How confident are you on our own Roster?

[Pape]

Thanks for the analysis.
I surmise you aren't confident in our roster, and I agree.
We need lots and lots of pieces in lots of lots of places.
All levels from starter to backup to developmental player.
The front office has a lot of work on its hands.
More than one off-season's work, even if they nail every pick.
FA just won't have enough talent to fill in all the holes, IMO.

one or two key additions combined with the arrival of actual, real honest to god coaches will help this team... and who knows, maybe some of the first year issues can be resolved and we get a bit more from the former rookies...

 

[Real fan 02]

one or two key additions combined with the arrival of actual, real honest to god coaches will help this team... and who knows, maybe some of the first year issues can be resolved and we get a bit more from the former rookies...

I really like Josh and Vrabel to get something out of polk and baker.. I would hate to see them go down the Patriots WR bust highway...

 

[dliverey44]

100% not at all in its current state

 

[PWRxWLF]

Not all confident in the current roster. It needs some work. Sign 20 or so free agents and let em duke it out. This roster is far from competing.

 

[Pape]

I really like Josh and Vrabel to get something out of polk and baker.. I would hate to see them go down the Patriots WR bust highway...

i have zero faith in polk, and even less in baker... I like to get a few free agent wr's starting with Cooper Kupp... the more i think about him, the more i like the idea of making a trade for him... despite his injury history and him being on the wrong side of 30... Kupp in a McDaniels offense? seems tailor made for success...

I was hoping we'd get more from guys like Wallace, Robinson and Dial

 

[Real fan 02]

i have zero faith in polk, and even less in baker... I like to get a few free agent wr's starting with Cooper Kupp... the more i think about him, the more i like the idea of making a trade for him... despite his injury history and him being on the wrong side of 30... Kupp in a McDaniels offense? seems tailor made for success...

I was hoping we'd get more from guys like Wallace, Robinson and Dial

Robinson I'm high on, dial I'm high on and pettus as well. I'm also not ready to give up on Polk or baker.. these guys were drafted into what came to find terrible situations. Seeing guys riding bikes through the locker, and as gonzo admitted guys didn't work as hard or take things as serious as they should have under Mayo. Polk was having an excellent camp. He was best WR outside of pop all training camp. Brissett was the worst thing that could have happened to him as a young player needing to see targets early on.. He's a far better player than last season, and I know McDaniels cab tap into every ounce of it. Same for baker. Robinson has a chance to carve out a role on the right side I like his potential. with you on kupp.. he's got great hands excellent route runner.. from what I hear he's very intelligent as well. Feels like a move we should be all in on.

 

[Real fan 02]

Not all confident in the current roster. It needs some work. Sign 20 or so free agents and let em duke it out. This roster is far from competing.

We will like every year have a 90 man roster entering camp.. so between FA, drafted guys, and UDFA there will be alot of new faces. Of those 90 I can bet you there will be a diamond in the rough that shines.. the roster under Vrabel I can assure you will be considerably better than last season. Vrabel isn't going to stand for half-assing, or guys not taking it seriously like last season.

 

[Real fan 02]

i have zero faith in polk, and even less in baker... I like to get a few free agent wr's starting with Cooper Kupp... the more i think about him, the more i like the idea of making a trade for him... despite his injury history and him being on the wrong side of 30... Kupp in a McDaniels offense? seems tailor made for success...

I was hoping we'd get more from guys like Wallace, Robinson and Dial

NFL Exec Expects Patriots to Pursue Cooper Kupp

When looking at the New England Patriots' biggest needs ahead of this offseason, one that resides at the top of the list is the wide receiver position. The last

www.si.com

 

[mgteich]

i have zero faith in polk, and even less in baker... I like to get a few free agent wr's starting with Cooper Kupp... the more i think about him, the more i like the idea of making a trade for him... despite his injury history and him being on the wrong side of 30... Kupp in a McDaniels offense? seems tailor made for success...

I was hoping we'd get more from guys like Wallace, Robinson and Dial

It is a shame hat these players did so poorly in their first three years.

Oh, they were rookies!
===================
I expect no more of them as rookies. I see no reason to think that we didn't get value in the 4th, 3rd and 6th when we picked them.

ROBINSON looked like a potential starter who needed to learn how to pass block. I was surprised when he so well at LG. He clearly is a good backup for Onwenu at RT.

WALLACE had two major injuries. Also, the team seemed to want him to switch to LT when he was clearly better at RT. We'll see. He may be the best or close to the best OL drafted when he was drafted or later. There is no reason to believe that he doesn't have potential based on this 2024 season.

DIAL was a shot in the dark 6th rounder who was drafted primarily as a STer. I think that we have gotten great value in Dial. Also, he is still a potential backup corner (competing with Bolden).

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I guess the way I see it is:
What players on our roster are tough, passionate and team first players that are worth keeping
They have to fit the scheme and the culture
Drake, Gonzo, Barnmore, White, Henry, Baringer and Schooler fit that bill
Eventually I believe there will be a lot of turnover
But Vrabel pretty much has a blank canvas to start with

 

[Pape]

It is a shame hat these players did so poorly in their first three years.

Oh, they were rookies!
===================
I expect no more of them as rookies. I see no reason to think that we didn't get value in the 4th, 3rd and 6th when we picked them.

ROBINSON looked like a potential starter who needed to learn how to pass block. I was surprised when he so well at LG. He clearly is a good backup for Onwenu at RT.

WALLACE had two major injuries. Also, the team seemed to want him to switch to LT when he was clearly better at RT. We'll see. He may be the best or close to the best OL drafted when he was drafted or later. There is no reason to believe that he doesn't have potential based on this 2024 season.

DIAL was a shot in the dark 6th rounder who was drafted primarily as a STer. I think that we have gotten great value in Dial. Also, he is still a potential backup corner (competing with Bolden).

wallace and robinson were disappointments... Don't care if they were rookies... I want more from them... don't like it? Don't care...

 

[mgteich]

wallace and robinson were disappointments... Don't care if they were rookies... I want more from them... don't like it? Don't care...

fair enough

I want more from them also, and I hope to see more if they are healthy, especially with better schemes and much, much better coaching.

Also, they will do better if we acquire a couple of starters.

 

[Real fan 02]

It is a shame hat these players did so poorly in their first three years.

Oh, they were rookies!
===================
I expect no more of them as rookies. I see no reason to think that we didn't get value in the 4th, 3rd and 6th when we picked them.

ROBINSON looked like a potential starter who needed to learn how to pass block. I was surprised when he so well at LG. He clearly is a good backup for Onwenu at RT.

WALLACE had two major injuries. Also, the team seemed to want him to switch to LT when he was clearly better at RT. We'll see. He may be the best or close to the best OL drafted when he was drafted or later. There is no reason to believe that he doesn't have potential based on this 2024 season.

DIAL was a shot in the dark 6th rounder who was drafted primarily as a STer. I think that we have gotten great value in Dial. Also, he is still a potential backup corner (competing with Bolden).

100% accurate. Not to mention the terrible situation they were drafted into.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This is one really bizarre question to ask at this time. The team just came off of a 4 win season* with a new QB many on this board thought was going to be the difference - it wasn't. Now posters blame the roster and Coach when this has been a theme for years now. FA hasn't started, so the Pats roster remains arguably the worst in the league.

The Pats not only need to address the OL for Maye, but also for Stevenson who they recently paid. It was absolutely pointless to pay him, only to give a poor effort in FA and whiff in the draft. They need front 7 players next, followed by WR's. LB and outside CB are high priorities as well, but you can't address every need unless you're playing Madden.

Locks are Maye, Gonzalez and the players they recently paid. Everyone else are replaceable.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is one really bizarre question to ask at this time. The team just came off of a 4 win season* with a new QB many on this board thought was going to be the difference - it wasn't. Now posters blame the roster and Coach when this has been a theme for years now. FA hasn't started, so the Pats roster remains arguably the worst in the league.

The Pats not only need to address the OL for Maye, but also for Stevenson who they recently paid. It was absolutely pointless to pay him, only to give a poor effort in FA and whiff in the draft. They need front 7 players next, followed by WR's. LB and outside CB are high priorities as well, but you can't address every need unless you're playing Madden.

Locks are Maye, Gonzalez and the players they recently paid. Everyone else are replaceable.

It's just that Time of year.. season is over.. on the.forum we are eager to see what our team we all love will do come FA.. but you make a dam good point and I agree with you.

 

[JohnJH]

Maye=Yes! Gonzo=Yes! Barmore (if he ever plays again, let alone ever becomes dominant), =Yes! Punter=Yes! After that, we could and need to improve (both starters and depth players), a serious infusion of young talent at EVERY position. It won't happen in one season, but they can get a nice start with this FA Period/Trades/Draft.

 

[lancerman]

This is one really bizarre question to ask at this time. The team just came off of a 4 win season* with a new QB many on this board thought was going to be the difference - it wasn't. Now posters blame the roster and Coach when this has been a theme for years now. FA hasn't started, so the Pats roster remains arguably the worst in the league.

The Pats not only need to address the OL for Maye, but also for Stevenson who they recently paid. It was absolutely pointless to pay him, only to give a poor effort in FA and whiff in the draft. They need front 7 players next, followed by WR's. LB and outside CB are high priorities as well, but you can't address every need unless you're playing Madden.

Locks are Maye, Gonzalez and the players they recently paid. Everyone else are replaceable.

People always want a quick fix. The roster was rough for several years.

Maye was just confirmation that the roster was independently bad and that getting rid of Cam and Mac wasn't some magic key to unlocking everyone's potential. Mayo was bad, but there's still a few folks that really want to believe that he was the "one thing" holding us back last year and that we are really secretly a lot better and closer than we are.

I'll maintain that one of the worst things that happened to this franchise was us winning a few meaningless games in 2020 and it tricking everyone into thinking we were a lot closer than we were.

 

[Huckleberry1]

i have zero faith in polk, and even less in baker... I like to get a few free agent wr's starting with Cooper Kupp... the more i think about him, the more i like the idea of making a trade for him... despite his injury history and him being on the wrong side of 30... Kupp in a McDaniels offense? seems tailor made for success...

I was hoping we'd get more from guys like Wallace, Robinson and Dial

Pape. Laden Robinson made the All Rookie team. This tells us 2 things. The first is that people around the league think he played better than Patriot fans did. And any member of an offensive line is going to look bad when the unit sucks as a whole.

The second thing this tells us is just how few rookie OL picked after the first round significantly contribute to their team’s in their first year.

Many here screamed that they should have taken Patrick Paul or Sulamanaia, who ended up 2nd string on a bad Miami line, and 3rd string in K.C. Both could turn out to be good players, but like the vast majority of rookies they didn’t contribute much their first year.

Wallace and Robinson could turn out to be anything from great to busts, we really have no idea as of now. They need to be given the opportunity to develop, and the same goes for every player drafted after the first round on every team. You can’t judge a player on their first year in the league, it’s a massive jump in competition.

Now they will all get real coaching, and hopefully some of them will end being good players.

 

[Pape]

Pape. Laden Robinson made the All Rookie team. This tells us 2 things. The first is that people around the league think he played better than Patriot fans did. And any member of an offensive line is going to look bad when the unit sucks as a whole.

The second thing this tells us is just how few rookie OL picked after the first round significantly contribute to their team’s in their first year.

Many here screamed that they should have taken Patrick Paul or Sulamanaia, who ended up 2nd string on a bad Miami line, and 3rd string in K.C. Both could turn out to be good players, but like the vast majority of rookies they didn’t contribute much their first year.

Wallace and Robinson could turn out to be anything from great to busts, we really have no idea as of now. They need to be given the opportunity to develop, and the same goes for every player drafted after the first round on every team. You can’t judge a player on their first year in the league, it’s a massive jump in competition.

Now they will all get real coaching, and hopefully some of them will end being good players.

you have written a well thought out, logical post, its appreciated Huck... first, I don't care about "honors"... they are meaningless accolades that have no actual metric to determine how well or how badly a player played... secondly, there is no way Layden Robinson made the NFL's All-Rookie team when guys like Joe Alt, Amarius Mims and Roger Rosengarten were starting...

Robinson will hopefully be replaced by Cole Strange at LG next year... compare the two in the lg spot 2023 vs 2024, Strange played 15 games, Robinson 13 games... Strange 2 penalties, 5 for Robinson... Strange is a much better pass protector, and a better run blocker...

Are either Robinson or Wallace an out and out bust? No, the only real bust bust was Nick Leverette (iirc) Wallace is closer to a bust (but i do recognize that he was in a tougher position health and position wise)... so to clarify, I did not say that they were busts. I said I want more from them.

and yes, i fully expect the new coaching staff to help with reigning in the lackadaisical play we saw in 2024... which will help with the development of every player on the team

 

[Huckleberry1]

you have written a well thought out, logical post, its appreciated Huck... first, I don't care about "honors"... they are meaningless accolades that have no actual metric to determine how well or how badly a player played... secondly, there is no way Layden Robinson made the NFL's All-Rookie team when guys like Joe Alt, Amarius Mims and Roger Rosengarten were starting...

Robinson will hopefully be replaced by Cole Strange at LG next year... compare the two in the lg spot 2023 vs 2024, Strange played 15 games, Robinson 13 games... Strange 2 penalties, 5 for Robinson... Strange is a much better pass protector, and a better run blocker...

Are either Robinson or Wallace an out and out bust? No, the only real bust bust was Nick Leverette (iirc) Wallace is closer to a bust (but i do recognize that he was in a tougher position health and position wise)... so to clarify, I did not say that they were busts. I said I want more from them.

and yes, i fully expect the new coaching staff to help with reigning in the lackadaisical play we saw in 2024... which will help with the development of every player on the team

Layden Robinson, a guard for the New England Patriots, was named to ESPN's All-Rookie Second-Team for the 2024 season.

As I said Pape, Patriot fans wouldn’t recognize it, but it’s still a fact. And my post isn’t directed at you, but in Patriot fans in general. The ones who are guilty of it know who they are.

The vast majority of players taken after the first round don’t contribute significantly their rookie season. And not even 30% end up becoming significant contributors. So Patriot fans can scream all they want about how they are all busts, but the reality is that it takes at least 2-3 seasons to find out who can play and who can’t. And it’s up to the coaching staffs to turn as many of them as possible into good NFL players. As an example of this just look at Kayshon Boutte ( also known as KayShon Butthole per Patsfan2) who the vast majority of Patriot fans wanted gone his rookie season, and was labeled a “ bust,” but who then turned into a decent contributor this season ( 43-589-3) and who is only 22 years old. No one wants to see him cut now.

People need to have some patience and let things develop and play out, instead of the knee jerk thumbs up or thumbs down we keep seeing. Let the kids develop for a couple of seasons and see who rises and who can’t cut it. IMO that’s not an unreasonable way to look at it.