The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[lancerman]

Just do the same Math for everyone else if you want to erase 2/3s I don't know what value that list would bring but it would be equivalent.

And as far as credit goes for the Dynasty Brady was the QB that gets more credit. I'd probably say %21 Brady, %19 Bill, and %60 the rest of the players and coaches. That's what you Brady v Bill Nuts Os don't get you can't separate the two they are forever linked as a duo.

Okay take Bill's closest peer in the modern era. Andy Reid. He has 19 seasons without Mahomes as a QB. Still better than Bill

Brady won without Bill, Bill didn't without Brady. You can absolutely separate them on that basis.

Go step a further, if you replace Bill with Tomlin but keep Brady and the same roster, do they win multiple SB's? Absolutely. Reid? Absolutely. Dungy? Absolutely. Arians? Absolutely.

Does Bill do much better in Pittsburgh without a QB like Brady being excellent? Does he do much better in Indy? Idk because either he's having lopsided offensively driven teams or he's pissing off Peyton Manning by focusing more on building a defense. Maybe I could buy he wins an extra ring in Green Bay than McCarthy under the same circumstances.

But point is, Brady earned the benefit by proving he didn't need Bill to win. Bill didn't because he nosedived without Brady no matter what stage in his career.

In 2020, I would have given Bill the benefit of the doubt. I truly thought the prevalent narrative that Cleveland was just growing pains and a truly bad org. But the next four years proved that the winning was reliant on Brady and the culture was reliant on winning.

Are the two better together? Yeah. But one is greater than the other and means more apart from the other. 3 plus 7 still equals 10. That doesn't mean 7 isn't a much more significant part of that equation. Brady was the 7. Most coaches might be a 1 or 2 and we benefitted from having the rare 3. But that only gets you so far in this league.

 

[signbabybrady]

Okay take Bill's closest peer in the modern era. Andy Reid. He has 19 seasons without Mahomes as a QB. Still better than Bill

Brady won without Bill, Bill didn't without Brady. You can absolutely separate them on that basis.

Go step a further, if you replace Bill with Tomlin but keep Brady and the same roster, do they win multiple SB's? Absolutely. Reid? Absolutely. Dungy? Absolutely. Arians? Absolutely.

Does Bill do much better in Pittsburgh without a QB like Brady being excellent? Does he do much better in Indy? Idk because either he's having lopsided offensively driven teams or he's pissing off Peyton Manning by focusing more on building a defense. Maybe I could buy he wins an extra ring in Green Bay than McCarthy under the same circumstances.

But point is, Brady earned the benefit by proving he didn't need Bill to win. Bill didn't because he nosedived without Brady no matter what stage in his career.

In 2020, I would have given Bill the benefit of the doubt. I truly thought the prevalent narrative that Cleveland was just growing pains and a truly bad org. But the next four years proved that the winning was reliant on Brady and the culture was reliant on winning.

Are the two better together? Yeah. But one is greater than the other and means more apart from the other. 3 plus 7 still equals 10. That doesn't mean 7 isn't a much more significant part of that equation. Brady was the 7. Most coaches might be a 1 or 2 and we benefitted from having the rare 3. But that only gets you so far in this league.

Bill won twice before Brady and went to a third. Brady had been coached by Bill for 20 years before he went to the Bucs and won. He doesn't do that without Bill's prior coaching.

 

[lancerman]

Bill won twice before Brady and went to a third. Brady had been coached by Bill for 20 years before he went to the Bucs and won. He doesn't do that without Bill's prior coaching.

Brady won without Bill in the exact same role as a starting QB.

Pretending a coordinator role is the same as HC and rings won in both positions is the equivalent as a starting QB winning in two different places is disingenuous.

That's like saying Matt Patricia is close to being on the same tier as Bill Parcells and that Josh McDaniels might be greater than Bill Walsh.

 

[XLIX]

Man did I call it or what?

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady won without Bill in the exact same role as a starting QB.

Pretending a coordinator role is the same as HC and rings won in both positions is the equivalent as a starting QB winning in two different places is disingenuous.

That's like saying Matt Patricia is close to being on the same tier as Bill Parcells and that Josh McDaniels might be greater than Bill Walsh.

I never said it's the same role or equal but it's impressive and it occurred before Brady. Where as Brady's 7th only occurs after 20 years of Bill's coaching. So it's just a fact that Bill won before Brady but Brady didn't before Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

Man did I call it or what?

You're lying again

 

[lancerman]

I never said it's the same role or equal but it's impressive and it occurred before Brady. Where as Brady's 7th only occurs after 20 years of Bill's coaching. So it's just a fact that Bill won before Brady but Brady didn't before Bill.

Brady literally won in college before Bill. If we are counting coordinator titles, we should count Brady playing the same position at another level.

Bill never won as a HC without Brady. Brady won as a QB before and after Bill.

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady literally won in college before Bill. If we are counting coordinator titles, we should count Brady playing the same position at another level.

Bill never won as a HC without Brady. Brady won as a QB before and after Bill.

You tell me what was more impactful 12 passes in 97 or the Defensive game plan that sits in the NFL's Hall of Fame? But I'm not taking anything away that was a huge accomplishment for TB too. So they each have 8 and are basically equal giving a slight edge to Brady for actually being the one with the ball which is my overall point for years now.

 

[lancerman]

You tell me what was more impactful 12 passes in 97 or the Defensive game plan that sits in the NFL's Hall of Fame? But I'm not taking anything away that was a huge accomplishment for TB too. So they each have 8 and are basically equal giving a slight edge to Brady for actually being the one with the ball which is my overall point for years now.

Brady played. Bill held a clipboard and took cues from the HC. Comparing HC to coordinator is ridiculous. Talking about a gameplan being in the HOF is silly, there's virtually no standard to that kind of stuff being in there. Cleats and uniforms that were part of one off interesting plays are displayed in the HOF. There's like a dozen Super Bowl game plans in the HOF.

Is David Tyree a better player because his helmet is in the HOF? Paul Brown's Ball Warmers are in the HOF.

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady played. Bill held a clipboard and took cues from the HC. Comparing HC to coordinator is ridiculous. Talking about a gameplan being in the HOF is silly, there's virtually no standard to that kind of stuff being in there. Cleats and uniforms that were part of one off interesting plays are displayed in the HOF. There's like a dozen Super Bowl game plans in the HOF.

Is David Tyree a better player because his helmet is in the HOF? Paul Brown's Ball Warmers are in the HOF.

You're making those comparisons not me I'm merely pointing out Bill won his first SB when Brady was still playing little league.

 

[lancerman]

You're making those comparisons not me I'm merely pointing out Bill won his first SB when Brady was still playing little league.

Bill did not win a SB as a HC. We are talking about him as a HC and what his value was vs Brady as a QB.

Acting like we are talking about the same thing to pad the count for Bill on something nobody is debating or cares about is silly. It's pretty much worthless to this discussion. It's even funnier because Bill Belichick is like the only SB winning HC that has fanboys running around to talk about titles he got as a coordinator. You never hear people act like Sean Payton is a multi time SB winner because he was a coordinator on the Giants. You never hear people act like Siefert is more accomplished than Walsh because he had more rings than him when you count coordinator titles.

One guy has people acting like anyone cares about it.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill did not win a SB as a HC. We are talking about him as a HC and what his value was vs Brady as a QB.

Acting like we are talking about the same thing to pad the count for Bill on something nobody is debating or cares about is silly. It's pretty much worthless to this discussion.

We are talking about whatever we want to talk about. I've been clearly stating it's a fact Bill has 8 SB rings Brady has 7.

 

[lancerman]

We are talking about whatever we want to talk about. I've been clearly stating it's a fact Bill has 8 SB rings Brady has 7.

It's a fact that Bill could not win a SB as a HC without Tom Brady and Brady could win as a QB without Bill.

Bringing up his coordinator rings comes off as desperate more than anything else and actually makes the argument for him look weaker.

It's even worse when you are arguing that it's cherry picking that we are holding him to 11 seasons as a HC without Brady but you want to talk him up for years where he wasn't a HC at all.

It just undermines your entire point and comes off as reaching hard.

 

[lancerman]

Considering Bill put it on his boat, soon people are going to start to argue that Bill won a ring after Brady left.

 

[signbabybrady]

It's a fact that Bill could not win a SB as a HC without Tom Brady and Brady could win as a QB without Bill.

Bringing up his coordinator rings comes off as desperate more than anything else and actually makes the argument for him look weaker.

It's even worse when you are arguing that it's cherry picking that we are holding him to 11 seasons as a HC without Brady but you want to talk him up for years where he wasn't a HC at all.

It just undermines your entire point and comes off as reaching hard.

I'm not reaching I'm just pointing out facts.

They won 6 together making them each the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time.

Brady won a SB without Bill but after 20 years of having been coached by him. I don't bring up the 2 Bill won before Brady to say that either is more or less impressive than the other you can make that distinction if you want but regardless of how you decide to weigh it Bill did still as a fact win 2 SBs without Brady.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[Bill Lee]

 

[Bill Lee]

 

[Bill Lee]