A Cautionary Note

[Real fan 02]

I do think we are in a similar spot to 01 but I would not say we have a grizzled veterans on our D. I think the longest tenured Patriot is Dugger drafted in 2020.

I think 40 is referring to how in 01 we had 20 plus FAs and draft picks as the roster needed a re-haul. Obviously we know Drew was a season vet.. and GOAT was unknown by the NFL until he took over that season.

I mentioned in past posts the similarities are.. when Bill took over he brung in Pioli, wise, and I think Romeo was already here right?? Bill established the culture and what type of players he wanted.

Vrabel brings in Cowden, Streicher, and Williams.. reestablishing the culture and adding some veterans. Both similar in age. Coming from previous HC jobs.

 

[PatsFan2]

Please don't take this thread to be a negative one. Let's just call it a realists response to the positivity of the past few months.

Getting the positivity out of the way first. This has been a borderline perfect off-season for the team. Short of missing out on Ronnie Stanley and Chris Godwin, neither of which were the team's fault, there is almost nothing to be negative about in terms of roster construction from such a lowly starting point. I'm also excited by the coaching staff at the top and hopefully we've seen a corner turned on drafting.

Being a realist however, there are some things which give me pause (in no particular order):

1. Christian Barmore. The defensive line could be very different depending on whether he's fully healthy or not.

2. Depth. The roster transformation has been outstanding but depending on draft picks, the roster is still fairly shallow. This isn't something to blame Vrabel & co for, they could only do so much, but injuries will still be a problem.

3. The Draft Picks. No-one could be happier than I in what we did in the draft and UDFA, but let's face it, it's not very common for every draft pick to hit.

4. The interior OL. We didn't do much to address this. Hopefully Jared Wilson hits straight away either at guard or center because neither Strange (how's his injury status?) or Bradbury (better run blocker than pass blocker) move the needle in a positive direction for me.

5. Morgan Moses. Loved the signing but he does miss games. Did we do enough to back him up? There's a fair amount of pressure on Caeden Wallace here.

6. New playbooks/coaching. This speaks for itself. Things will take a while to bed in.

7. The WR Corps. We've made some good additions but we still have a receiving corps that is still in the lower half of WR power rankings. Diggs and Kyle Williams will both have to produce to make this corps even average in quality.

As I said, this thread isn't meant to be a negative one. If everything goes perfectly for us next season, I do think we have a shot at the playoffs, but the realist in me says that things rarely go that perfectly. I am more positive about 2026 and beyond, I'm just preparing myself for 2025 to underwhelm compared to current, understandable, expectations.

IF Three or Four from that 2024 Draft Class pan out a lot of your questions will be answered ie... Polk - Wallace - Baker - Robinson and Jaheim Bell. IF three from that Bunch bring it in year two we are in business. That's one of the weirdest returns i've ever seen from a Draft early on.

 

[Real fan 02]

IF Three or Four from that 2024 Draft Class pan out a lot of your questions will be answered ie... Polk - Wallace - Baker - Robinson and Jaheim Bell. IF three from that Bunch bring it in year two we are in business. That's one of the weirdest returns i've ever seen from a Draft early on.

Twin.. I like bell... i feel like he could be effective under Josh.. AVP didn't know how he was on the roster last season.. Bell has potential.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think 40 is referring to how in 01 we had 20 plus FAs and draft picks as the roster needed a re-haul. Obviously we know Drew was a season vet.. and GOAT was unknown by the NFL until he took over that season.

I mentioned in past posts the similarities are.. when Bill took over he brung in Pioli, wise, and I think Romeo was already here right?? Bill established the culture and what type of players he wanted.

Vrabel brings in Cowden, Streicher, and Williams.. reestablishing the culture and adding some veterans. Both similar in age. Coming from previous HC jobs.

Romeo was with the Jets under BP and here under BP. In 2000 he was actually on the Browns and then Bill brought him back here in 01.

Vrabel definitely seems to be carving out his own culture and doing it quickly. I think he's the kind of guy that people want to fight for and I fully expect this to permeate the team very quickly.

 

[Water Boy]

I take it we're rolling with the same cursed stink ass uniforms. That alone is concerning.

 

[Wozzy]

I would just caution that health is the great equalizer in pro football, without that even the most talented teams can fail.

Next is coaching, development and execution, even athletically gifted teams can fail if talent fails to learn or understand… execute.

I can remember early in the 2018 season and the two Super Bowl seasons prior there were many people on Patriots fan forums telling us those teams didn’t have any talent, they were too old at positions… at the end of the season with very few personnel additions those teams improved and won it all.

This team has to stay healthy, develop the young players and execute at a high level. A lack of talent is no excuse now, they have the talent.

 

[PatsFan2]

Twin.. I like bell... i feel like he could be effective under Josh.. AVP didn't know how he was on the roster last season.. Bell has potential.

Twin...I like him too I think Bell's ceiling is Jonnu Smith. McDaniels have some talent to work with; Jaheim Bell can Run the Football too swiss army knife type player.

 

[PatsFan2]

I would just caution that health is the great equalizer in pro football, without that even the most talented teams can fail.

Next is coaching, development and execution, even athletically gifted teams can fail if talent fails to learn or understand… execute.

I can remember early in the 2018 season and the two Super Bowl seasons prior there were many people on Patriots fan forums telling us those teams didn’t have any talent, they were too old at positions… at the end of the season with very few personnel additions those teams improved and won it all.

This team has to stay healthy, develop the young players and execute at a high level. A lack of talent is no excuse now, they have the talent.

Good Post: we were so poorly Coached on so many levels last year: it was embarrassing. The Krafts spent Big Bucks on Coaching this year and I expect it t payoff.

 

[Real fan 02]

Twin...I like him too I think Bell's ceiling is Jonnu Smith.

I like that comparison twin... we need to start developing our own guys.. wasn't bell undrafted??

 

[PatsFan2]

I like that comparison twin... we need to start developing our own guys.. wasn't bell undrafted??

Seventh Rounder.

 

[BobDigital]

I agree we shouldn't be too high on this team as it all won't go well, but I am very optimistic for a number of reasons.

#1 we should hit on all top 4 picks.

Campbell for all the concerns about him seems poised to at least not be a bust. Too much tape, traits are good. The question is how good of an LT will he be? If he's not better than whatever we had last year I'd be shocked.

RB is typically a safe pick that high and with that much tape and skill they are usually plug and play. Centers and all interior ol typically transition well. And considering he could have easily gone in round 2.... Not many centers of that caliber bust.

As for Williams he is clearly in the most danger of busting due to his position and some things about his game. But I just don't see it happening due to the law of averages. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. We've done worse than that clock. Someone literally could not repeat our performance on missing on highly drafted WRs if they tried over the past 20+ years if forced to stick semi close to agreed upon rankings. Something has to give. This streak has gone on way too long. It simply is not sustainable. Will Williams be an absolute top tier elite? IDK. But he will play up to his talent and above his pick.

As for the next 3 defensive picks. I could see any or all busting... hope not. I think after a number of bad draft we get very few bust. on the top 7 picks.

#2 We have good depth nearly everywhere for most of our players (providing the absolute top talent stays healthy). Depth was brought up as an issue. It always is and no team can afford to lose their star players. IMO the question never is 'what do you do if a key guy goes down'. Cause you just suffer a big lose. You can't REALLY have depth for key guys. That is why they are key guys. Where you have depth is your 2nd tier guys. The only players they can't afford to lose are Maye, Either of the OTs (they need to fix this and get some depth there) and Diggs. They can absorb any single defensive loss for a time, though some will hurt more than others. Gonzo going down be bad. But Davis would help stop the bleeding as would our safety depth. Barmore or Milton going down be bad. But we still have the other DL depth to help out and a good coverage unit. Losing Williams would hurt, but at least we have Diggs, Hunter, Henderson and other options to get the ball too. Henderson hurts, but we have Stevenson and the new offensive weapons.. ect..

The only spots where things really go to **** is Maye... Diggs (cause we need him to be our #1... Williams isn't ready for that and may never be) and any of the starting OL outside of the other guard spot who is MAYBE Strange. We have no option if Moses/Campbell go down. Maybe they can work around Onwenu if Wilson can play Guard.. doubt it but maybe... but we can't lose a tackle. Just can't. Gonzo is an almost go to **** loss... but with more of a 3 safety look maybe Davis and co would be able to stop the bleed.. He is almost a 5th guy you can't lose, but not like the others imo.

Overall though they have good insurance for a number of slightly less important guys and some very important ones (if short term).

Also a lot has been made about this being a new team playing together. That can be tough at first.. but many of the best teams in recent memory where kind of thrown together. It can work with good coaching leadership.

 

[Real fan 02]

Romeo was with the Jets under BP and here under BP. In 2000 he was actually on the Browns and then Bill brought him back here in 01.

Vrabel definitely seems to be carving out his own culture and doing it quickly. I think he's the kind of guy that people want to fight for and I fully expect this to permeate the team very quickly.

Yes.. he was the D line coach with parcells in the 90s... he and pioli and saban were with bb in Cleveland?? Without a doubt SBB.. I love what Vrabel has created and the charge that he has done for the entire organization. 5 years of mediocrity I feel like is in the rear window now. This roster is now well coached and not completely talented devoided... it's nice to have try hards... but you need some Dawgs to win in the NFL. We have some.

 

[PatsFan2]

I like that comparison twin... we need to start developing our own guys.. wasn't bell undrafted??

Really hope Bell worked on the Blocking aspect of his game; that could keep him on the Field.

 

[Real fan 02]

Really hope Bell worked on the Blocking aspect of his game; that could keep him on the Field.

Yes becuase Hooper is a good blocker and he could learn alot from him... I like bell to really show something this camp and pre season.

 

[Wozzy]

Good Post: we were so poorly Coached on so many levels last year: it was embarrassing. The Krafts spent Big Bucks on Coaching this year and I expect it t payoff.

Poorly coached and there wasn’t enough talent, especially on the offensive line and after Barmore came up injured.

 

[Real fan 02]

IF Three or Four from that 2024 Draft Class pan out a lot of your questions will be answered ie... Polk - Wallace - Baker - Robinson and Jaheim Bell. IF three from that Bunch bring it in year two we are in business. That's one of the weirdest returns i've ever seen from a Draft early on.

Twin.. if we can get polk and baker to contributing players then that's a win in itself. Robinson will be here likely he'll end up replacing Moses when his contract is up. I really, really like what Henderson and will bring as pure talent and speed.

 

[Real fan 02]

Good Post: we were so poorly Coached on so many levels last year: it was embarrassing. The Krafts spent Big Bucks on Coaching this year and I expect it t payoff.

What?? Me??

 

[PatsFan2]

I agree we shouldn't be too high on this team as it all won't go well, but I am very optimistic for a number of reasons.

#1 we should hit on all top 4 picks.

Campbell for all the concerns about him seems poised to at least not be a bust. Too much tape, traits are good. The question is how good of an LT will he be? If not better than whatever we had last year I'd be shocked.

RB is typically a safe pick that high and with that much tape and skill they are usually plug and play. Centers and all interior ol typically transition well. And considering he could have easily gone in round 2.... Not many centers of that caliber bust.

As for Williams he is clearly in the most danger of busting due to his position and some things about his game. But I just don't see it happening due to the law of averages. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. We've done worse than that clock. Someone literally could not repeat our performance on missing on highly drafted WRs if they tried over the past 20+ years if forced to stick semi close to agreed upon rankings. Something has to give. This streak has gone on way too long. It simply is not sustainable. Will Williams be an absolute top tier elite? IDK. But he will play up to his talent and above his pick.

As for the next 3 defensive picks. I could see any or all busting... hope not. I think after a number of bad draft we get very few bust. on the top 7 picks.

#2 We have good depth nearly everywhere for most of our players (providing the absolutely top talent stays healthy). Depth was brought up as an issue. It always is and no team can afford to lose their star players. IMO the question never is 'what do you do if a key guy goes down'. Cause you just suffer a big lose. You can't REALLY have depth for key guys. That is why they are key guys. Where you have depth is your 2nd tier guys. The only players they can't afford to lose are Maye, Any the OTs (they need to fix this and get some depth there) and Diggs. They can absorb any single defensive loss for a time, though some will hurt more than others. Gonzo going down be bad. But Davis would help stop the bleeding as would our safety depth. Barmore or Milton going down be bad. But we still have the other, some DL depth to help out and a good coverage unit. Losing Williams would hurt, but at least we have Diggs, Hunter, Henderson and other options to get the ball too. Henderson hurt, but we have Stevenson and the new offensive weapons.. ect..

The only spots where things really go to **** is Maye... Diggs (cause we need him to be our #1... Williams isn't ready for that and may never be) and any of the starting OL outside of the other guard spot who is MAYBE Strange. We have no option if Moses/Campbell go down. Maybe they can work around Onwenu if Wilson can play Guard.. doubt it but maybe... but we can't lose a tackle. Just can't. Gonzo is an almost go to **** loss... but with more of a 3 safety look maybe Davis and co would be able to stop the bleed.. He is almost a 5th guy you can't lose, but not like the others imo.

Overall though they have good insurance for a number of slightly less important guys and some very important ones (if short term).

Also a lot has been made about this being a new team playing together. That can be tough at first.. but many of the best teams in recent memory where kind of thrown together. It can work with good coaching leadership.

We stole Kyle Williams he's a very talented dude and he will show it barring injuries. The reasons for the misses was BB fondness for articulate interviews...which throws out the window what the payer did on the Football Field: BB's mo. The reason we can feel good about this Draft is that; they didn't Draft or Overdraft a player we don't know.

 

[Real fan 02]

I would just caution that health is the great equalizer in pro football, without that even the most talented teams can fail.

Next is coaching, development and execution, even athletically gifted teams can fail if talent fails to learn or understand… execute.

I can remember early in the 2018 season and the two Super Bowl seasons prior there were many people on Patriots fan forums telling us those teams didn’t have any talent, they were too old at positions… at the end of the season with very few personnel additions those teams improved and won it all.

This team has to stay healthy, develop the young players and execute at a high level. A lack of talent is no excuse now, they have the talent.

Good stuff wozzy agree 100%. I know I shouldn't live in the what if world... but what if AB had worked out in 19? What if We had gotten Josh Gordon when he was flash Gordon? We always seemed to tweak the roster to add guys that would help us during championship runs. No Matter what anyone says the Chiefs carbon copied our formula and it got them SBs.

 

[PatsFan2]

Twin.. if we can get polk and baker to contributing players then that's a win in itself. Robinson will be here likely he'll end up replacing Moses when his contract is up. I really, really like what Henderson and will bring as pure talent and speed.

I think you meant Wallace the Tackle twin.