So much for "culture change" ...

[Bill Lee]

Ben Johnson absolutely a wonderful offensive mind. However what could he do for the culture that is a huge question that Highsmith needs to ask emphatically.

The read on him isn't great in terms of leadership.

He's a brilliant play caller but mostly works behind a closed door drawing up new plays, not a rah-rah culture guy.

Also IMO a first-time coach is the wrong move for this team at this time.

I'm less excited about Vrabel than some here, but do think he's the best candidate on the market.

I love Florez's ability to turn around a defense but think he's not a great HC and not a great fit for a team that needs to develop offensively.

 

[Bill Lee]

It'll be helpful but whomever the coach is needs talent- badly.

Right, the only Pro Bowler on the whole team is Schooler, a special teams guy.

The overall talent level is pretty darn low.

I think the best option is for Vrabel to become HC and for him to bring in his choice of GM.

 

[Steve102]

In addition to your list, it's cool to look at the 2001 roster. A lot of strong leaders, or "lead by example" types. Joe Andruzzi. Bobby Hamilton. Matt Light. Roman Phifer. Anthony Pleasant. Damien Woody. Even Brian Cox, who some people were pretty meh about, led in his own off-beat way. I guess Ted Johnson is not very popular these days but back in the day I thought of him as a leader.

Bryan Cox was brought in to give them the edgy-ness they lacked. He delivered a hit on Pathon in the Colts game that changed how the Pats viewed themselves.

Bill really hit the free agency out of the park on that first off season. Changed the entire tone of the franchise with the guys he brought in. Let's hope the new coach, whoever he is, does the same.

 

[203Pat]

In addition to your list, it's cool to look at the 2001 roster. A lot of strong leaders, or "lead by example" types. Joe Andruzzi. Bobby Hamilton. Matt Light. Roman Phifer. Anthony Pleasant. Damien Woody. Even Brian Cox, who some people were pretty meh about, led in his own off-beat way. I guess Ted Johnson is not very popular these days but back in the day I thought of him as a leader.

I remember Bryan Cox not playing in that Rams Super Bowl and what a big deal some made out of it but with that offense it was the right call.

I remember when Bill took over in 2000 there was talk he apparently didn't think there was even 53 NFL players on the roster and I think we may have played some games that year with less than a 53 man roster. To this day I still find that strange because a big chunk of the core of those early Super Bowl teams was already on the team in 2000. Troy Brown, McGinest, Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, and then some role players like Faulk, Vinatieri, and Ted Johnson were all in place.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bryan Cox was brought in to give them the edgy-ness they lacked. He delivered a hit on Pathon in the Colts game that changed how the Pats viewed themselves.

Bill really hit the free agency out of the park on that first off season. Changed the entire tone of the franchise with the guys he brought in. Let's hope the new coach, whoever he is, does the same.

Not sure they would call him for a 15 yarder on that. A violent, but clean hit.

 

[Real fan 02]

The read on him isn't great in terms of leadership.

He's a brilliant play caller but mostly works behind a closed door drawing up new plays, not a rah-rah culture guy.

Also IMO a first-time coach is the wrong move for this team at this time.

I'm less excited about Vrabel than some here, but do think he's the best candidate on the market.

I love Florez's ability to turn around a defense but think he's not a great HC and not a great fit for a team that needs to develop offensively.

Yes. The WEEI afternoon show mentioned this yesterday. Flores absolutely unquestionably a great DC.. sometimes guys are better coordinators than HCs and that's perfectly fine. We need a firm voice not someone who going be a buddy.. nothing wrong with relating to the players and treating them as men but it has to be a line drawn. Vrabel just feels right. I was iffy initially as I wanted an offensive minded coach. However Vrabel did unlock D. Henry and allowed Tannhill to play sound football. Your opinion is correct on a first time HC. Remember brady is trying to lure him to LV.. we have a QB and plenty of $$$ to spend in FA.

 

[Steve102]

I remember Bryan Cox not playing in that Rams Super Bowl and what a big deal some made out of it but with that offense it was the right call.

I remember when Bill took over in 2000 there was talk he apparently didn't think there was even 53 NFL players on the roster and I think we may have played some games that year with less than a 53 man roster. To this day I still find that strange because a big chunk of the core of those early Super Bowl teams was already on the team in 2000. Troy Brown, McGinest, Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, and then some role players like Faulk, Vinatieri, and Ted Johnson were all in place.

My memory was/is that Cox was nicked up down the stretch and played very little, but was a positive locker room presence.

 

[Dec54]

He's better than any of our WRs. He's better than the running backs at catching the ball. I think we take Henry for granted because he's not Gronk.

He's not really an NFL star. But he's the best our offense can do.

A Pat's star then

 

[imahobgoblin]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

There is a difference between the guys you list and the guys Urban Meyer listed in that video. The Pats locker rooms of old could back up their words with their play on the field. The reason there were enforcers in the locker room work is because their play was their credibility. No one wants to follow or listen to a blow hard who cannot play well.

There is a difference between being a nice guy like D. Wise, and backing it up on the field. His play does nothing to command respect. And no I am not dumping on him, but he is a JAG. I have no issues bringing him back in 2025 because we need bodies and he is not bad. No one is respecting Peppers for a while. Dugger was atrocious this year as was Jones. Bentley couldn't get on the field, and Taivai is a ding dong.

Drake and Hunter are the only two in this list. One is a kid and one is an old man. I love both, but this team needs to be gutted and new leaders need emerge. The long way is through the draft and the short way is signing the right free agents. No matter what, the coach has to set the tone. This is why Vrabel is so attractive. He puts the bull in Vrabel and will take no trash. The key to the future will be having one enforcer in each position group.

 

[203Pat]

My memory was/is that Cox was nicked up down the stretch and played very little, but was a positive locker room presence.

Very well could have been the case. I don't really remember at this point I just remember he didn't play and as a high school linebacker at the time I loved Bryan Cox.

 

[Real fan 02]

There is a difference between the guys you list and the guys Urban Meyer listed in that video. The Pats locker rooms of old could back up their words with their play on the field. The reason there were enforcers in the locker room work is because their play was their credibility. No one wants to follow or listen to a blow hard who cannot play well.

There is a difference between being a nice guy like D. Wise, and backing it up on the field. His play does nothing to command respect. And no I am not dumping on him, but he is a JAG. I have no issues bringing him back in 2025 because we need bodies and he is not bad. No one is respecting Peppers for a while. Dugger was atrocious this year as was Jones. Bentley couldn't get on the field, and Taivai is a ding dong.

Drake and Hunter are the only two in this list. One is a kid and one is an old man. I love both, but this team needs to be gutted and new leaders need emerge. The long way is through the draft and the short way is signing the right free agents. No matter what, the coach has to set the tone. This is why Vrabel is so attractive. He puts the bull in Vrabel and will take no trash. The key to the future will be having one enforcer in each position group.

I totally agree with you. I'll add on peppers I believe he still has the respect. He was involved in something and he owned up to it. He even went and told the organization he wanted to earn his captaincy back by his efforts. I have to commend him on that. I'm with you percent on Vrabel it is a culture that needs to be reset in my opinion he's just the guy.

 

[Bill Lee]

Bryan Cox was brought in to give them the edgy-ness they lacked. He delivered a hit on Pathon in the Colts game that changed how the Pats viewed themselves.

That clip is amazing! Just look how his team mates react! They know they're playing with a bad-ass dude!

Bill really hit the free agency out of the park on that first off season. Changed the entire tone of the franchise with the guys he brought in. Let's hope the new coach, whoever he is, does the same.

That's why I want Vrabel to bring in his own GM. I'm not as down on Wolf as some. He did what many GMs fail to do, hit on his quarterback picks. Yet, overall, he blew some pretty clear cut chances to bring in better WR and OL talent.

I want whomever the new coach is to know he's picking the groceries.

 

[Real fan 02]

That clip is amazing! Just look how his team mates react! They know they're playing with a bad-ass dude!



That's why I want Vrabel to bring in his own GM. I'm not as down on Wolf as some. He did what many GMs fail to do, hit on his quarterback picks. Yet, overall, he blew some pretty clear cut chances to bring in better WR and OL talent.

I want whomever the new coach is to know he's picking the groceries.

You'll find this interesting.

 

[Wax Frog]

@signbabybrady - it's OK, Tuggy Bob is confused too!

 

[signbabybrady]

@signbabybrady - it's OK, Tuggy Bob is confused too!

I'm still confused

 

[Wax Frog]

I'm still confused

If Arch is along for the ride, mission accomplished!

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

What a loser lol

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Bryan Cox was brought in to give them the edgy-ness they lacked. He delivered a hit on Pathon in the Colts game that changed how the Pats viewed themselves.

Bill really hit the free agency out of the park on that first off season. Changed the entire tone of the franchise with the guys he brought in. Let's hope the new coach, whoever he is, does the same.

Holy crap, I remember that now, but a shock to see that again. I miss real football. And I say that as a 6 foot 180 pound unmuscular and unathletic guy who would have wound up in the ER after that hit….

 

[captain stone]

It deteriorated the moment Scam Newton joined their ranks.

fify

 

[captain stone]

D. Wise, peppers, dugger, j.jones, schooler, Bentley, Tavai, Drake, Henry...

This isn't a list of...leaders...is it?