Mason Graham

[bakes781]

I think it's high time we gave the Marshmellowman his own thread lol



Those first 2 were against Minnesota and the way he shoves the LG back like that in clip 1 is incredible! Ersery of course does his job lol

Anyway Mason Graham should be the selection if we address LT in free agency as we should and we can't find a trade partner. Abdul and Hunter are almost a given to be gone.

The LT prospects are not going to solve our problem this year. Simmons and Ersery are my 2 favorite to groom for the long-term. There's a good chance 1 will be there at 38.

WR class is also not top heavy. We just drafted 2 last year so I just don't see us going there.

Trading back is going to be difficult with the craptastic class it is overall.

Don't overthink it. Select Graham!

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

He was the best player on that team since he stepped foot on campus.

 

[BobDigital]

I said this is another post and I will say it now. Everyone seems to love him and think he's great. I get it. I think he is really good too. Is he worth the 4th pick though? Is he the most impact guy we can get? I am not so sure cause of one thing.

If he is such a good disruptive force against the pass, where are the sacks? And i know sacks are not everything. But Donald, Williams and Jones put them up in college. And that translated really well to the NFL. I think the lack of them in Graham may be a red flag. How many guys in college don't produce sacks much then start producing them in the NFL after 3 years of tape? I have no idea.

And I know sacks do not tell the whole story... but they are an indicator. They are proof you have that extra half step in speed... or quickness or whatever to not only get there but finish... to not only disrupt a play, but to destroy it. It matters. And i won't let people say it doesn't. And remember... disrupted plays can still be positive plays... Particularly in the era of mobile QBs. You want to make Josh Allen move or run... he can do it just fine. Same for any number of guys. You can't just depend on getting the QB off his spot or making him move be enough anymore. You need to be a threat to put him down. Is Graham THAT GUY? If no and he never will be i have serious concerns about using that pick on him. I have serious questions if that is how we get the most value for that pick.

 

[manxman2601]

The highest sack total of any draft eligible DT was 9, Mason Gra

I said this is another post and I will say it now. Everyone seems to love him and think he's great. I get it. I think he is really good too. Is he worth the 4th pick though? Is he the most impact guy we can get? I am not so sure cause of one thing.

If he is such a good disruptive force against the pass, where are the sacks? And i know sacks are not everything. But Donald, Williams and Jones put them up in college. And that translated really well to the NFL. I think the last of them in Graham may be a red flag. How many guys in college don't produce sacks much then start producing them in the NFL after 3 years of tape? I have no idea.

And I know sacks do not tell the whole story... but they are an indicator. They are proof you have that extra half step in speed... or quickness or whatever to not only get there but finish... to not only disrupt a play, but to destroy it. It matters. And i won't let people say it doesn't. And remember... disrupted plays can still be positive plays... Particularly in the era of mobile QBs. You want to make Josh Allen move or run... he can do it just fine. Same for any number of guys. You can't just depend on getting the QB off his spot or making him move be enough anymore. You need to be a threat to put him down. Is Graham THAT GUY? If no and he never will be i have serious concerns about using that pick on him. I have serious questions if that is how we get the most value for that pick.

The highest sack total of any draft eligible DT was 9, Mason Graham had 5. He was 10th for pressures, 8th in pass rush grade and 3rd best in pass rush win rate amongst the DTs graded in the first 3 rounds and that's before we get onto his run defense.

 

[BobDigital]

The highest sack total of any draft eligible DT was 9, Mason Gra

The highest sack total of any draft eligible DT was 9, Mason Graham had 5. He was 10th for pressures, 8th in pass rush grade and 3rd best in pass rush win rate amongst the DTs graded in the first 3 rounds and that's before we get onto his run defense.

5? I saw 3.5 in his last year which was his highest total. And again that all sounds great but maybe that just means this year has a lack of quality DT pass rusher capable players.. not that Graham is a good one. And that doesn't mean he can't be worth a high pick. But are people trying to talk themselves into his value? I think that is a fair question. Stopping the run is great. But stopping the pass is more important. If a team mostly abandons the run, but still passes effectively, and he can't get there in time, where is his value.

And I know you can say if a team can run on you all day, it doesn't matter. But if if the other 10 defenders around you are so bad you need a run stopper of Graham's caliber to sure it up, does it really matter?

By the way Manx, love the work you've put in on this board this year. Some great reads... learning a lot!

 

[manxman2601]

5? I saw 3.5 in his last year which was his highest total. And again that all sounds great but maybe that just means this year has a lack of quality DT pass rusher capable players.. not that Graham is a good one. And that doesn't mean he can't be worth a high pick. But are people trying to talk themselves into his value? I think that is a fair question. Stopping the run is great. But stopping the pass is more important. If a team mostly abandons the run, but still passes effectively, and he can't get there in time, where is his value.

And I know you can say if a team can run on you all day, it doesn't matter. But if if the other 10 defenders around you are so bad you need a run stopper of Graham's caliber to sure it up, does it really matter?

By the way Manx, love the work you've put in on this board this year. Some great reads... learning a lot!

Thanks Bob. I haven't exactly soured on Graham, I still think he's the best DT in the class but this is such a strong DT class, I'm no longer locked in on him at the pick at 4 if Hunter/Carter are gone. And the way FA is going, we might be locked into Will Campbell anyway.

 

[imahobgoblin]

The discussion now turns to how Michigan's recorded weight of 320 was so far off from his combine weight of 296. I get that colleges fudge a little bit, but 24lbs??? That is a huge difference. Is it relevant? Well, yes it could be. The debate will be if an o-line like Philly will overpower him. It is a fair question worthy of discussion at #4. I think we all would rather see the 320lb guy in the middle of the line.

 

[BobDigital]

The discussion now turns to how Michigan's recorded weight of 320 was so far off from his combine weight of 296. I get that colleges fudge a little bit, but 24lbs??? That is a huge difference. Is it relevant? Well, yes it could be. The debate will be if an o-line like Philly will overpower him. It is a fair question worthy of discussion at #4. I think we all would rather see the 320lb guy in the middle of the line.

Maybe he lost some... if he did and gained some speed without losing too much strength its worth it. I mean, you need strength up front, but do you care that Chris Jones is 300lbs or Donald is 285? I don't. But yes, if that is his playing weight in college... it is concerning a bit.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Maybe he lost some... if he did and gained some speed without losing too much strength its worth it. I mean, you need strength up front, but do you care that Chris Jones is 300lbs or Donald is 285? I don't. But yes, if that is his playing weight in college... it is concerning a bit.

We can't compare the builds of Chris Jones and Aaron Donald to Mason Graham. Those two dudes are Greek gods. Mason Graham is the Michelin Man. That is not say that Graham is a bad player, but comparing to those two just isn't fair.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

There are so many considerations that I can not evaluate. Remember Ron Brace playing alongside BJ Raji? The Packers take Raji and we take Brace. Raji goes on to have a good career, and Brace bombs. Turns out that Brace looked great at BC due to Raji's dominance. Who is Graham playing beside? Who was Garham up against? So many variables beyond Graham's playing weight that I can not juggle the evaluation. Having said that Graham is a great all around college player and that means more to me than the athletic scores.

 

[imahobgoblin]

There are so many considerations that I can not evaluate. Remember Ron Brace playing alongside BJ Raji? The Packers take Raji and we take Brace. Raji goes on to have a good career, and Brace bombs. Turns out that Brace looked great at BC due to Raji's dominance. Who is Graham playing beside? Who was Garham up against? So many variables beyond Graham's playing weight that I can not juggle the evaluation. Having said that Graham is a great all around college player and that means more to me than the athletic scores.

Ummmm that would be the monster known as Kenneth Grant.
Height: 6’ 4’’
Weight: 331 pounds
Arm: 33 1/2’’
Hand: 10 1/8″

 

[bakes781]

Ummmm that would be the monster known as Kenneth Grant.
Height: 6’ 4’’
Weight: 331 pounds
Arm: 33 1/2’’
Hand: 10 1/8″

And Josaiah Stewart at edge with 8.5 sacks.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Ummmm that would be the monster known as Kenneth Grant.
Height: 6’ 4’’
Weight: 331 pounds
Arm: 33 1/2’’
Hand: 10 1/8″

So does Kenneth Grant and Josaiah Stewart make Mason Graham project better than he actually will be? Or does Graham make Grant and Stewart look good? These evaluations are so tough.

 

[Dec54]

So does Kenneth Grant and Josaiah Stewart make Mason Graham project better than he actually will be? Or does Graham make Grant and Stewart look good? These evaluations are so tough.

I'm pleased not to be making the draft choices. It is tough.

 

[manxman2601]

 

[Steve102]

So does Kenneth Grant and Josaiah Stewart make Mason Graham project better than he actually will be? Or does Graham make Grant and Stewart look good? These evaluations are so tough.

I think that's a lot of it. These guys come from NFL level teams and really look good. (Mac Jones says hello) Then you put them on a team like you mentioned Brace and they disappear. It's not an easy job.

 

[Username]

My favourite player in the entire class

 

[zimmy]

I’m not too worried about the lack of sacks. You see his explosive first step.

A few comparisons in terms of sack production. Chris Jones and Jalen Carter never had more than 3 sacks in a college season. Jeffrey Simmons had 7 total in his college career. I don’t think Graham’s level of production indicates he can’t be a disrupter at the NFL level.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yea i'm not too concerned about the weight. They'll get him on an NFL program and he'll put on 15 lbs of muscle in a year and a 1/2.

If he can play around 310-320 that'll be fine.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yea i'm not too concerned about the weight. They'll get him on an NFL program and he'll put on 15 lbs of muscle in a year and a 1/2.

If he can play around 310-320 that'll be fine.

I like him at his current weight his playing Strength is off the Charts.