To Contend Deep In The Playoffs, We NEED An All-pro WR, NOT!

[Zuma]

I think terrible is a bit much.. the situation all around was terrible.. Boutte and pop had adequate years based on everything they were surrounded with.. now.. don't get me wrong I'm not here proclaiming any of them are all- pros.. simply saying they aren't game changers adding some real difference makers would allow them to play more naturally as 3s and 4s..

What will probably happen IMO is we will sign Higgins, Deebo or someone similar for WR1 and the lesser WR we get from FA or draft will compete with Boutte for WR2. Their may not be much of a difference between Boutte and whoever we get for WR2. IMO if Boutte starts all 17 games at WR2, I expect him to have 600-900 yds. Pop in the Slot is good for WR3.

 

[dliverey44]

No team has ever needed an All Pro WR to contend deep in the playoffs. You simply need 4-6 reliable WR’s who can attack the entire field so defenses have to account for them and defend every blade of grass.

David Patten wasn’t an All Pro but he was a fast reliable deep threat, David Givens wasn’t an all pro but he was a strong physical possession WR, Troy Brown was impossible to cover in the slot because he possessed great mobility… all these guys were late round picks and UDFA’s. This trend of finding good value players continued for the next two decades.

QB and both offensive and defensive lines… all these skill guys or glory positions come well after those line positions in terms of importance. Football is won in the trenches.

This man is the very definition of reliable. The guy in this video is 7th round WR David Givens. This is who I thought Polk is like and could be a productive role player, I'll give you he was a reach in the 2nd but that doesn't matter now. He is here and we need to get something out of him. Givens was never a world beater, but was solid. Caught a TD in 2 different SB's and had a streak of like a TD in 7 or 8 straight playoff games.

 

[dliverey44]

No they are terrible. Any individual ranking of them in last few years you could give them usually has them near bottom of the league. And you can measure them on things like separation where it has nothing to do with the line or QB and see that they suck. Polk legitimately is the worst starting WR in the league and he's not even really close to the second worst guy.

The line matters a lot, but we need to stop pretending we are going to win anything if these are the guys we are fielding

This is the way I look at it and maybe I am in the minority, but if Maye has enough time he will get the ball to someone downfield. I keep seeing people rate WR as the biggest need this offseason and I think that is very misguided. Think about this the OL impacts 2 aspects of the game, run and pass.

I don't care what they do at WR this offseason, if they fail to bring in quality competition on the OL then this offseason was a fail.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is the way I look at it and maybe I am in the minority, but if Maye has enough time he will get the ball to someone downfield. I keep seeing people rate WR as the biggest need this offseason and I think that is very misguided. Think about this the OL impacts 2 aspects of the game, run and pass.

I don't care what they do at WR this offseason, if they fail to bring in quality competition on the OL then this offseason was a fail.

For some reason this fan base seems to sometimes forget how horrible Tom looked when the line played poorly or was completely overmatched.

The line is the priority. Period. Let's get some quality people than can gel as a high-performing unit.

 

[dliverey44]

For some reason this fan base seems to sometimes forget how horrible Tom looked when the line played poorly or was completely overmatched.

The line is the priority. Period. Let's get some quality people than can gel as a high-performing unit.

You are the winner today good sir. People generally want pretty and flashy. Give me boring and practical..when it comes to football. Lets get the OL solved and then get toys.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are the winner today good sir. People generally want pretty and flashy. Give me boring and practical..when it comes to football. Lets get the OL solved and then get toys.

Yep. My point doesn't mean we should not have quality pass-catchers. We need them- badly.

But what's the point of having WRs if your QB has 1.8 seconds to throw, is scrambling around or in the medical tent?

 

[Real fan 02]

What will probably happen IMO is we will sign Higgins, Deebo or someone similar for WR1 and the lesser WR we get from FA or draft will compete with Boutte for WR2. Their may not be much of a difference between Boutte and whoever we get for WR2. IMO if Boutte starts all 17 games at WR2, I expect him to have 600-900 yds. Pop in the Slot is good for WR3.

I can see that. Also KB will have been a season after he came back from the ACL and had his best production under Josh. I like what Boutte can be in that sat Jabari gaffney role. Provided we get Higgins or deebo or even kupp. The closer we get to FA I'm starting to feel like it will be a bidding war for tee Higgins. The more realistic approach is probably acquiring kupp or deebo either one would be fantastic for Drake. Pop is the key here.. he will be properly utilized in the slot and will be key for Drake on 3rd down if Drake doesn't pick it up with his legs.

 

[rkarp1]

I can name a lot more. Hell Vollmer was elite and a second round pick, the only reason he wasn’t a HOF’er was health. When he was healthy he was dominant.

I dont agree that Neal was elite
but he was developed to be really good
you listed 4 players over 20 years that were "elite" coming in...

 

[bakes781]

This man is the very definition of reliable. The guy in this video is 7th round WR David Givens. This is who I thought Polk is like and could be a productive role player, I'll give you he was a reach in the 2nd but that doesn't matter now. He is here and we need to get something out of him. Givens was never a world beater, but was solid. Caught a TD in 2 different SB's and had a streak of like a TD in 7 or 8 straight playoff games.

We are good at drafting WRs in the 7th that's for sure. Any other round? Not so much!

 

[rkarp1]

Welkie? Put some respect on that mans name, its Welker and they traded the dolphins a 2nd and a 7th round pick to aquire him. They didnt develop him, he developed a mental mind meld with Brady and went from being a pop douglas level player to the best damn slot WR in NFL history.

Welkie was a middle of the road WR with the Phins
he became a HOF WR while here, and redefined a position

 

[bakes781]

I hope Tee is off the table soon so we don't need to be dragged into another bidding war that will ultimately leave us looking like Cinderella in the end again.

 

[pazrul72]

For some reason this fan base seems to sometimes forget how horrible Tom looked when the line played poorly or was completely overmatched.

The line is the priority. Period. Let's get some quality people than can gel as a high-performing unit.

While i agree with you 100%, give me a big powerful road grading Oline and i am happy watching football, you also have to buy whats available on the market. This year does not have an Alt in the draft, or an Orlando Pace in FA. The biggest likely difference maker worth a max tier contract unfortunately is Tee Higgins. I want him badly, 30 mil a year level badly, just because he is the best on the market and the patriots have the money. They can still afford to bring in another 7-10 mid level FA's and i hope at least 2 of them are OTs. Then draft one and a C too but dont focus so much on the line that you dont add to the talent everywhere on the roster. I'd rather add a (B- ) FS then a (D+) OT if thats what the market has to buy.

 

[Real fan 02]

I dont agree that Neal was elite
but he was developed to be really good
you listed 4 players over 20 years that were "elite" coming in...

 

[Wozzy]

I dont agree that Neal was elite
but he was developed to be really good
you listed 4 players over 20 years that were "elite" coming in...

Neal was an elite athlete who played another sport, not that different than Jordan Mailata.

Like I said, I could go back 20 years and list multiple elite athletes the Patriots had. You don’t that many games without a few.

They also ran schemes that prioritized winning games over individual stats. Let Willie McGinest pass rush on every down and he would accumulate a lot more stats, the team needed him to expand his game to win games. He was one of many.

 

[dliverey44]

I hope Tee is off the table soon so we don't need to be dragged into another bidding war that will ultimately leave us looking like Cinderella in the end again.

Ohhh stop we have not been pretty at any time in the last 5 years. Cindarella was at least pretty before she turned back. We are the ugly hag that is trying to give up to get a boyfriend. lol

 

[bakes781]

Ohhh stop we have not been pretty at any time in the last 5 years. Cindarella was at least pretty before she turned back. We are the ugly hag that is trying to give up to get a boyfriend. lol

Yeah but she thought she was ugly until her prince charming(Vrabel) came to swoop her off her feet! Lol

 

[patfanken]

Ok. so apologies in advance for the rant I am about to go on. I've pretty much done it every year since I joined here over 25 years ago. It's a fairly simple rant since it is useful every year. So here we go.

We KEEP on forgetting that Football is the most team-oriented game that exists. There is no team game where an individual is more dependent on so many others for their individual success....on EVERY play. Yet every year we keep on looking for INDIVIDUALS so seemingly solve all our problems. The fact is that no ONE individual is going to turn a program around, even a QB. It is a humbling game where the best QB in the game can be made to look like a mook by one aspect of another team.

Think about it, even though we acknowledge that the QB is the most important individual position yet even he plays LESS than 45% of a team's snaps each game. I wish we would stop allowing the media and the NFL itself from INDIVIDUALIZING the game, so it no longer the Pats vs the Colts, but rather it was Brady vs Manning, 2 guys who have never been on a field together when the clock was running. We have over the years minimized the glorious team aspect of the game in order to pump up the one. Even when you seem to have a great one on one match up, like a CB/WR, or LT/DE there are still dozens of plays where they aren't directly truly matched up.

So when you look at your roster and you see that it doesn't look up to snuff, there IS no single panacea to restock. A team and staff has to develop organically, since you generally change 25-35% of your roster annually. I noticed a through away stat at the end of the superbowl stating the Eagles turned about their offense from being in the mid 20's in most stats in 2023 to being in the top 3 in most in 2024. It struck me just how often we see that kind of turnaround happen year to year.

Just look at the Pats piss poor job of getting TO's. Just 12 for the season (7 picks 5 fumbles) vs 23 give aways. Forget about talent, confidence and discipline, and how many more wins would have the Pats have had by just flipping those 2 stats.

We also forget just how much BOTH individual players as well as groups improve year to year, especially if they have some continuity between players and staff. That is when you can see a team go from being thought of as the LEAST likely team to get to a SB within 5 years in April to actually WINNING the damned thing 9 months later. A LOT of things have to go VERY right for that to happen, and god knows they did, but sometimes the chemistry you make in your building is the right stuff.

So getting back to the topic of WHO to go after this season in trying to create your TEAM, all we really can do is hope we hit on what I call the big 8. Four starting FA's and Four contributing rookies. Hit on those eight and add on half your role player shots and we too can compete for the playoffs. I believe it can happen that quickly.... or not.

That being said, every year there seem to be positions that are thin, and others that have depth. Close to 300 players will be selected in the draft, we will get about 8-10 before all is said and done. History tells us we will strike out on half of them, but we ARE due to do better. Right now I think Edge, DT, and CB seem to have a lot of depth through the first 3 rounds. Personally if we wound up with Graham, one of the 2nd tier OT's a 2nd day Edge guy, and an offensive skill player I will be very happy. But before that day, we need to find a starting LT, WR, DE and LB in FA to set the foundation.

Just a thought

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

You have the QB whole hopefully runs your offense for the next 10+ years. I think he’d benefit greatly from having a WR who can get open on his own

 

[dliverey44]

Yeah but she thought she was ugly until her prince charming(Vrabel) came to swoop her off her feet! Lol

 

[bakes781]

Ok. so apologies in advance for the rant I am about to go on. I've pretty much done it every year since I joined here over 25 years ago. It's a fairly simple rant since it is useful every year. So here we go.

We KEEP on forgetting that Football is the most team-oriented game that exists. There is no team game where an individual is more dependent on so many others for their individual success....on EVERY play. Yet every year we keep on looking for INDIVIDUALS so seemingly solve all our problems. The fact is that no ONE individual is going to turn a program around, even a QB. It is a humbling game where the best QB in the game can be made to look like a mook by one aspect of another team.

Think about it, even though we acknowledge that the QB is the most important individual position yet even he plays LESS than 45% of a team's snaps each game. I wish we would stop allowing the media and the NFL itself from INDIVIDUALIZING the game, so it no longer the Pats vs the Colts, but rather it was Brady vs Manning, 2 guys who have never been on a field together when the clock was running. We have over the years minimized the glorious team aspect of the game in order to pump up the one. Even when you seem to have a great one on one match up, like a CB/WR, or LT/DE there are still dozens of plays where they aren't directly truly matched up.

So when you look at your roster and you see that it doesn't look up to snuff, there IS no single panacea to restock. A team and staff has to develop organically, since you generally change 25-35% of your roster annually. I noticed a through away stat at the end of the superbowl stating the Eagles turned about their offense from being in the mid 20's in most stats in 2023 to being in the top 3 in most in 2024. It struck me just how often we see that kind of turnaround happen year to year.

Just look at the Pats piss poor job of getting TO's. Just 12 for the season (7 picks 5 fumbles) vs 23 give aways. Forget about talent, confidence and discipline, and how many more wins would have the Pats have had by just flipping those 2 stats.

We also forget just how much BOTH individual players as well as groups improve year to year, especially if they have some continuity between players and staff. That is when you can see a team go from being thought of as the LEAST likely team to get to a SB within 5 years in April to actually WINNING the damned thing 9 months later. A LOT of things have to go VERY right for that to happen, and god knows they did, but sometimes the chemistry you make in your building is the right stuff.

So getting back to the topic of WHO to go after this season in trying to create your TEAM, all we really can do is hope we hit on what I call the big 8. Four starting FA's and Four contributing rookies. Hit on those eight and add on half your role player shots and we too can compete for the playoffs. I believe it can happen that quickly.... or not.

That being said, every year there seem to be positions that are thin, and others that have depth. Close to 300 players will be selected in the draft, we will get about 8-10 before all is said and done. History tells us we will strike out on half of them, but we ARE due to do better. Right now I think Edge, DT, and CB seem to have a lot of depth through the first 3 rounds. Personally if we wound up with Graham, one of the 2nd tier OT's a 2nd day Edge guy, and an offensive skill player I will be very happy. But before that day, we need to find a starting LT, WR, DE and LB in FA to set the foundation.

Just a thought

Well said. The likelihood that we can solve all of this in one off-season is damn near impossible though.

We MUST hit with the #4 pick for sure. Thank God we don't have to worry about a QB because this year's class is horrid.

That said we could still screw it up. I think taking anything other than someone in the trenches worthy of a top 5 value would be a way to screw it up. Take Carter or Graham. Ersery is still projected to be there at 38. 3rd round is ideal for Edge/DB/WR/TE. We have 2 picks. Take your pick of any combination...

Stewart/TJSanders/Mukuba/Porter/Tez/Arroyo