Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[hornetfb85]

Lowe and Jacobs are both well below average NFL players. Lowe is a bottom roster guy that can be replaced. Can make a case for Lowe as a swing guy maybe. Jacob’s shouldn’t be on any type of NFL roster.

 

[PatsFan2]

I can't emphasize this point enough. The so-called EP 'system" as it stands today has little to do with a scheme or offensive philosophy. What it is essentially at this point is a LANGUAGE, or communications system, just think back to those 20-year golden era when EP was the the language spoken in Foxboro. Think about the myriads of styles and different points of emphasis we've seen across those years. People forget that we were among the first teams in the league to go with 3 wide outs as a feature formation. one of the first to make 2 TE's an emphasis in a passing offense.

I know that Shanahan and McVay schemes have been all the rage this recently, but there are no schemes, formations, motions or routes that you see in those offenses, that you cannot be copied with the EP language and semantics.

I stress this only because THIS is the basis of the language that Maye has learned, and it would be a step back to make him learn a new one

@Ring 6 @Ken: ok maybe I wasn't clear: I meant we need a Pass Game Coordinator from the Mcvay/Shanahan system. We are coming from the Matt Patricia/AVP Offensive systems... I don't drink but you know. We have poor spacing that was pointed out by Kurt Warner a few moons ago: and people were running into each other and not knowing where to stop of sit. Again to be Clear: we need a Better Pass game Coordinator I can't tell how manys times I get jealous of the better Offenses in the League.

 

[turkeyneck]

I can't emphasize this point enough. The so-called EP 'system" as it stands today has little to do with a scheme or offensive philosophy. What it is essentially at this point is a LANGUAGE, or communications system, just think back to those 20-year golden era when EP was the the language spoken in Foxboro. Think about the myriads of styles and different points of emphasis we've seen across those years. People forget that we were among the first teams in the league to go with 3 wide outs as a feature formation. one of the first to make 2 TE's an emphasis in a passing offense.

I know that Shanahan and McVay schemes have been all the rage this recently, but there are no schemes, formations, motions or routes that you see in those offenses, that you cannot be copied with the EP language and semantics.

I stress this only because THIS is the basis of the language that Maye has learned, and it would be a step back to make him learn a new one

Thank you PFK. I've been resisting the urge to flame on this topic. You're 100% right. People are confusing the plays called with the language used to call the plays. EP is the system of terminology used to specify a play. It's a very efficient and compact nomenclature. But any play, whether from Walsh, Shanahan, McDaniels, Lombardi, or George Halas, can be described using it.

 

[Ring 6]

@Ring 6 @Ken: ok maybe I wasn't clear: I meant we need a Pass Game Coordinator from the Mcvay/Shanahan system. We are coming from the Matt Patricia/AVP Offensive systems... I don't drink but you know. We have poor spacing that was pointed out by Kurt Warner a few moons ago: and people were running into each other and not knowing where to stop of sit. Again to be Clear: we need a Better Pass game Coordinator I can't tell how manys times I get jealous of the better Offenses in the League.

What we did the last 3 years is irrelevant to the future.

Your obsession with the Shanahan system is weird. Please explain what they do that is different than what McDaniel does.

 

[Ross12]

Thank you PFK. I've been resisting the urge to flame on this topic. You're 100% right. People are confusing the plays called with the language used to call the plays. EP is the system of terminology used to specify a play. It's a very efficient and compact nomenclature. But any play, whether from Walsh, Shanahan, McDaniels, Lombardi, or George Halas, can be described using it.

The advantage of EP's language allows the QB a lot more control and ability to take advantage of a defense, especially in no-huddle situations. But the reason for this is because of the density and therefore, complexity. Maye could probably do it, but there would be growing pains, and it's also a burden on the receivers. Not every WR can handle that. If they all can then you are able to win with smarts instead of just athletic ability. That's hard to do, though. In the advent of NIL and guys bouncing around I think the learning curve on a system like that is probably even higher.

 

[manxman2601]

At my highschool we had about three plays run left, run right, and pass. Thing is we practiced those plays 30,000 times so we could run them to perfection.

So not a lot of faith in your interior offensive linemen then?

 

[pazrul72]

So not a lot of faith in your interior offensive linemen then?

Our o line was just ok, mobile and well coached more then big or talented. It was our RBs that were nasty and we had 3 of them. Lots of movement and sweep motions covered by a dive run you had to stay home for or it was going to the house.

 

[PatsFan2]

What we did the last 3 years is irrelevant to the future.

Your obsession with the Shanahan system is weird. Please explain what they do that is different than what McDaniel does.

I like watching Offenses that look like they belong in this century and not in the stone age. To your second question they can get multiple Guys open on the same Routes QB's choice.

Rams 28-22 Patriots (Nov 17, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Los Angeles Rams vs. New England Patriots NFL game from November 17, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all passing, rushing and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

See those catches by Robinson and Tutu Atwell?? Those were the same routes ran by Puka Nacua and Kupp all game I am sure you remember.

 

[Zuma]

The advantage of EP's language allows the QB a lot more control and ability to take advantage of a defense, especially in no-huddle situations. But the reason for this is because of the density and therefore, complexity. Maye could probably do it, but there would be growing pains, and it's also a burden on the receivers. Not every WR can handle that. If they all can then you are able to win with smarts instead of just athletic ability. That's hard to do, though. In the advent of NIL and guys bouncing around I think the learning curve on a system like that is probably even higher.

Also their are variations with each route meaning, the WR can break from route A if their is coverage there and can go to B. This is within the same play call. So the QB and WR need to be on the same page in order to take advantage of the scheme. This is different from WC where the WR is going to run route A no matter what. So it’s not entirely just EP terminology. Maybe McDaniels added route B IDK. This is my understanding.

 

[Rob0729]

I can't emphasize this point enough. The so-called EP 'system" as it stands today has little to do with a scheme or offensive philosophy. What it is essentially at this point is a LANGUAGE, or communications system, just think back to those 20-year golden era when EP was the the language spoken in Foxboro. Think about the myriads of styles and different points of emphasis we've seen across those years. People forget that we were among the first teams in the league to go with 3 wide outs as a feature formation. one of the first to make 2 TE's an emphasis in a passing offense.

I know that Shanahan and McVay schemes have been all the rage this recently, but there are no schemes, formations, motions or routes that you see in those offenses, that you cannot be copied with the EP language and semantics.

I stress this only because THIS is the basis of the language that Maye has learned, and it would be a step back to make him learn a new one

C'mon Ken, I usually agree with you, but you are wrong here. Earhardt-Perkins isn't just terminology, it is a offensive philosophy. It has morphed over the years and decades, but it isn't that it just a terminology thing. Every system has it's own different elements that are specific to that system. Blocking schemes where sometimes you want small quicker linemen (EP) and others you want big maulers. Some systems rely on fast receivers who main job is to get open down the field. Other systems rely on quick receivers who need to get open quickly, but aren't fast down the field. Some systems rely gamesmanship of reading the defense before the play and making play adjustments after the huddle and before the snap. Others have receivers having a set assignment and the QB only having one or two reads.

Whether or not you think McDaniels' system is outdated for today's NFL, you cannot just retrofit it to be like the Shanahan or McVay offense. You can take some elements, but you cannot become it. The philosophies are way too different.

 

[bakes781]

My top choice is McCown but again knowing he might leave for a HC job I'd make sure to bring in Udinski(vikings qb coach) too so there isn't another adjustment down the road. And for DC Terrell Williams. Both names were dropped by Albert Breer on Zo&Bert earlier BTW.

 

[Ross12]

C'mon Ken, I usually agree with you, but you are wrong here. Earhardt-Perkins isn't just terminology, it is a offensive philosophy. It has morphed over the years and decades, but it isn't that it just a terminology thing. Every system has it's own different elements that are specific to that system. Blocking schemes where sometimes you want small quicker linemen (EP) and others you want big maulers. Some systems rely on fast receivers who main job is to get open down the field. Other systems rely on quick receivers who need to get open quickly, but aren't fast down the field. Some systems rely gamesmanship of reading the defense before the play and making play adjustments after the huddle and before the snap. Others have receivers having a set assignment and the QB only having one or two reads.

Whether or not you think McDaniels' system is outdated for today's NFL, you cannot just retrofit it to be like the Shanahan or McVay offense. You can take some elements, but you cannot become it. The philosophies are way too different.

It sounds kinda like you are conflating Josh's scheme preferences with EP.

 

[jboston19]

 

[Rob0729]

It sounds kinda like you are conflating Josh's scheme preferences with EP.

Josh's scheme is a modified or evolved EP.

 

[Ring 6]

I like watching Offenses that look like they belong in this century and not in the stone age. To your second question they can get multiple Guys open on the same Routes QB's choice.

Rams 28-22 Patriots (Nov 17, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Los Angeles Rams vs. New England Patriots NFL game from November 17, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all passing, rushing and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

See those catches by Robinson and Tutu Atwell?? Those were the same routes ran by Puka Nacua and Kupp all game I am sure you remember.

So you think that the lions and Ben Johnson, the Bill and Joe Brady and the broncos and Sean Payton are stone age offenses with their EP systems?
Those offenses seem to get as many receivers open as the rams.

Also there really isn’t such a thing as “QBs choice” in any offense, they are coached to follow progressions and throw to the first in progression.

 

[Ring 6]

There is not a similar philosophy in all EP rooted systems. The lions, bills, broncos and giants run EP systems and their offenses and philosophies are different.
There are many versions of the WCO that all have different philosophies, focuses and very different player criteria.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He might stick if Vrabes wants to run a 3-4 as hes a Dean Pees/Don Martindale guy.

 

[upstater1]

I like watching Offenses that look like they belong in this century and not in the stone age. To your second question they can get multiple Guys open on the same Routes QB's choice.

Rams 28-22 Patriots (Nov 17, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Los Angeles Rams vs. New England Patriots NFL game from November 17, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all passing, rushing and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

See those catches by Robinson and Tutu Atwell?? Those were the same routes ran by Puka Nacua and Kupp all game I am sure you remember.

What a failure for the Rams. They only beat the worst Patriot team since 1991 by 6?

 

[PatsFan2]

What a failure for the Rams. They only beat the worst Patriot team since 1991 by 6?

stater.

 

[PatsFan2]

There is not a similar philosophy in all EP rooted systems. The lions, bills, broncos and giants run EP systems and their offenses and philosophies are different.
There are many versions of the WCO that all have different philosophies, focuses and very different player criteria.

We are on the same Team AJ: any Offense but Jabbar Van Pelt's.