus Bryant shows more than any of us expect.

 

[The Gr8est]

Have to wonder if coaching is a variable here, as Lowe is more of a guy in the middle who might be able to be "coached up" with the right staff...
While he shoulders much of the blame, how much blame can be attributed to crappy coaching.. let's see what happens this year with what Doug Marrone and Josh McD can put together.

We can only hope that with the addition of Campbell and Wilson, and a new optimistic feeling with the team direction, maybe Scar can’t resist dragging himself out of retirement and lending a hand.