Patriots kick the tires on Tet

[signbabybrady]

I'm good with offense. I just want to chit on the guys who want to take WRs with every pick. The thing that I keep going back to the guy they take at #4 is going to be viewed as a good pick if they take him at #'s 6-10, because there's no consensus #4 pick. I guess I don't care what position they pick as long as they get a day 1 starter and a guy worthy of a second contract.

There's reports out there that Tet is a comp to Tee Higgins, and just about everyone would take Tee Higgins, so ok. I get there's question marks on his drive and football character. Ok. Graham is a Vrabel type of guy, and probably a long term player on this roster but he's not a TD scorer. He would make the DL maybe the best in the NFL, certainly the best in the AFCE, so that's something. Is Warren Gronk 2.0? Probably not, but he might be Kittle and we'd all take that player too. Jeanty might be Emmitt Smith or Saquan, but he played in a conference that's not the big 10 or the SEC, and size is a concern. Tough to take a RB at #4 when the guy available at #38 might be 95% of the guy at #4. I know Walker is a riser, but I haven't done any homework on him, same as Johnson. The LTs... Simmons, Campbell, and Banks, one is available later in R1. Then there's the second tier guys; Conerly, Ersery... plus throw Membou in there somewhere. All those guys could be gone by the time they get to #38. I still think the play might be BPA in R1 and then Ozzy Trapilo at #38, assuming the six OTs are gone. I get that's too high for Trapilo, but you have to think that position is over drafted, and he'll go before they get back to the pick at #69.

I think unless it's Carter or Higgins, everyone is gonna be mad because they didn't trade back. IMO the only way they get a good offer to trade back is because Carter or Hunter are there. Otherwise, teams will get take who falls to them somewhere in the top 10.

Unfortunately, it's a chitty year to be at #4.

I'm certainly not in the WR obsessed group but even with Diggs I still see it as our second biggest hole behind LT. I also find it silly that Tet is being dismissed like he is based on a video from freshman year and skipping the combine. His production speaks for itself.

I do agree with you that there's virtually no chance anyone in the top group of LTs slips to 38. Probably will be a decent WR there though.

But still my ideal scenario would be to get one of Tet or LTs in the first after a small trade down. And then use that ammo to trade up from 38 for the other. I think there is a better chance of taking Tet around 9 (Saints trade up for Sanders) and getting a LT in the 20s then vice versa getting the LT first and expecting Tet to fall that far. Of course their are other good WR options. But I still see Tet as a few ticks ahead of the other WRs not named Hunter. But I know plenty on here don't see it that way.

I'm not a draft guru so I tend to put more weight into what I hear about guys during the college season and their stats on paper. And Tet pretty much got all the hype from this class for 2 seasons running and then his supposed falling has all happened after all games were played. I don't want to discredit those that believe he's falling for a reason but I just believe more in what was getting said while games were being played rather than combine hype season.

 

[signbabybrady]

There very famously was a player named Randy Moss who got criticized constantly for things he said regarding effort

I mean I'm not going to start comparing Tet to Randy but very valid point and their are plenty of receivers with similar stuff. They don't call them divas for nothing.

 

[Steve102]

I'm certainly not in the WR obsessed group but even with Diggs I still see it as our second biggest hole behind LT. I also find it silly that Tet is being dismissed like he is based on a video from freshman year and skipping the combine. His production speaks for itself.

I do agree with you that there's virtually no chance anyone in the top group of LTs slips to 38. Probably will be a decent WR their though.

But still my ideal scenario would be to get one of Tet or LTs in the first after a small trade down. And then use that ammo to trade up from 38 for the other. I think there is a better chance of taking Tet around 9 (Saints trade up for Sanders) and getting a LT in the 20s then vice versa getting the LT first and expecting Tet to fall that far. Of course their are other good WR options. But I still see Tet as a few ticks ahead of the other WRs not named Hunter. But I know plenty on here don't see it that way.

I'm not a draft guru so I tend to put more weight into what I hear about guys during the college season and their stats on paper. And Tet pretty much got all the hype from this class for 2 seasons running and then his supposed falling has all happened after all games were played. I don't want to discredit those that believe he's falling for a reason but I just believe more in what was getting said while games were being played rather than combine hype season.

I just don't think there's going to be a good trade partner unless Hunter or Carter are there. I don't believe there's going to be a bidding war for Sanders. If you're one of the teams that need a QB, you just take Dart or one of the other guys in R2.

 

[TommyD4207]

Then why even bring him to Foxboro?
Is it possible Vrabs sees him as a AJ Brown.
And wants to get to know the man to make the determination himself?

Probably to see if that 'I Don't Watch Tape' thing is legit.

 

[TommyD4207]

There very famously was a player named Randy Moss who got criticized constantly for things he said regarding effort

lmfao

Rightfully. He'll tell you himself he took plays off. Know what else he did? Practice. Watch Tape.

Also, he's Randy ****ing Moss.

 

[signbabybrady]

I just don't think there's going to be a good trade partner unless Hunter or Carter are there. I don't believe there's going to be a bidding war for Sanders. If you're one of the teams that need a QB, you just take Dart or one of the other guys in R2.

I agree with this too.

But hopefully that extra 3 can help us pull off the same move we'll just have to take that first player at 4 and work the trade out even with a little less ammo.

 

[EMpats]

If Jeanty is Barkley 2.0 and we take him, then we are the Giants 2.0 (NOT the eagles). Taking running backs in the top 10 is franchise suicide .

They are the cherry on top of a great team. Not franchise building blocks.

 

[Love The Drake]

If Jeanty is Barkley 2.0 and we take him, then we are the Giants 2.0 (NOT the eagles). Taking running backs in the top 10 is franchise suicide .

They are the cherry on top of a great team. Not franchise building blocks.

Derrick Henry single handily carried the Titans for years.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

If Jeanty is Barkley 2.0 and we take him, then we are the Giants 2.0 (NOT the eagles). Taking running backs in the top 10 is franchise suicide .

They are the cherry on top of a great team. Not franchise building blocks.

That's such an overly simplistic way of looking at it. You're making up the causation effect there. Barkley got injured with the Giants and they made terrible roster move after terrible roster move with him.

If the Pats draft Jeanty and he's Barkley then it can go 1 of 2 ways... they can follow that up with other good moves in the rest of this draft and future drafts/free agency periods and they'll be a great team with their stud RB being a big part of that. OR they can follow it up with poor roster moves as the Giants did and they won't be successful.

Drafting a beast of a RB does not cause you to suck. Surrounding that beast of a RB with crap causes you to suck. Same as any other position. It takes a whole team. Each pick you make is only 1 piece to that puzzle.

 

[EMpats]

Derrick Henry single handily carried the Titans for years.

Exactly. They were solid but won nothing of consequence.z Their ceiling was capped.

 

[EMpats]

That's such an overly simplistic way of looking at it. You're making up the causation effect there. Barkley got injured with the Giants and they made terrible roster move after terrible roster move with him.

If the Pats draft Jeanty and he's Barkley then it can go 1 of 2 ways... they can follow that up with other good moves in the rest of this draft and future drafts/free agency periods and they'll be a great team with their stud RB being a big part of that. OR they can follow it up with poor roster moves as the Giants did and they won't be successful.

Drafting a beast of a RB does not cause you to suck. Surrounding that beast of a RB with crap causes you to suck. Same as any other position. It takes a whole team. Each pick you make is only 1 piece to that puzzle.

Of course having a stud running back doesn’t cause you to suck. It’s about how you obtain that running back: asset management. The #4 pick is a huge asset that should make a bigger individual impact than any running back is capable of making. It is the position whose impact is most dependent on the talent around them (this is statistically supported). Using a premium asset on a running back when you have a below average offensive line and passing game weapons makes a minimal impact on winning.

 

[signbabybrady]

Exactly. They were solid but won nothing of consequence.z Their ceiling was capped.

Their ceiling was capped by Tannehill though. Still a long way to go with Maye but I think we all expect/hope he'll be better than Tannehill.

 

[EMpats]

Their ceiling was capped by Tannehill though. Still a long way to go with Maye but I think we all expect/hope he'll be better than Tannehill.

I agree. My point is that running back is a low positional impact without a very good offensive line. It would be a waste of a premium asset at this point. Build the line and rest of the team. Then get the running back.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Of course having a stud running back doesn’t cause you to suck. It’s about how you obtain that running back: asset management. The #4 pick is a huge asset that should make a bigger individual impact than any running back is capable of making. It is the position whose impact is most dependent on the talent around them (this is statistically supported). Using a premium asset on a running back when you have a below average offensive line and passing game weapons makes a minimal impact on winning.

Again, simplistic point of view. Each pick can only be used on one player. If given the choice between a Barkley caliber RB or a #1 WR or elite LT then yes, of course go with the other options. But the draft board doesn't always line up that you get that choise.

For example, many here have said Will Campbell could be a Matt Light kind of LT. That's good, that's solid. But you take a Barkley caliber RB over a Light caliber LT every time. Do you still need to find an eventual answer at LT? Yes. Would a decent LT like that maybe even help you more in year 1? Possibly. But if that's the kind of LT you see Campbell as an the type of RB you see Jeanty as, then you're better off getting the special talent now and finding your LT of that caliber another year.

The world isn't ending after one season. This isn't one year thing and then it's all over. You're drafting these guys for the first 4-5 years of their careers, probably longer if they're any good because you're in the driver seat to extend them at that point.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I agree. My point is that running back is a low positional impact without a very good offensive line. It would be a waste of a premium asset at this point. Build the line and rest of the team. Then get the running back.

Again to piggy back on my last response to you, the draft board doesn't always line up for you to address the team in the order you want. Yes, it's "better" to build the OL and then get the running back but if the elite RB presents himself on the draft board before any elite OL options do, then that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[EMpats]

Again, simplistic point of view. Each pick can only be used on one player. If given the choice between a Barkley caliber RB or a #1 WR or elite LT then yes, of course go with the other options. But the draft board doesn't always line up that you get that choise.

For example, many here have said Will Campbell could be a Matt Light kind of LT. That's good, that's solid. But you take a Barkley caliber RB over a Light caliber LT every time. Do you still need to find an eventual answer at LT? Yes. Would a decent LT like that maybe even help you more in year 1? Possibly. But if that's the kind of LT you see Campbell as an the type of RB you see Jeanty as, then you're better off getting the special talent now and finding your LT of that caliber another year.

The world isn't ending after one season. This isn't one year thing and then it's all over. You're drafting these guys for the first 4-5 years of their careers, probably longer if they're any good because you're in the driver seat to extend them at that point.

I would take a Matt light level left tackle over the best running back prospect in a decade. You can call me simplistic all you want, this is data supported.

 

[Love The Drake]

I would take a Matt light level left tackle over the best running back prospect in a decade. You can call me simplistic all you want, this is data supported.

It’s 2025.

Data is constantly changing, evolving norms being broken.
This is why Bill doesn’t have a NFL job.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I would take a Matt light level left tackle over the best running back prospect in a decade. You can call me simplistic all you want, this is data supported.

The world isn't ending in one year. Passing up, by your definition, the best prospect in a decade, to draft a good but not great LT is silly because you should be able to get that caliber of LT in the future but you won't find that caliber of RB prospect for another decade.

You have a set order that you want positions addressed without any regard for how good the players in those positions are. It doesn't work like that. You draft players not positions.

 

[EMpats]

It’s 2025.

Data is constantly changing, evolving norms being broken.
This is why Bill doesn’t have a NFL job.

Exactly. It took a long time and a lot of high level analysis for people realize how unimportant running backs are relative to other positions.

Put Jeanty on last year’s team with the worst offensive line in the league. His impact would be mostly negated and low yield improvement over a replacement level back.

This perspective, by the way, is ENTIRELY unique to the running back position. At all other offensive and defensive positions, I agree with taking the board as it falls.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I would take a Matt light level left tackle over the best running back prospect in a decade. You can call me simplistic all you want, this is data supported.

I'll take an elite RB over Matt Light any day. He's probably the most overrated player in the dynasty era.