So much for "culture change" ...

[TheRainMaker]

Bryan Cox was brought in to give them the edgy-ness they lacked. He delivered a hit on Pathon in the Colts game that changed how the Pats viewed themselves.

Bill really hit the free agency out of the park on that first off season. Changed the entire tone of the franchise with the guys he brought in. Let's hope the new coach, whoever he is, does the same.

Players rarely hit like this anymore. Most players tackle gracefully.

 

[farn]

fify

His play was easier to watch than his social media font was to read…

 

[Tunescribe]

Players rarely hit like this anymore. Most players tackle gracefully.

I was there, saw it live. That's what you call a "tone-setter" play.

 

[Tunescribe]

This is more the reason I'd like Vrabel.. a guy who helped instil the culture, who walked and talked patriots culture. The culture needs a hard reset and Vrabel has been around the block. Ben Johnson absolutely a wonderful offensive mind. However what could he do for the culture that is a huge question that Highsmith needs to ask emphatically.

Vrabel is that rare combination of what I'd call a compassionate hard-ass. He kicks butts but it's not ego driven on his part. Rather, it stems from hard-earned knowledge that winning demands self-sacrifice. Players love the guy because he's genuine and understands them as an ex-player who has won it all.

 

[rogerthat]

I think Mayo WAS (but probably never will be again) HC material.

Im not sure if Patriot fans remember that Mayo was Belichick's best pupil as a player.

He was just in no way ready at all to be a HC. He needed a lot more experience. And his character came into question when he undermined Belichick in 2023, so he already had a lot against him.

I agree with your larger point though, that we're letting Kraft off the hook by crediting him for admitting he made a mistake. That shouldn't be the issue here. The issue is has he altered the thinking that lead to him making this mistake. The only way to really do that is to leave these decisions to real football people, and by inserting himself, Jonathan, and 2 guys fighting for their jobs (Wolf, etc.) into the process, it just seems like the same thinking as last time is dominating the room.

It may all work out in the end if we end up with a good coach, but the process to get there is no better than flipping a coin to make a decision.

I disagree emphatically. First of all, I really do think that as a football player, Mayo was the single most overrated player that I've ever seen. I was highly critical of him back then... not enough big plays, not enough big plays in big moments, not enough tackles for losses, sacks, turnovers... etc... the stuff that actually win games. Mayo played football a lot like he coached; overly conservative with too much emphasis on 'relationships' (really schmoozing). There is a saying that you can be 99% right and 100% wrong. That's how Mayo played, that's how he coached, and that is why I don't believe that he ever was nor ever will be head coaching material.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

fify

What makes you think Cam Newton? He seemed like a good leader despite the physical regression

 

[Real fan 02]

Vrabel is that rare combination of what I'd call a compassionate hard-ass. He kicks butts but it's not ego driven on his part. Rather, it stems from hard-earned knowledge that winning demands self-sacrifice. Players love the guy because he's genuine and understands them as an ex-player who has won it all.

Absolutely agree with you Boston Sports Journal

 

[p8ryts]

I disagree emphatically. First of all, I really do think that as a football player, Mayo was the single most overrated player that I've ever seen. I was highly critical of him back then... not enough big plays, not enough big plays in big moments, not enough tackles for losses, sacks, turnovers... etc... the stuff that actually win games. Mayo played football a lot like he coached; overly conservative with too much emphasis on 'relationships' (really schmoozing). There is a saying that you can be 99% right and 100% wrong. That's how Mayo played, that's how he coached, and that is why I don't believe that he ever was nor ever will be head coaching material.

My son was always a big Mayo fan, got his jersey. I thought he was more like Jawaun Bentley, competent but not great.

 

[203Pat]

My son was always a big Mayo fan, got his jersey. I thought he was more like Jawaun Bentley, competent but not great.

I always hoped Mayo would be a little more than he was as a player. He was always good but never great and for a top 10 pick I hoped for someone more dynamic than just a tackle machine. I think your Bentley comp is solid which goes to my point. Bentley is a 5th round pick and a solid LB but mainly a tackle complier. Mayo was pretty similar but the 10th overall pick.

 

[TommyD4207]

I always hoped Mayo would be a little more than he was as a player. He was always good but never great and for a top 10 pick I hoped for someone more dynamic than just a tackle machine. I think your Bentley comp is solid which goes to my point. Bentley is a 5th round pick and a solid LB but mainly a tackle complier. Mayo was pretty similar but the 10th overall pick.

If you needed a guy to make a tackle 4 yards downfield, Mayo was your guy.

 

[203Pat]

If you needed a guy to make a tackle 4 yards downfield, Mayo was your guy.

Reminds me of one of my childhood favorites Chris Slade. I remember some local writer/TV guy saying something along the lines of "No one celebrates a tackle made after 5 yards like Chris Slade".

 

[rogerthat]

Reminds me of one of my childhood favorites Chris Slade. I remember some local writer/TV guy saying something along the lines of "No one celebrates a tackle made after 5 yards like Chris Slade".

IMO Slade was a better player than Mayo was, especially in his prime.

 

[203Pat]

IMO Slade was a better player than Mayo was, especially in his prime.

I wouldn't really argue that. Slade was a little bit of a different type of player but was more dynamic than Mayo was.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Players rarely hit like this anymore. Most players tackle gracefully.

Is that what they’re calling it now?

 

[rogerthat]

If you needed a guy to make a tackle 4 yards downfield, Mayo was your guy.

Yup. I would call him the poor man's linebacker version of Devin McCourty. Except McCourty was better, imo. That being said, I wouldn't call him a nothing as a player, just not the type of player that wins you football games. He was the type of player that doesn't lose football games. These guys have some value, and on some teams guys like this are really nice to have. However, me personally, I would never build a team around a player like this.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I always hoped Mayo would be a little more than he was as a player. He was always good but never great and for a top 10 pick I hoped for someone more dynamic than just a tackle machine. I think your Bentley comp is solid which goes to my point. Bentley is a 5th round pick and a solid LB but mainly a tackle complier. Mayo was pretty similar but the 10th overall pick.

Curtis Lofton who was drafted in the 2nd round that year was a way better value than Mayo was at 10. LB was a massive need, but T was also a need after what just happened in SB42. Clady was mocked to the Pats and should've been the pick.

If you needed a guy to make a tackle 4 yards downfield, Mayo was your guy.

A lot of people don't notice this about him. @captain stone pointed out how he was a big factor why they lost against Seattle in 2012. I looked at the highlights of the game and he stood out in a bad way. He's slow reacting to plays and wasn't as fast as advertised at 4.5. Throughout his career I noticed he'd make a lot of tackles after the damage was already done. Very little impact as a MLB when he had Wilfork his entire career in the middle, Seymour for a year and surrounded by Spikes, HT and Jones.

Reminds me of one of my childhood favorites Chris Slade. I remember some local writer/TV guy saying something along the lines of "No one celebrates a tackle made after 5 yards like Chris Slade".

Lawyer Milloy was the king of this. He loved to do his signature first pump celebration whether he stopped someone for a 1 yard or a 40 yard gain.

IMO Slade was a better player than Mayo was, especially in his prime.

Agree. Different players. Slade was an edge guy who put his hand in the dirt on passing downs.

Is that what they’re calling it now?

It certainly looks like it. Too many players dragging guys down.

 

[Real fan 02]

My son was always a big Mayo fan, got his jersey. I thought he was more like Jawaun Bentley, competent but not great.

Mayo was a great player in his short time as a pro.. injuries really shortened his career had he played longer like say Bruschi or others I think he would have accomplished more.

 

[Real fan 02]

This isn't a list of...leaders...is it?

I'm sorry.. Tavai... now he's leading the list...

 

[Real fan 02]

Curtis Lofton who was drafted in the 2nd round that year was a way better value than Mayo was a 10. LB was a massive need, but T was also a need after what just happened in SB42. Clady was mocked to the Pats and should've been the pick.

A lot of people don't notice this about him. @captain stone pointed out how he was a big factor why they lost against Seattle in 2012. I looked at the highlights of the game and he stood out in a bad way. He's slow reacting to plays and wasn't as fast as advertised at 4.5. Throughout his career I noticed he'd make a lot of tackles after the damage was already done. Very little impact as a MLB when he had Wilfork his entire career in the middle, Seymour for a year and surrounding by Spikes, HT and Jones.

Lawyer Milloy was the king of this. He loved to do his signature first pump celebration whether he stopped someone for a 1 yard or a 40 yard gain.

Agree. Different players. Slade was an edge guy who put his hand in the dirt on passing downs.

It certainly looks like it. Too many players dragging guys down.

I'd say Mayo had some significant Knee injuries that affected his career. He was lost in 2009 for an ACL I believe..

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'd say Mayo had some significant Knee injuries that affected his career. He was lost in 2009 for an ACL I believe..

He had a sprain MCL. He started falling off a cliff after the 2012 season.