What’s Left To Do?

[Huckleberry1]

Let's not put the chicken before the egg. FIRST, let's hope our Rookie Campbell succeeds at the LT position. We can worry about injuries another day. Lowe will be the backup because we have spent our draft capital to address LT already and he at least has played here before even if he wasn't very good.

We will see if Lowe can beat out Marcus Bryant for the back up LT position?

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I thought the title of the OP is "what is there left to do?", not rehash another 50 pages about Campbell's wingspan and if it makes him likely or unlikely to be able to play LT.

Now I was NOT a big fan of the pick precisely because of the wingspan issue (not the arm length). Given what was available with the pick and the unknown offers we MIGHT have accepted to move down, the bottom-line Will Campbell was the guy we picked.

Here is what I DO know. Campbell was drafted to be a LT, not a G. I know that there were multiple guys who pored through every frame of 3 years of film on the guy and charted EVERY play, made note of who his opponent was, and determined the result.

Scouting is hard and you have to know what you are doing. 50 years ago I had a friend who worked part time for the Celtics as a scout. The very old amongst us would know his name, Rick Wietzman, who briefly played for the C's and won title under Bill Russell. Well anyway occasionally I would accompany him to games to scout players. Well to me, all the guys looked great to me. Fast, quick, skilled, etc Later, he would take the time to actually break down the players in detail and I began to start and see how they actually would fair at the next level and see their limitations. Scouting is a real skill and it takes time and experience to understand what to look for in players at the highest level of the game.

One thing that I found in my long coaching career I learned never to be surprised by how little I know and how much there was to learn. To be a good football coach, you HAVE to have a good-sized ego, but you also have a degree of humility and be able to admit there is ALWAYS something else to learn. In fact, that was part of the fun of it.

Campbell is here to be a LT and he will be given a season or two to prove it. So regardless of what you might thing about his wingspan the kid is going to be a LT for the near future. So granted he has a physical limitation to overcome, but he also has a lot of EXCEPTIONAL athletic ability to help him do that.

Rambling again. Let me get back on point. The "wingspan" part of this discussion is OVER and really shouldn't be mentioned again until the OL is in full pads and hitting some time in July. You know. The time when we can ACTUALLY see if the kid can block anyone.

NOW the time is to see who is still out there to fill in the roster so the best possible 90 players are there to start camp. There are still so excellent "names" out there at every position that will obviously improve the overall quality of the roster at every position. Want to improve the edge rush. Matt Judon, ZSmith, SBarrett, JClowney, and others are all out there. JSimmons is still out there if FS is an issue, So is DJ Humphries if you want to move Campbell to G right away.

You also have to balance your overall team building to who you bring in. Contending teams tend to bring in older players for a making a run THIS season or 2. Building teams tend to go more for younger players. Guys who are not playing to their athletic potential and hope a change of scenery and system will bring out the promise they have yet to fulfill. Guys like OLB KCaission fit that profile and there are others like him still out there.

THAT is what we should be discussing with OP like this, not regurgitating Will Campbell's arm length and rehashing personal issues with Eliot Wolf.

wow, rick weitzman! I used to go to BC basketball camp as a kid and weitzman was one of counselors/coaches. As I recall, he really liked Dave Cowens. This was back in the BC days of Bob Zuffeloto and Tom Davis.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Then there should be an example of a talented OT who failed solely due to wingspan.
It’s like saying there has never been a good Chinese LT so being Chinese means you can’t be a LT.
If no one can give a reason why wingspan is an advantage or a detriment the it’s just an old wives tale. You can’t imagine a reason but are scratching for a way to validate it. That seems to be what everyone is doing.

Some posts are written to sound logical, but contain no logic at all. Well done.

 

[Ring 6]

Some posts are written to sound logical, but contain no logic at all. Well done.

Yes how logical is it to ask how a particular physical metric would impact a football player rather than just assume it must.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yes how logical is it to ask how a particular physical metric would impact a football player rather than just assume it must.

It's a very fair question to ask. But also such a minute and nuanced thing it's hard to discuss on a message board. Kind of need visual aids to work through it. As hardcore as we/I think we are as fans this gets into a technical level that's just hard to write about at least for me.

I can't help but wonder if a slightly larger wingspan or arm length could have helped SEA when Hightower tackled Lynch just before the Butler play. Might longer arms/wingspan given the OL enough leverage to hang on a split second longer and he scores?

 

[Wozzy]

Marcus Jones has been very uneven. he was picked on (successfully) a lot last year.

This is false.

 

[rkarp1]

This is false.

opposing QB's had a rating of 97% last year throwing at him. his rookie season the opposing QB rating was 75%

 

[Wozzy]

opposing QB's had a rating of 97% last year throwing at him. his rookie season the opposing QB rating was 75%

Provide a citation for your stats… they seem fake. Last year’s defense was also a dumpster fire.

A cursory check on Marcus Jones brought up this Sports Illustrated article. They have Jones listed as a breakout player for 2025. Here’s the quote:

“No, it's not because the Pats might use him on offense (enough of that already). Even with the Patriots signing Carlton Davis to put alongside of Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones should earn considerable playing time next season due to his ability to play the nickel corner role. Jones played in 64 percent of New England's defensive snaps in 14 games last year, finishing with 58 tackles, an interception, a couple of fumble recoveries and 10 passes defended. The 26-year-old has a good nose for the ball and even managed to post a 70.2 overall grade at Pro Football Focus in 2024, posting a respectable 67.1 grade in coverage. The addition of Davis will also put less pressure on Jones, which could allow for him to have the best year of his career next fall.”

So, stop making up fake stats just because you made a silly prediction about him being cut.

He’s entering year 4 with an All Pro nod under his belt. And SI brings up a salient point, with another big CB in Davis (competent coaching) Jones will be able to play his natural slot position with Jon Jones out of the picture.

 

[rkarp1]

Provide a citation for your stats… they seem fake. Last year’s defense was also a dumpster fire.

A cursory check on Marcus Jones brought up this Sports Illustrated article. They have Jones listed as a breakout player for 2025. Here’s the quote:

“No, it's not because the Pats might use him on offense (enough of that already). Even with the Patriots signing Carlton Davis to put alongside of Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones should earn considerable playing time next season due to his ability to play the nickel corner role. Jones played in 64 percent of New England's defensive snaps in 14 games last year, finishing with 58 tackles, an interception, a couple of fumble recoveries and 10 passes defended. The 26-year-old has a good nose for the ball and even managed to post a 70.2 overall grade at Pro Football Focus in 2024, posting a respectable 67.1 grade in coverage. The addition of Davis will also put less pressure on Jones, which could allow for him to have the best year of his career next fall.”

So, stop making up fake stats just because you made a silly prediction about him being cut.

He’s entering year 4 with an All Pro nod under his belt. And SI brings up a salient point, with another big CB in Davis (competent coaching) Jones will be able to play his natural slot position with Jon Jones out of the picture.

Marcus Jones Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Marcus Jones. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Wozzy]

Marcus Jones Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Marcus Jones. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Vague.

 

[rkarp1]

Vague.

in other words you are wrong
there it is in black and white
opposing QB rating while targeting Marcus

 

[maust]

Vague.

BS. Numbers don't lie, people do. There's nothing at all 'vague' about these stats:



You can blow smoke all you like but a right guy would apologize for saying "So, stop making up fake stats..."
Interpret the underlying cause of those numbers as you will but they are not 'fake' or 'made up' they are right there, from an unimpeachable source. Shame on you for resorting to Andy-ish BS like 'vague'

 

[Wozzy]

in other words you are wrong
there it is in black and white
opposing QB rating while targeting Marcus

You use PFF like a textbook, then PFF tells you that you’re wrong about Marcus Jones… and PFF is suddenly no longer correct. Laughable.

 

[Wozzy]

BS. Numbers don't lie, people do. There's nothing at all 'vague' about these stats:



You can blow smoke all you like but a right guy would apologize for saying "So, stop making up fake stats..."
Interpret the underlying cause of those numbers as you will but they are not 'fake' or 'made up' they are right there, from an unimpeachable source. Shame on you for resorting to Andy-ish BS like 'vague'

The Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last season after having one of the best the year prior. Their pass defense was particularly bad.

Jones played their third fewest CB snaps. Christian Gonzalez and Jon Jones played the most snaps… do those guys suck also?

This is a lot like people telling us Stephon Gilmore was a poor signing in 2017 because the Buffalo defense stunk.

 

[maust]

The Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last season after having one of the best the year prior. Their pass defense was particularly bad.

Jones played their third fewest CB snaps. Christian Gonzalez and Jon Jones played the most snaps… do those guys suck also?

This is a lot like people telling us Stephon Gilmore was a poor signing in 2017 because the Buffalo defense stunk.

Look at that, more smoke #asexpected it's almost like I was some kinda Nostradumbass. OFC last years numbers have to largely be considered an abberation for any Pats player. That doesn't alter the fact you said @rkarp1 made up fake stats, clearly he did not. Why are you incapable of owning that ****?

 

[rkarp1]

The Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last season after having one of the best the year prior. Their pass defense was particularly bad.

Jones played their third fewest CB snaps. Christian Gonzalez and Jon Jones played the most snaps… do those guys suck also?

This is a lot like people telling us Stephon Gilmore was a poor signing in 2017 because the Buffalo defense stunk.

your posts tells me my opinion is wrong. my posted stats are false. my source is questionable.
you then blame the entire secondary and for some odd reason bring Gilmore into the conversation.

just admit you are wrong dude. no need to dance. no need to lie.

 

[Wozzy]

Look at that, more smoke #asexpected it's almost like I was some kinda Nostradumbass. OFC last years numbers have to largely be considered an abberation for any Pats player. That doesn't alter the fact you said @rkarp1 made up fake stats, clearly he did not. Why are you incapable of owning that ****?

I asked him to provide a citation, said it sounded madeup.

It’s not smoke. Defense flows from the front back… basic football. A bad defensive front with little to no pressure leads to a bad backfield.

Rkarp told me James White sucked and was in danger of being cut back in 2014 because Shane Vereen was ahead of him on the depth chart. He told us last year Okorafor, Leverett and Jordan were good free agent signings on the offensive line. He makes silly proclamations all the time and time almost always proves them wrong.

 

[Wozzy]

your posts tells me my opinion is wrong. my posted stats are false. my source is questionable.
you then blame the entire secondary and for some odd reason bring Gilmore into the conversation.

just admit you are wrong dude. no need to dance. no need to lie.

I said you were wrong that Marcus Jones was poor in coverage and he got picked on. The entire backfield was one of the worst in the league and arguably had the best CB in the entire NFL in Gonzalez and a perennial stud in Jon Jones starting. Stats can be misleading. A bad unit doesn’t equate to bad individual players, it’s a team sport.

 

[rkarp1]

I said you were wrong that Marcus Jones was poor in coverage and he got picked on. The entire backfield was one of the worst in the league and arguably had the best CB in the entire NFL in Gonzalez and a perennial stud in Jon Jones starting. Stats can be misleading. A bad unit doesn’t equate to bad individual players, it’s a team sport.

and I said Okorafor was a low cost signing, that a change of scenery may be good for him. with a big need at OT, worthwhile gamble by the Pats.
I never said he was good

 

[Wozzy]

and I said Okorafor was a low cost signing, that a change of scenery may be good for him. with a big need at OT, worthwhile gamble by the Pats.
I never said he was good

If I call him a jag and you argue he is a good signing you called him good. Same with Leverett and Jordan… all three got cut in-season for sucking.

If you agree with me, don’t argue vehemently that I’m wrong.