PATRIOTS NEWS OTA's

[mgteich]

I think many of us look at the cost of picking Polk and Baker as the best reason to keep them, but their performance has been underwhelming.

If they are both cut no one will bemoan their loss for long, and the only mention will be from people who live to ***** about our bad picks.

Perhaps we should cut Maye and Stevenson. Their performance was also underwhelming.

The 2024 Offense was truly awful for so many, many reasons. 2024 tape is almost useless. Vrabel has college tape to look at as.

Obviously, Polk isn't a lock. However, if he is judged to be a 4th round talent, then he certainly will be given every opportunity to make the team.

Folks like to say that other then Diggs and Williams, everyone will be given almost an equal opportunity. That sounds great. However, what percentage of TC, inter-team scrimmages and pre-season reps do you think that Baker or Chism will get with the first team? IMO, these reps are critical to making the 53. Having a good showing against the scrubs just doesn't help much.

Yes, players get a chance to move up in the depth chart, but the depth chart does indeed matter.

I think that we start with Diggs, Williams and Douglas as the presumed starters. Hollins, Boutte and Polk are the second string, fighting for 1st team reps. Even that presumes that Bourne is traded.

 

[n1997y]

I think many of us look at the cost of picking Polk and Baker as the best reason to keep them, but their performance has been underwhelming.

If they are both cut no one will bemoan their loss for long, and the only mention will be from people who live to ***** about our bad picks.

Sunk cost fallacy.

For those unfamiliar: Individuals commit the sunk cost fallacy when they continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources (time, money or effort).

Not just individuals. Teams also display such behavior.

 

[signbabybrady]

Sunk cost fallacy.

For those unfamiliar: Individuals commit the sunk cost fallacy when they continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources (time, money or effort).

Not just individuals. Teams also display such behavior.

For me it's not about where they got picked as much as what were the traits and production that led Mayo and Wolf to pick him so high and do you still consider him higher than others based on that potential compared to someone who maybe went undrafted this year or compared to some of our vets who are more proven but not long-term solutions.

If I had to Answer now I might not like my own answer because last year was pretty brutal but fortunately we get training camp to sort through it.

Good luck to all. It's a big group and a lot of spots can be won or lost.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Perhaps we should cut Maye and Stevenson. Their performance was also underwhelming.

The 2024 Offense was truly awful for so many, many reasons. 2024 tape is almost useless. Vrabel has college tape to look at as.

Obviously, Polk isn't a lock. However, if he is judged to be a 4th round talent, then he certainly will be given every opportunity to make the team.

Folks like to say that other then Diggs and Williams, everyone will be given almost an equal opportunity. That sounds great. However, what percentage of TC, inter-team scrimmages and pre-season reps do you think that Baker or Chism will get with the first team? IMO, these reps are critical to making the 53. Having a good showing against the scrubs just doesn't help much.

Yes, players get a chance to move up in the depth chart, but the depth chart does indeed matter.

I think that we start with Diggs, Williams and Douglas as the presumed starters. Hollins, Boutte and Polk are the second string, fighting for 1st team reps. Even that presumes that Bourne is traded.

I’m surprised to see you dismissing the role playing specials plays in making those final WR spots. I think Boutte has a good shot at making the 53, but Polk, Baker, and Bourne don’t play special teams, and imo that’s critical for making the 5th, and possibly 6th WR spots. And I don’t believe the 24’ draft plays any role in finalizing this team. This is a new regime, a new offense, and Chism was brought in to fill a very specific role in MacDaniels offense. We will see who makes the Final Cut but I have Chism making the Final Cut, and Polk, Baker, and Bourne not making the cut.

 

[Uptown]

 

[n1997y]

For me it's not about where they got picked as much as what were the traits and production that led Mayo and Wolf to pick him so high and do you still consider him higher than others based on that potential compared to someone who maybe went undrafted this year or compared to some of our vets who are more proven but not long-term solutions.

If I had to Answer now I might not like my own answer because last year was pretty brutal but fortunately we get training camp to sort through it.

Good luck to all. It's a big group and a lot of spots can be won or lost.

I know what you’re saying. Part of the sunk cost fallacy is the reason that justified the previous payment.

But the other factor that has to go along with that is new information. What do we know now that wasn’t known at the time the decision was made to burn draft capital picking those prospects at that point in the draft?

If we knew then that they would show nothing as rookies would we still draft them where we did?

I wouldn’t.

 

[signbabybrady]

I know what you’re saying. Part of the sunk cost fallacy is the reason that justified the previous payment.

But the other factor that has to go along with that is new information. What do we know now that wasn’t known at the time the decision was made to burn draft capital picking those prospects at that point in the draft?

If we knew then that they would show nothing as rookies would we still draft them where we did?

I wouldn’t.

Certainly not where they we did but is that sample size given everything going on around them last year enough to reset them behind everyone and give them zero chance of fixing it this summer.

I think it's pretty likely at this point that they don't make it but it's definitely worth giving them ample opportunity to prove everyone wrong.

 

[mgteich]

I’m surprised to see you dismissing the role playing specials plays in making those final WR spots. I think Boutte has a good shot at making the 53, but Polk, Baker, and Bourne don’t play special teams, and imo that’s critical for making the 5th, and possibly 6th WR spots. And I don’t believe the 24’ draft plays any role in finalizing this team. This is a new regime, a new offense, and Chism was brought in to fill a very specific role in MacDaniels offense. We will see who makes the Final Cut but I have Chism making the Final Cut, and Polk, Baker, and Bourne not making the cut.

How many ST reps did Bourne take last year? How many did any of the WR's?

Hollins likely will have more ST reps (by far) than any WR did in 2024, perhaps more than all of them put together. Douglas will likely have some also.

I see 4 WR's being active in any game, with Hollins and Douglas sharing some of the ST load. I expect a 3rd TE/STer and FB to be active, with these players playing ST's.

THE ROLE OF THE FIFTH AND/OR SIXTH WR
=============================
For me, there are three potential roles for the 5th and 6th WR's. The first and foremost is an inactive WR who would become active if there is an injury. Who plays if one of the top 3 is out for a couple of games? This player need NOT play ANY special teams.

If there is a 6th WR, the most likely player is someone who isn't ready for prime time and who might be a future contributor (not expected to ever be active). Alternatively, someone might make the 53 as a STer, a WR in name only. This STer would have stiff competition from say Bell and Dial.

 

[n1997y]

Alternatively, someone might make the 53 as a STer, a WR in name only. This STer would have stiff competition from say Bell and Dial.

the Matthew Slater WR position

 

[rkarp1]

starting to see reports that Strange is falling behind at LG
certainly early. certainly LG the spot that is the most up in the air. Vrabel either lighting a fire under Strange or perhaps his injuries have him slipping from an average LG to a below average LG

 

[p8ryts]

How many ST reps did Bourne take last year? How many did any of the WR's?

Hollins likely will have more ST reps (by far) than any WR did in 2024, perhaps more than all of them put together. Douglas will likely have some also.

I see 4 WR's being active in any game, with Hollins and Douglas sharing some of the ST load. I expect a 3rd TE/STer and FB to be active, with these players playing ST's.

THE ROLE OF THE FIFTH AND/OR SIXTH WR
=============================
For me, there are three potential roles for the 5th and 6th WR's. The first and foremost is an inactive WR who would become active if there is an injury. Who plays if one of the top 3 is out for a couple of games? This player need NOT play ANY special teams.

If there is a 6th WR, the most likely player is someone who isn't ready for prime time and who might be a future contributor (not expected to ever be active). Alternatively, someone might make the 53 as a STer, a WR in name only. This STer would have stiff competition from say Bell and Dial.

I don't see Bell or Dial as stiff competition for anyone.

 

[PatsFan2]

Imagine if he turns into a poor man's Ed Reed.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't see Bell or Dial as stiff competition for anyone.

I'll wait until TC before I make Bold predictions. I think some guys we thought nothing of is going surprise: we might have few of those. I wouldn't count Bell out he has Talent.

 

[The Gr8est]

Imagine if he turns into a poor man's Ed Reed.

Maybe a more athletic Duron Harmon?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

the Matthew Slater WR position

Don't knock him, he likely has the highest YPC average (46.0) in NFL history!!!!

 

[Huckleberry1]

How many ST reps did Bourne take last year? How many did any of the WR's?

Hollins likely will have more ST reps (by far) than any WR did in 2024, perhaps more than all of them put together. Douglas will likely have some also.

I see 4 WR's being active in any game, with Hollins and Douglas sharing some of the ST load. I expect a 3rd TE/STer and FB to be active, with these players playing ST's.

THE ROLE OF THE FIFTH AND/OR SIXTH WR
=============================
For me, there are three potential roles for the 5th and 6th WR's. The first and foremost is an inactive WR who would become active if there is an injury. Who plays if one of the top 3 is out for a couple of games? This player need NOT play ANY special teams.

If there is a 6th WR, the most likely player is someone who isn't ready for prime time and who might be a future contributor (not expected to ever be active). Alternatively, someone might make the 53 as a STer, a WR in name only. This STer would have stiff competition from say Bell and Dial.

You just made my case for me. None of those guys, other than a few punt returns by Douglas, contributed on special teams, and we all know from years of experience that they want the back up WR’s, RB’s, and DB’s to contribute on special teams. I don’t think an argument can be made that it’s a positive for them that they don’t contribute on special teams when competing for those back up roster spots, but if you want to make the argument that not contributing on special teams gives Polk, Baker, and Boutte an advantage over the guys who can contribute in all phases of the game by all means go for it. And if you don’t think those guys are in a much more precarious position than they were in last year then go ahead and make that argument as well. I look forward to reading it.

 

[BobDigital]

I wonder how much he'll do though... this seems more likely to be a statement than anything else. It is unlikely he does anything but solo straight line drills at this point.

 

[BobDigital]

 

[mgteich]

You just made my case for me. None of those guys, other than a few punt returns by Douglas, contributed on special teams, and we all know from years of experience that they want the back up WR’s, RB’s, and DB’s to contribute on special teams. I don’t think an argument can be made that it’s a positive for them that they don’t contribute on special teams when competing for those back up roster spots, but if you want to make the argument that not contributing on special teams gives Polk, Baker, and Boutte an advantage over the guys who can contribute in all phases of the game by all means go for it. And if you don’t think those guys are in a much more precarious position than they were in last year then go ahead and make that argument as well. I look forward to reading it.

Yes WE ALL KNOW
============
Hollins will be a top contributor on ST's.

And, yes we could acquire another Slater, one of the best in the league, who is listed as STer.

 

[BobDigital]

Sounds like to me Maye is struggling with the new system and they are trying to keep him and the media calm about it. Can't say that is surprising, this is a hard system to learn. Usually it takes a few months to get into the swing for most new players IIRC. So I won't expect to hear much good in OTAs about Maye. If he is still struggling come preseason game 1 then i'll be more concerned.