What’s Left To Do?

[State]

How short is Will Campbell’s wingspan? The third string QB who stands only 6’2” has a longer one.

Stumpy’s wingspan is so puny even the Boston Patriots would agree.

He might be a huge improvement over last year’s LT in the run game. But in the passing game? Not so much. Maybe even Vederian Lowe is better.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Vederian Lowe will start at LT this season at some point. Lowe-Campbell-Bradbury-Robinson-Moses.

I’m making a big assumption about Onwenu being let go when he shows up to TC out of shape and at 375+. Like he has the two previous times.

And assuming old man Moses will play and play well is a double-barreled shotgun of unicorns and rainbows dancing in the air.

Ozzy Trapilo being drafted at 59 hurts. Hurts bad.

Otherwise known as CHERRY-PICKING. Campbell was the best tackle in this class, and his sack and pressure rates were exceptional. Your love for the worst athlete in pro football, Verdarian Lowe, is as insane as your claim that Spencer Rattler would be a better QB than Drake Maye. For a guy so invested in draft analysis you really do come up with some horrible takes.

 

[Huckleberry1]

How short is Will Campbell’s wingspan? The third string QB who stands only 6’2” has a longer one.

Stumpy’s wingspan is so puny even the Boston Patriots would agree.

He might be a huge improvement over last year’s LT in the run game. But in the passing game? Not so much. Maybe even Vederian Lowe is better.

Anyone who values arm length over athletic ability should stick to basketball.

 

[Huckleberry1]

How short is Will Campbell’s wingspan? The third string QB who stands only 6’2” has a longer one.

Stumpy’s wingspan is so puny even the Boston Patriots would agree.

He might be a huge improvement over last year’s LT in the run game. But in the passing game? Not so much. Maybe even Vederian Lowe is better.

State, I realize your take that Spencer Rattler is a better QB than Drake Maye, and you had to eat a front end loader of **** because of it, but doubling down on an equally bad Verdarian Lowe over Will Campbell take is also a really bad idea. Unless of course you are trying to set a record for historically bad takes.?

 

[State]

Your love for the worst athlete in pro football, Verdarian Lowe, is as insane as your claim that Spencer Rattler would be a better QB than Drake Maye.

That’s interesting. You’re right. I like VD Lowe. Great teammate and family man. I want to bet you $5 that Rattler will throw for more yards than Maye or have a higher QB rating this upcoming season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That’s interesting. You’re right. I like VD Lowe. Great teammate and family man. I want to bet you $5 that Rattler will throw for more yards than Maye or have a higher QB rating this upcoming season.

Tell you what State, let’s make it $100, to the Dog Rescue Charity of the winner’s choice, and either of us can provide photographic proof we donated the money. Sound good?

And let’s go with yards, because a guy could play 1 game and have a better QB rating.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That’s interesting. You’re right. I like VD Lowe. Great teammate and family man. I want to bet you $5 that Rattler will throw for more yards than Maye or have a higher QB rating this upcoming season.

A great family, good guy. I’m happy for him that he’s a good person. But he’s also one of the worst athletes in the NFL, and a terrible left tackle.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Otherwise known as CHERRY-PICKING. Campbell was the best tackle in this class, and his sack and pressure rates were exceptional. Your love for the worst athlete in pro football, Verdarian Lowe, is as insane as your claim that Spencer Rattler would be a better QB than Drake Maye. For a guy so invested in draft analysis you really do come up with some horrible takes.

Huck,

You are CHERRY-PICKING too. @State posted Campbell's performance against "NFL bound" EDGE players and it is much less inspiring than his overall performance. Do you think Campbell's performance against EDGE players from East Podunk Univ. is valuable? Do you think averaging in a large number of snaps against players that will never play in the NFL is important? Or should we consider Campbell's reps against NFL bound players? It is a post of value by @State .

I am OK with the Campbell pick, but there is reason for concern. Drafting a guard with the #4 pick overall is not a great use of draft capital. It is like your support of Wolf, dying on a hill for no reason.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Huck,

You are CHERRY-PICKING too. @State posted Campbell's performance against "NFL bound" EDGE players and it is much less inspiring than his overall performance. Do you think Campbell's performance against EDGE players from East Podunk Univ. is valuable? Do you think averaging in a large number of snaps against players that will never play in the NFL is important? Or should we consider Campbell's reps against NFL bound players? It is a post of value by @State .

I am OK with the Campbell pick, but there is reason for concern. Drafting a guard with the #4 pick overall is not a great use of draft capital. It is like your support of Wolf, dying on a hill for no reason.

I obviously disagree. 4 sacks in 3 years at left tackle in the SEC comes down to much more that 3-4 guys. And I think Campbell is a left tackle, not a guard, and his athletic ability far outweighs his arm length. And ftr One, using an entire career is not cherry picking, selecting a few performances to try and make a point is, and you just made that exact point in referencing Wolf’s 24’ Draft. .

And the person “ dying on a hill” is actually State, who is trying to say that Verdarian Lowe is a better left tackle than Will Campbell, which is as valid as his Spencer Rattler > Drake Maye take.

 

[JoeSixPat]

As Vrabel is from the BB coaching and philosophy tree, no doubt he remembers well how the Patriots would often find some quality depth from among the cuts of the other teams.

I think BB himself would remark about that being the 3rd phase of the offseason - with free agency being one, the draft being another.

So even though everyone has their draft rosters and projections for the practice squad at this point, as the teams pare down their rosters we'll see some surprise cuts on the Patriots and some surprise pickups from among the roster cuts of other teams.

That's a great place to pick up some experienced depth for when the injury bug inevitably hits, even if you know they're not going to pro bowlers

 

[Huckleberry1]

As Vrabel is from the BB coaching and philosophy tree, no doubt he remembers well how the Patriots would often find some quality depth from among the cuts of the other teams.

I think BB himself would remark about that being the 3rd phase of the offseason - with free agency being one, the draft being another.

So even though everyone has their draft rosters and projections for the practice squad at this point, as the teams pare down their rosters we'll see some surprise cuts on the Patriots and some surprise pickups from among the roster cuts of other teams.

That's a great place to pick up some experienced depth for when the injury bug inevitably hits, even if you know they're not going to pro bowlers

Unlike last year there is a problem in who we would want to see cut, as there are a bunch of young players who are currently in the end phase of their units, and they are guys we are rooting to become significant players down the road. It’s the same thing when there is talk of signing a guy like Clowney for a season, but I don’t think most would want that at the expense of Bradyn Swinson. I really haven’t looked at the entire roster yet, but where last year we would have been chomping at the bit to add veteran cuts, this year it will be much more questionable. And I actually think final cuts will be tough.

 

[patfanken]

I thought the title of the OP is "what is there left to do?", not rehash another 50 pages about Campbell's wingspan and if it makes him likely or unlikely to be able to play LT.

Now I was NOT a big fan of the pick precisely because of the wingspan issue (not the arm length). Given what was available with the pick and the unknown offers we MIGHT have accepted to move down, the bottom-line Will Campbell was the guy we picked.

Here is what I DO know. Campbell was drafted to be a LT, not a G. I know that there were multiple guys who pored through every frame of 3 years of film on the guy and charted EVERY play, made note of who his opponent was, and determined the result.

Scouting is hard and you have to know what you are doing. 50 years ago I had a friend who worked part time for the Celtics as a scout. The very old amongst us would know his name, Rick Wietzman, who briefly played for the C's and won title under Bill Russell. Well anyway occasionally I would accompany him to games to scout players. Well to me, all the guys looked great to me. Fast, quick, skilled, etc Later, he would take the time to actually break down the players in detail and I began to start and see how they actually would fair at the next level and see their limitations. Scouting is a real skill and it takes time and experience to understand what to look for in players at the highest level of the game.

One thing that I found in my long coaching career I learned never to be surprised by how little I know and how much there was to learn. To be a good football coach, you HAVE to have a good-sized ego, but you also have a degree of humility and be able to admit there is ALWAYS something else to learn. In fact, that was part of the fun of it.

Campbell is here to be a LT and he will be given a season or two to prove it. So regardless of what you might thing about his wingspan the kid is going to be a LT for the near future. So granted he has a physical limitation to overcome, but he also has a lot of EXCEPTIONAL athletic ability to help him do that.

Rambling again. Let me get back on point. The "wingspan" part of this discussion is OVER and really shouldn't be mentioned again until the OL is in full pads and hitting some time in July. You know. The time when we can ACTUALLY see if the kid can block anyone.

NOW the time is to see who is still out there to fill in the roster so the best possible 90 players are there to start camp. There are still so excellent "names" out there at every position that will obviously improve the overall quality of the roster at every position. Want to improve the edge rush. Matt Judon, ZSmith, SBarrett, JClowney, and others are all out there. JSimmons is still out there if FS is an issue, So is DJ Humphries if you want to move Campbell to G right away.

You also have to balance your overall team building to who you bring in. Contending teams tend to bring in older players for a making a run THIS season or 2. Building teams tend to go more for younger players. Guys who are not playing to their athletic potential and hope a change of scenery and system will bring out the promise they have yet to fulfill. Guys like OLB KCaission fit that profile and there are others like him still out there.

THAT is what we should be discussing with OP like this, not regurgitating Will Campbell's arm length and rehashing personal issues with Eliot Wolf.

 

[Ring 6]

Huck,

You are CHERRY-PICKING too. @State posted Campbell's performance against "NFL bound" EDGE players and it is much less inspiring than his overall performance. Do you think Campbell's performance against EDGE players from East Podunk Univ. is valuable? Do you think averaging in a large number of snaps against players that will never play in the NFL is important? Or should we consider Campbell's reps against NFL bound players? It is a post of value by @State .

I am OK with the Campbell pick, but there is reason for concern. Drafting a guard with the #4 pick overall is not a great use of draft capital. It is like your support of Wolf, dying on a hill for no reason.

Wouldn’t everything he has done on the football field be relevant? And hr was excellent against everyone.
And he is a LT not a G

 

[Ring 6]

That’s interesting. You’re right. I like VD Lowe. Great teammate and family man. I want to bet you $5 that Rattler will throw for more yards than Maye or have a higher QB rating this upcoming season.

Lowe might be great person, but he stinks as an NFL OT. The latter is what matters as a fan.

 

[Ring 6]

How short is Will Campbell’s wingspan? The third string QB who stands only 6’2” has a longer one.

Stumpy’s wingspan is so puny even the Boston Patriots would agree.

He might be a huge improvement over last year’s LT in the run game. But in the passing game? Not so much. Maybe even Vederian Lowe is better.

Can you show me some clips of NFL LTs making blocks by extending there arms horizontally and using their fingers to execute the block?

 

[WhatJustHappened]

You're an idiot State.

I came right out and said it.
Enjoy you chump.

 

[patfanken]

Can you show me some clips of NFL LTs making blocks by extending there arms horizontally and using their fingers to execute the block?

Excellent point. You can also ask the question, what are the wingspans of the rushers he will be going against?

It occurred to me that we never ask that question. We only seem to compare his 4-5 inch gap with other offensive tackles. Well Campbell won't be blocking any OT's this season, he will be blocking mostly fast guys that he will out-weigh by 50-70lbs. They will all be faster and quicker than him, but he will have advantages too. He will know the count. He will know what everyone else is doing too. He will know if the ball is coming out quickly. He will know where the QB "should" be. And more importantly, at least at some point in the season, he will know where all the rest of his OL brothers are going to be and where his help is coming from.

Remember this isn't rocket science here. He doesn't have to pancake the guy. He just has to give his QB 3-4 seconds and a clear lane to throw the ball. He doesn't have to win forever.

Also, here's where coaching comes in, especially with Josh. He's had a lot experience with limited LT's before. He knows how to help those guys get a hand from a TE or RB who just bumps a guy while going out on his route to add a second or 2 to the QB's time to throw. Josh is not going to leave the kid hanging, especially at the start of his career (or any of the other OLmen for that matter)

There are other things you can do to help your OL that we couldn't do last year much. Running a no huddle fast paced offense really hampers a D. No chance for subbing, rushers running out of gas, No chance of getting complex rushes set up.

We couldn't do that last year with a rookie QB and coaches, and an injury riddled OL with zero continuity happening. We might not be able to do it much, especially early in the season, given all the new faces on the roster and coaching rooms. But it IS a solid weapon for the offense to use ... when they are ready.

 

[Wozzy]

Vederian Lowe sucks, you don’t draft a tackle with the first overall pick if Lowe is good… wtf are you people smoking?

 

[BobDigital]

Glaring needs: a LT, a future starting RT, a stud Y TE, a young vertical threat X receiver, and a slot CB to compete with injury-prone Marcus Jones.

I think time will demonstrate Will Campbell is a can’t miss LG, not a LT. His lack of length, especially his godawful wing span, will make him too susceptible to inside moves as he overcompensates setting outside. He measures at ZERO percentile for wing span—over an inch shorter than the 6’2” third string QB— and 7 percentile for arm length. Stumpy will try hard and has the athleticism but…what happens when he’s got a slightly sprained ankle? And his footwork noticeably regressed while he was at LSU.

Karen Guregian asks the central question:

But why did we draft him at #4? Our TE room needed more than FA CJ Dipre.

Most of Vederian Lowe’s whiffs last year were a result of his lack of athleticism. Players were occasionally able to get around him on the outside. But his length is very good.

But an even worse situation for Drake Maye would be successful inside moves by a DE. Maye would get hit even faster.

It is important to make clear distinctions between long term needs and short term needs. I haven't made a full thread about it but alluded the the importance of building our core. That being the inner circle of key players. The short short list. The guys that when you look back at a team 10 or 15 years down the line are the guys you really remember.

We certainly need to rebuild that core and have hopefully made some strides towards it. Building that core is needed, but should not be confused with year to year needs. In this post your kind of interchanging the two. The thing is though that year to year needs can be addressed fairly quickly, core needs can not. I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just not sure if we should be talking about RT as a need or not in the context of this particular thread. Cause RIGHT NOW we have a good, proven RT.

 

[BobDigital]

As for the Will Campbell pick. At this point i don't think there is anything else to do but wait and see. The pick has been in for a while and no take backs allowed. If he plays LT long term at a decent level it is a good pick, if he played Guard at a near all pro level, still a reach. You don't draft guards at #4 no matter how good they are. I some people would still defend such a pick, but not many.

No one knows for sure how he will look and questions about a draft pick's ability are always fair. Especially when one is outside the box in certain ways like Campbell is. However a few things need to be made clear. There would not have been a starting LT there at 38. There would have been guys you hope could start. The last true starting LT went off the board at 32. So either you have to give the Pats credit for reading the room right and knowing they couldn't wait on the position, or you have to give them blame for not addressing it in FA (though they did try... but did they try hard enough? Fair question). Probably both depending on how it ends up.

Another thing that needs to be said, is this looked like a relatively weak LT class. It isn't like there was another guy to pick there that they passed on for no good reason. You can argue Campbell was maybe not the best option, that's fair enough. Bur you can't argue someone was CLEARLY better as a plug and play LT this year. Josh Simmons if he was 100% healthy would have a very strong case, but he wasn't. And it isn't like they were the only team with concerns on him. He fell to 32nd. A lot of teams passed on him and took other LT options.

Anyone else they could have picked either would have had to flip sides which doesn't always work out (and typically RTs go against easier competition anyway) or have had other issues. So i can't hate the pick from a practical perspective until i know 100% for a fact it doesn't work the way we want it to (that being for a long term LT).

TLDR? Let's wait and see... nothing else to do now.