PATRIOTS NEWS OTA's

[captain stone]

So many of us have our binkies and there are so many WR's. Many of us will be disappointed.

I'll be disappointed if both sloPolk & half-Baked are still in the building in September.

 

[captain stone]

I would think a player will not make the team because he is a PR'er only, which imo, is what Gunner has been.
sure, in a blowout, put him at WR. in a real pinch, put him at db.
Marcus, Pop. maybe Chism, Larison, Bolden. need to make the team as positional players, who also return punts well.

If Bolden makes the 53, then this front orifice didn't come close to doing a good-enough job helping our defensive backfield.

 

[reflexblue]

I'll be disappointed if both sloPolk & half-Baked are still in the building in September.

 

[patfanken]

My point is that he has the playing style of Welker and Edelman, a slot that can get open in 2 seconds, not that he is those players. I want Maye to have that safety valve for the times when they face a dominant pass rush.

... and that's a good thought. And I think we got that kind of quickness and separation with our 3rd round pick.

BTW- I have nothing against Chism. I'd LOVE for him to end up being good enough to stick, just like I rooted for Danny, Jules, and Jacobi. Wes was developed in Miami and was already an NFL AND receiver and took it to the next level when he came here.

My issue if you want to call it that, is the level of hype he is getting. Nice for him, but he'll need a LOT to go right just to get to the PS.

 

[Huckleberry1]

... and that's a good thought. And I think we got that kind of quickness and separation with our 3rd round pick.

BTW- I have nothing against Chism. I'd LOVE for him to end up being good enough to stick, just like I rooted for Danny, Jules, and Jacobi. Wes was developed in Miami and was already an NFL AND receiver and took it to the next level when he came here.

My issue if you want to call it that, is the level of hype he is getting. Nice for him, but he'll need a LOT to go right just to get to the PS.

Ken, Williams is a guy they are going to use outside the hashes for the most part, Welker, in particular, was used in the slot as Brady’s safety valve, because his short area quickness got him open instantly. Chism isn’t going to outrun defenders, but he also has that short area burst, and the knowledge of how to get open immediately, that’s invaluable when an opponent is in your backfield all day. You’re right in saying that he’s going to have to beat a bunch of guys out, but that’s the role he’s going to have to win to make this team. He has 3 big things going for him to make this team.

1) He gets open reliably.

2) He doesn’t drop anything.

3) He contributes on special teams

Unlike Larison I had no idea who this guy was, and I paid a ton of attention to this draft, but from everything I have seen and heard about since then it’s clear that he is the proverbial “ football player.” The metrics aren’t there, but everything else about him is right on the money. This is why he is drawing the comparisons to guys like Welker, Edelman, and Kupp ( who ran a 4.62 at the combine). And if he is released he won’t make it to the practice squad, that’s why the Patriots gave him the highest UDFA contract in their history ( 3 years 3 million), they were in a bidding war for his services, and one of those bidders will grab him if released. I have to think McDaniels has a very specific role for both Chism and Larison, and that combined with their special teams abilities will give both a very good chance of making the 53.

 

[1960Pats]

I think Giardi published some research that shows that not to be significant in predicting wins. Counter intuitive. But probably because bad teams end up with easier schedules.

The bad team schedule difference can be big, especially if a top team loses their QB and drops to 4th, but that's for only one game. To me, the biggest difference in schedules is which divisions match up against each other. If you have 8 games vs the AFCN & NFCN you have a much tougher schedule than teams playing 8 vs the AFCS & NFCS.

Does the season start soon?

 

[patfanken]

Ken, Williams is a guy they are going to use outside the hashes for the most part, Welker, in particular, was used in the slot as Brady’s safety valve, because his short area quickness got him open instantly. Chism isn’t going to outrun defenders, but he also has that short area burst, and the knowledge of how to get open immediately, that’s invaluable when an opponent is in your backfield all day. You’re right in saying that he’s going to have to beat a bunch of guys out, but that’s the role he’s going to have to win to make this team. He has 3 big things going for him to make this team.

1) He gets open reliably.

2) He doesn’t drop anything.

3) He contributes on special teams

Unlike Larison I had no idea who this guy was, and I paid a ton of attention to this draft, but from everything I have seen and heard about since then it’s clear that he is the proverbial “ football player.” The metrics aren’t there, but everything else about him is right on the money. This is why he is drawing the comparisons to guys like Welker, Edelman, and Kupp ( who ran a 4.62 at the combine). And if he is released he won’t make it to the practice squad, that’s why the Patriots gave him the highest UDFA contract in their history ( 3 years 3 million), they were in a bidding war for his services, and one of those bidders will grab him if released. I have to think McDaniels has a very specific role for both Chism and Larison, and that combined with their special teams abilities will give both a very good chance of making the 53.

Sounds good on paper Huck, but I don't remember seeing one clip or even a comment on Chism's special teams skills in the run up to his hype train.

Again, my hope is that he ends up being the next Wes Welker (and another overnight star, 4 years in the making) But like Welker, Edelman, etc all these guys who beat the odds and became starters, it didn't happen in the first couple of years, let alone in May during OTA's in their rookie years.

In other words, the hype doesn't equal the likely contributions of these guys, ESPECIALLY in their rookie year. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[mgteich]

If Bolden makes the 53, then this front orifice didn't come close to doing a good-enough job helping our defensive backfield.

BOTTOM LINE
The CB situation is an accident waiting to happen, a potential issue which is foreseeable, and can be planned for.
==========================
There are very few posters who think that we need help at CB. There is you, patchick, me and whoever wants to say that this is the case for them.

If all the CB are healthy for the whole year, we are fine with Austin as our backup both inside and out. But that isn't the history of our top 4 CB's. It is very likely that at least one or two will be injured at various time during the year.
=========
SOME here seem just fine depending on Bolden or Dial, or one of the scrubs, being coached by folks who are likely not as good as last year's coaches.

Personally, I would want us to sign lots of help at CB, to compete with Austin for reps as #4 and other(s) to compete for the #5 and/or #6 roster spot. I have a guess at who will get many more meaningful reps than Bolden, Dial and all the scrubs.

I can only hope that Vrabel will get help between now and the trade deadline. ONE injury and we're screwed. Two injuries and one of our safeties will be playing corner. Vrabel has a secret plan. We just don't know what it is.

 

[n1997y]

=========
SOME here seem just fine depending on Bolden or Dial, or one of the scrubs, being coached by folks who are likely not as good as last year's coaches.

I’m sorry, I couldn’t let that go without asking you for some clarification or justification. Can you please give me a brief on why you would say that. I’m not familiar with the DB coaching staff, last year or this, but my evaluation of the hot mess clusterf*** that was last years coaching staff makes me instinctively question your assumption that this years coaches are worse.

 

[mgteich]

I’m sorry, I couldn’t let that go without asking you for some clarification or justification. Can you please give me a brief on why you would say that. I’m not familiar with the DB coaching staff, last year or this, but my evaluation of the hot mess clusterf*** that was last years coaching staff makes me instinctively question your assumption that this years coaches are worse.

To the degree that we had issues at CB last year, it was because of injury. We had excellent DB coaches. One was Belichick's son and the other moved on to BUF I think. The replacements are not considered top coaches. In any case, I haven't heard anyone argue that the coaches at DB this year are better than last year's coaches.
========
ALL of the top 4 had injuries last year: Gonzo, Jones, Jones and Austin (although because of injury Austin was not really the #4).

 

[Zoomnbyu]

BOTTOM LINE
The CB situation is an accident waiting to happen, a potential issue which is foreseeable, and can be planned for.
==========================
There are very few posters who think that we need help at CB. There is you, patchick, me and whoever wants to say that this is the case for them.

If all the CB are healthy for the whole year, we are fine with Austin as our backup both inside and out. But that isn't the history of our top 4 CB's. It is very likely that at least one or two will be injured at various time during the year.
=========
SOME here seem just fine depending on Bolden or Dial, or one of the scrubs, being coached by folks who are likely not as good as last year's coaches.

Personally, I would want us to sign lots of help at CB, to compete with Austin for reps as #4 and other(s) to compete for the #5 and/or #6 roster spot. I have a guess at who will get many more meaningful reps than Bolden, Dial and all the scrubs.

I can only hope that Vrabel will get help between now and the trade deadline. ONE injury and we're screwed. Two injuries and one of our safeties will be playing corner. Vrabel has a secret plan. We just don't know what it is.

I'd suggest "bottom line" isn't that most posters disagree with needing more depth at CB, it's more:

1. Prioritizing - there are still more pressing needs than depth at CB including at the depth level.

2. Further ahead - how much further ahead in quality, coaching, depth, FA, and draft this team is ahead

3. We haven't hit TC yet. There will be all kinds of depth pieces cut that have potential plus availability on PSs.

 

[n1997y]

To the degree that we had issues at CB last year, it was because of injury. We had excellent DB coaches. One was Belichick's son and the other moved on to BUF I think. The replacements are not considered top coaches. In any case, I haven't heard anyone argue that the coaches at DB this year are better than last year's coaches.
========
ALL of the top 4 had injuries last year: Gonzo, Jones, Jones and Austin (although because of injury Austin was not really the #4).

Actually looking a bit more closely it seems to me that one of the new guys, Scott Booker, is pretty good. The other, Justin Hamilton, played in the NFL for two years as a DB and has been coaching for about 15 years, mostly college. He broke into the NFL working for Vrabel in 2023. So I’m feeling a better description of him would be “unproven”. I was going to say “unknown” but he worked for Vrabel in Tennessee so he’s not unknown to his boss.

I’m not going to panic about our depth at CB. We have two very good to elite CBs as the top two starters, and I think we’re in much better shape than most other teams there. Slot might be more of a question but I think Marcus Jones is going to be solid there. For depth I’m not as pessimistic as you are about Austin, Bolden, and Dial, plus we don’t know who else might emerge or be signed between now and the start of the season. I’m also considering the rest of the D and how that can (I’m expecting it will) benefit the DBs. So I think you’re overreacting, a lot.

I’m also going to tell you that if CB depth is the main thing to worry about now, the way you break it down, things aren’t bad.

 

[Uptown]

 

[rkarp1]

BOTTOM LINE
The CB situation is an accident waiting to happen, a potential issue which is foreseeable, and can be planned for.
==========================
There are very few posters who think that we need help at CB. There is you, patchick, me and whoever wants to say that this is the case for them.

If all the CB are healthy for the whole year, we are fine with Austin as our backup both inside and out. But that isn't the history of our top 4 CB's. It is very likely that at least one or two will be injured at various time during the year.
=========
SOME here seem just fine depending on Bolden or Dial, or one of the scrubs, being coached by folks who are likely not as good as last year's coaches.

Personally, I would want us to sign lots of help at CB, to compete with Austin for reps as #4 and other(s) to compete for the #5 and/or #6 roster spot. I have a guess at who will get many more meaningful reps than Bolden, Dial and all the scrubs.

I can only hope that Vrabel will get help between now and the trade deadline. ONE injury and we're screwed. Two injuries and one of our safeties will be playing corner. Vrabel has a secret plan. We just don't know what it is.

I have also posted about the CB's
health obviously. I have also questioned Marcus Jones. wouldn't surprise me if Austen gets snaps ahead of him in the slot as a big slot CB. I also think we see 3 safeties on the field a lot.
heavy at S, light at CB
if a vet CB shakes loose over the summer, I think the Pats show interest
there are also quite a few still available in free agency

 

[Huckleberry1]

Sounds good on paper Huck, but I don't remember seeing one clip or even a comment on Chism's special teams skills in the run up to his hype train.

Again, my hope is that he ends up being the next Wes Welker (and another overnight star, 4 years in the making) But like Welker, Edelman, etc all these guys who beat the odds and became starters, it didn't happen in the first couple of years, let alone in May during OTA's in their rookie years.

In other words, the hype doesn't equal the likely contributions of these guys, ESPECIALLY in their rookie year. That's all I'm trying to say.

Ken, none of those you mentioned became “ stars” as rookies but they certainly gained notice immediately, that’s how they were able to stick around. And it was Belichick who turned to Wes Welker on the sideline and asked him “ ever heard of Wally Pipp,” after Edelman took a punt return the distance on his first touch in his his first pre season game. So spend some time checking Chism out, he was one of the best kick returners in college football, 21 yards a return, and a good punt returner as well. And as pretty much everyone knows teams build their special teams units with the guys who make up the backside of their respective units. The 4th and 5th WR’s, the back up corners , linebackers, and safeties, as well as some back up linemen. So those competing for the remaining roster spots always have the advantage if they are good special teams players. Both Larison and Chism are very good special teams players, and have the advantage over guys like Polk, Baker, and even Antonio Gibson when the final roster cuts come. Right now I believe Bourne and Gibson will be traded for late round picks, Baker and Polk will be released, and Larison and Chism will make the 53.

Scouting Report:​

Efton Chism III is a wide receiver who thrives on route-running precision, quickness, and reliable hands. His above-average height and stout, compact build provide him with the toughness needed to battle against physical defenders, while his developed lower half provides him a strong base for quick movements and balance after the catch.

Chism’s change of direction and lateral movement skills are among his biggest strengths. His hyperactive feet and quickness allow him to create separation at all three levels of the field. While he lacks top-end speed, he compensates by effectively varying his tempo and leverage to manipulate defenders and open passing windows.


His route tree is well-developed, allowing him to be a threat on short, intermediate, and deep routes. He consistently finds soft spots in zone coverage and uses his body positioning and sharp cuts to gain separation against man coverage. His efficient release package enables him to defeat press coverage, and he shows the technique and patience needed to win off the line of scrimmage.

As a pass-catcher, Chism has strong hands and good tracking ability, making him a dependable target in contested situations. However, his lack of elite length limits his ability to consistently high-point passes, making him more effective in underneath and intermediate routes rather than as a vertical threat.

Chism provides additional value on special teams, particularly as a punt returner, where his vision, elusiveness, and toughness allow him to be a consistent playmaker in the return game. His ability to create yards after the catch also enhances his overall value in an offensive system that prioritizes quick passing concepts and playmaking in space.

​

 

[mgteich]

I'd suggest "bottom line" isn't that most posters disagree with needing more depth at CB, it's more:

1. Prioritizing - there are still more pressing needs than depth at CB including at the depth level.

I have always disagreed with this analysis.

IMO, we have enough money to sign competition for as many depth spots as we need. Just because there is more of a need at say TE or OL is NOT a reason no not to address CB.

Apparently, we have decided that we don't need competition for roster spots at CB. We are confident that Bolden, Dial and the rest will meet the need. Personally, I don't understand.

 

[jdlboot14]

After what we've seen of Polk & Baker - I'd rather Chism make the 53.
Boutte is much more prepared and trustworthy than P & B.
Pop is Pop - probably still lead the team in receptions this year.
Williams will certainly be a contributor and deep/out X guy
Bourne WILL be a major piece with all he brings (no matter how many idiots want him traded)
Hollins likely to stick due to size and clutch experience

Diggs may start on PUP (or in jail) - Not very confident in him being a central piece at this point in time.
Chism would be a good 6th WR - backup Pop in that role (and maybe return punts)

Polk & Baker could both hit the PS - I don't think anyone is lurking for them.

 

[The Gr8est]

After what we've seen of Polk & Baker - I'd rather Chism make the 53.
Boutte is much more prepared and trustworthy than P & B.
Pop is Pop - probably still lead the team in receptions this year.
Williams will certainly be a contributor and deep/out X guy
Bourne WILL be a major piece with all he brings (no matter how many idiots want him traded)
Hollins likely to stick due to size and clutch experience

Diggs may start on PUP (or in jail) - Not very confident in him being a central piece at this point in time.
Chism would be a good 6th WR - backup Pop in that role (and maybe return punts)

Polk & Baker could both hit the PS - I don't think anyone is lurking for them.

I think many of us look at the cost of picking Polk and Baker as the best reason to keep them, but their performance has been underwhelming.

If they are both cut no one will bemoan their loss for long, and the only mention will be from people who live to ***** about our bad picks.

 

[Clonamery]

I think many of us look at the cost of picking Polk and Baker as the best reason to keep them, but their performance has been underwhelming.

If they are both cut no one will bemoan their loss for long, and the only mention will be from people who live to ***** about our bad picks.

He smells like team spirit.