Brady vs Belichick: The Verdict

[1960Pats]

I think I'm good. It's over and done. A handful of QBs and a failed noob coach later, I'm more than ready for the Vrabel/Maye Era to begin.

I'm also excited for the future of the Pats. The NYFL is the type of league where things can be turned around quickly.

 

[1960Pats]

I still come back to after watching bad coaching in January each year and then seeing it here during the regular season this year, I don't know if Brady could have overcome some of what he dealt with under lesser coaches. Does he still have an incredible career and win a couple rings? Sure, it's possible. Manning managed to win one under Dungy, who certainly wasn't at Belichick's level. But so many coaches do so many stupid things that we laughed at other people for during those years...it's crazy.

Brady's an amazing player, but even at his best he couldn't overcome bad decisions, even here (the Philadelphia SB being that example). I don't known how he could have maintained it after what probably would have been a lot of years coming up short if he played for some of these other guys. Might have also made him think twice about playing into his 40s.

Like PatsFans itself the Pats' Dynasty was a Match Made in Heaven during a Perfect Storm as The Stars Aligned. And it was all for our team. And to top it off my children saw it with me. I still get a big grin on my face when I think about it.

 

[Triumph]

Or BB could have been smart and drafted Lamar Jackson in 2018 when we held TWO first round draft picks and a 41 years old disgruntled QB on a 1 year contract.

Instead he drafted a fat mediocre guard and a backup college RB

True

From an era of winning championships to an era of choking in the cold weather. Can you imagine that Loser in NE.

 

[Triumph]

Nice. How come BB couldn't do the same for other QBs. Or other players.

How come a cheerleading coach like Tomlin has ZERO seasons worse than 8 wins in his 17 years as HC with a rotating cast of QBs, but BB had 7 such seasons in his 10 seasons as HC without Brady (including 2 of his last 4 Pats seasons)? How come BB didn't do his coaching magic on those 10 rosters to atleast 8 wins..............

Why did Tomlin win only 1 Super Bowl with a HOF QB like Ben?

Because he had Bill Cowhers roster.

 

[sb1]

Nice. How come BB couldn't do the same for other QBs. Or other players.

How come a cheerleading coach like Tomlin has ZERO seasons worse than 8 wins in his 17 years as HC with a rotating cast of QBs, but BB had 7 such seasons in his 10 seasons as HC without Brady (including 2 of his last 4 Pats seasons)? How come BB didn't do his coaching magic on those 10 rosters to atleast 8 wins..............

Didn't help that he wanted to play contrarian and hired two of his buddies out of their element to coach offense...it was an experiment to nobody's surprise but Bill's that ended up a complete failure...

The stupidity of that experiment would be like Vrabel hiring Josh McDaniels not to be OC but our new linebackers coach...

 

[signbabybrady]

Didn't help that he wanted to play contrarian and hired two of his buddies out of their element to coach offense...it was an experiment to nobody's surprise but Bill's that ended up a complete failure...

The stupidity of that experiment would be like Vrabel hiring Josh McDaniels not to be OC but our new linebackers coach...

So you're with @Biffins and you think Tomlin is better too?

 

[sb1]

So you're with @Biffins and you think Tomlin is better too?

 

[signbabybrady]

What was your point then?

 

[Triumph]

What was your point then?

 

[condon84]

So just to be clear you think Tomlin is a better coach than Belichick?

Some of these guys will twist themselves into a pretzel with points to argue that it was all Brady.

Imagine, a static QB who needs everyone doing their part on offense for it to work getting all the credit. The way these guys post it's like Brady is running around buying time because his OL isn't well coached and don't their job and receivers can't get open quick enough. It was all Brady! Nevermind the other 2 aspects of the game (defense and STs) that also needs to be great for a team to win SBs.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Nice. How come BB couldn't do the same for other QBs. Or other players.

How come a cheerleading coach like Tomlin has ZERO seasons worse than 8 wins in his 17 years as HC with a rotating cast of QBs, but BB had 7 such seasons in his 10 seasons as HC without Brady (including 2 of his last 4 Pats seasons)? How come BB didn't do his coaching magic on those 10 rosters to atleast 8 wins..............

Well in CLE he took over a bad team that he gradually improved to the point of a playoff team with year-over-year progression. Eventually he got them to the playoffs. Then the bottom fell out the last year with the team moving and all. Over his first 3 years in CLE he had a losing record each time, but the overall direction was positive culminating in that great year 4 with a playoff win. He took over a 3-13 team and not everything is a quick turnaround. It was a slow build for him there. I don't hold that losing record against him for the first 3 years. The last year I chalk up to being a pretty tough situation to coach through with the team moving. They finished 5-11 but they actually started 3-1 and were still .500 when the owner announced the sale. That goes on his record as a losing season just the same though.

In NE, his first year here, he gutted the roster. They played parts of the year with less than 53 guys to help get the cap in order. Similar to CLE, he had a multi year plan in place and year 1 involved taking a step back to go forward. I don't fault him too much for that. The next year he started 0-2 with Bledsoe which is a blemish and definitely makes you ask the question of how much Brady was responsible, even at that stage of his career where he probably wasn't as good an overall player. It was 0-2 with 2 one-score losses, so not exactly like they were incompetent until Brady solved everything, but yeah it's question.

In his later NE years, he did an absolutely terrible job. That's why his record sucked. He was an awful GM over those last few years and the years preceding that. He made it worse by refusing to acknowledge it and properly rebuild like they needed. He chased stop gap QBs in the older, washed up Newton and low ceiling but NFL ready Mac Jones. He refused to go for the multi year rebuilds he did in CLE and NE and it left the roster mired in mediocrity until the bottom fell out his last year. His coaching circle dried up because he's 70+ years old and he didn't have a circle of trust to pull from because at a certain point they stopped developing coaches.

 

[lancerman]

The answer is it was both, but mostly Brady because he's the guy that actually has to go on the field and do it at the most valuable position. We already know a coach can put together the perfect plan and a player can poorly execute. Meanwhile the coach can have a **** plan and a great player can execute and elevate it.

The outcome is via what happens in the execution on the field. Bad teams have let Belichick down in the past. Brady won a Super Bowl with mid coaching and made the playoffs in Tampa with atrocious coaching.

Both matter, but one gets the final say on what happens in a play.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Not that cut and dry.

BB had Bradys successor in Jimmy G, but Kraft forced BB to trade him away. In 2021, Kraft took draft power from BB and somebody picked Alabama sensation Corky Mac Jones. When BB wanted Corky gone in 2022, Kraft said no way Jose.

Lets see what happens in NC and when BB returns to the NFL.

Jimmy G is ass. SO overrated by Pats fans for some reason .

 

[Ring 6]

The answer is it was both, but mostly Brady because he's the guy that actually has to go on the field and do it at the most valuable position. We already know a coach can put together the perfect plan and a player can poorly execute. Meanwhile the coach can have a **** plan and a great player can execute and elevate it.

The outcome is via what happens in the execution on the field. Bad teams have let Belichick down in the past. Brady won a Super Bowl with mid coaching and made the playoffs in Tampa with atrocious coaching.

Both matter, but one gets the final say on what happens in a play.

Belichick also filled the other 52 roster spots so Brady had a team to play with.

 

[Ring 6]

Not that cut and dry.

BB had Bradys successor in Jimmy G, but Kraft forced BB to trade him away. In 2021, Kraft took draft power from BB and somebody picked Alabama sensation Corky Mac Jones. When BB wanted Corky gone in 2022, Kraft said no way Jose.

Lets see what happens in NC and when BB returns to the NFL.

He wasn’t forced to trade Jimmy G, he had to trade him
because his contract was up and they would have gotten nothing for him otherwise

 

[condon84]

The answer is it was both, but mostly Brady because he's the guy that actually has to go on the field and do it at the most valuable position. We already know a coach can put together the perfect plan and a player can poorly execute. Meanwhile the coach can have a **** plan and a great player can execute and elevate it.

The outcome is via what happens in the execution on the field. Bad teams have let Belichick down in the past. Brady won a Super Bowl with mid coaching and made the playoffs in Tampa with atrocious coaching.

Both matter, but one gets the final say on what happens in a play.

Is this a new narrative ya'll running with? A 2x Coach of the Year is a mid HC?

 

[sb1]

The answer is it was both, but mostly Brady because he's the guy that actually has to go on the field and do it at the most valuable position. We already know a coach can put together the perfect plan and a player can poorly execute. Meanwhile the coach can have a **** plan and a great player can execute and elevate it.

The outcome is via what happens in the execution on the field. Bad teams have let Belichick down in the past. Brady won a Super Bowl with mid coaching and made the playoffs in Tampa with atrocious coaching.

Peyton Manning also made a Super Bowl with a sub .300 NCAA HC.

It's the players. Always the players over the coach. Coaches don't step on the field and execute. In Bill's case he had a much bigger say than nearly all other coaches on what players he gets to coach.

Both matter, but one gets the final say on what happens in a play.

This. ^

 

[sb1]

Well in CLE he took over a bad team that he gradually improved to the point of a playoff team with year-over-year progression. Eventually he got them to the playoffs. Then the bottom fell out the last year with the team moving and all. Over his first 3 years in CLE he had a losing record each time, but the overall direction was positive culminating in that great year 4 with a playoff win. He took over a 3-13 team and not everything is a quick turnaround. It was a slow build for him there. I don't hold that losing record against him for the first 3 years. The last year I chalk up to being a pretty tough situation to coach through with the team moving. They finished 5-11 but they actually started 3-1 and were still .500 when the owner announced the sale. That goes on his record as a losing season just the same though.

In NE, his first year here, he gutted the roster. They played parts of the year with less than 53 guys to help get the cap in order. Similar to CLE, he had a multi year plan in place and year 1 involved taking a step back to go forward. I don't fault him too much for that. The next year he started 0-2 with Bledsoe which is a blemish and definitely makes you ask the question of how much Brady was responsible, even at that stage of his career where he probably wasn't as good an overall player. It was 0-2 with 2 one-score losses, so not exactly like they were incompetent until Brady solved everything, but yeah it's question.

In his later NE years, he did an absolutely terrible job. That's why his record sucked. He was an awful GM over those last few years and the years preceding that. He made it worse by refusing to acknowledge it and properly rebuild like they needed. He chased stop gap QBs in the older, washed up Newton and low ceiling but NFL ready Mac Jones. He refused to go for the multi year rebuilds he did in CLE and NE and it left the roster mired in mediocrity until the bottom fell out his last year. His coaching circle dried up because he's 70+ years old and he didn't have a circle of trust to pull from because at a certain point they stopped developing coaches.

His hubris got the best of him in the end. Imagine actually thinking Matt Patricia and Joe Judge were good hires that would help your 2nd year QB and your offense get to the next level.

BuT It WaS aLL MaC JOnEs FauLT!1!!1! Ok, so take it up with the GM of the Patriots at the time who drafted him.

 

[signbabybrady]

Is this a new narrative ya'll running with? A 2x Coach of the Year is a mid HC?

I think he meant Ariens was mid. Then the coaching in Tampa got worse and he still made the playoffs. It certainly was a huge benefit that Brady had 20 years of great coaching to fall back on.

 

[lancerman]

Is this a new narrative ya'll running with? A 2x Coach of the Year is a mid HC?

Bruce Arians is mid yes