Cool Link Interesting Mayo article from Mike Giardi

[Steve102]

I'm someone who subscribes to the opposite of this.

We've seen too many coaching turnarounds with the same players.

Ty Law, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Lawyer Milloy, Ted Johnson, Damien Woody, etc. were all a part of a Patriots team that got worse every single year, all a part of a team collectively labeled the worst talent in the NFL.

Yet they experienced a coaching turnaround from Pete Carroll who was getting worse and worse every year.

I do agree with your general point that you need some talent, especially at the QB position. But I believe a coach and a QB are worth 4 wins each in this league.

You can have a lot of talent and a bad coach and end up like the Cowboys.
You can have a lot of talent and a bad QB and end up like the Jaguars.
If you have bad coaching and a bad QB, well...

I dunno. My experience is good coaching of great players makes for a brilliant coach. A brilliant coach without great players is an unemployed coach.

 

[PatsFan2]

I do not like the part of the article that emphasizes lack of player development simply because it puts all the onus on the coaches. We've seen this before. Remember when Troy Brown was critiqued for NKeal Harry and Tyquan Thornton's inabilities? I'm not saying Troy is great, but with Polk, his display this year was not unexpected by many.

I am not going to lie I didn't hate the Polk pick: I think he can work out with proper Coaching and him working his @ss off. Call it a hunch I still feel there's a player inside Polk's head: He completely lost his confidence. We need a HC and and WR Coach to help him regain his confidence: Polk have the make up of a decent possession Receiver. I mean look at K Boutte him and Polk are similar players: Boute had a surprisingly good Sophomore year. Let's be honest Rookies get two years right off the bat. IF we can get a guy like Higgins in FA I think Polk would shine in that afterthought role. Polk shined at Washington in a rotation with Rome Odunze and Jalen McMillan... again I'm not giving up just yet.

 

[maust]

Never asked you to delete anything, just offering a criticism. I never even said anything about my position. I was just speaking to you as a fellow poster. Not sure why you are flying off the handle.

I'm reminded of the words of my sainted Mother, "Seldom does anything good happen after 1 am"

 

[upstater1]

I am not going to lie I didn't hate the Polk pick: I think he can work out with proper Coaching and him working his @ss off. Call it a hunch I still feel there's a player inside Polk's head: He completely lost his confidence. We need a HC and and WR Coach to help him regain his confidence Polk have the make up of a decent possession Receiver. I mean look at K Boutte him and Polk are similar players: Boute had a surprisingly good Sophomore year. Let's be honest Rookies get two years right off the bat. IF we can get a guy like Higgins in FA I think Polk would shine in that afterthought role. Polk shined at Washington in a rotation with Rome Odunze and Jalen McMillan... again I'm not giving up just yet.

Well, we simply disagree. I had Polk as a bust long before he was a Patriot. In other words, don't hold your breath!

 

[upstater1]

I dunno. My experience is good coaching of great players makes for a brilliant coach. A brilliant coach without great players is an unemployed coach.

It does not seem we're actually disagreeing here.

The only point I was making is that it's not clear you actually have good players until you have a good coach. You might have talented players who look like schlubs under a bad coach.

All the guys I mentioned above were once heavily criticized as being bad players.

 

[PatsFan2]

Well, we simply disagree. I had Polk as a bust long before he was a Patriot. In other words, don't hold your breath!

I see your points stater: but remember we had a Rookie OC who wasn't very good at play designs. I hope our Next HC Brings his own OC I want nothing to do with Jabbar Van Pelt. I am hearing good things about that Tommy Rees Guy in Cleveland: he's their pass game specialist.

 

[upstater1]

I see your points stater: but remember we had a Rookie OC who wasn't very good at play designs. I hope our Next HC Brings his own OC I want nothing to do with Jabbar Van Pelt. I am hearing good things about that Tommy Rees Guy in Cleveland: he's their pass game specialist.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I could easily be wrong. There's some Dunning-Kruger at work here since I'm not a pro. I only watch a lot. But my views are further reinforced by where both Polk and Wallace were slated to go in the draft, so I'm not alone on this.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm not saying it's not possible. I could easily be wrong. There's some Dunning-Kruger at work here since I'm not a pro. I only watch a lot. But my views are further reinforced by where both Polk and Wallace were slated to go in the draft, so I'm not alone on this.

So we Reached a Round for Caedan Wallace: but he does have the ceiling for a competent RT.

Caedan Wallace Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Polk is listed as slow not sudden at all and telegraph his breaks. How does he have so much warts: yet still had a Round 2 Projection?? Seems like the Scouts were all wrong on him oh well.

Ja'Lynn Polk Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

 

[upstater1]

So we Reached a Round for Caedan Wallace: but he does have the ceiling for a competent RT.

Caedan Wallace Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Polk is listed as slow not sudden at all and telegraph his breaks. How does he have so much warts: yet still had a Round 2 Projecting?? Seems like the Scouts were all wrong on him oh well.

Ja'Lynn Polk Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

It depends on what the scouts are saying to local media. A lot of times they're just lying. Suckers take the bait.

Wallace, in all the mocks I've seen, was a 5th or 6th rounder.

I watched him at PSU and always thought he was slow of foot. He's like Marcus Cannon (who was also slow) but without Cannon's technical skills. I don't think he will ever be a starter in the NFL.

 

[PatsFan2]

It depends on what the scouts are saying to local media. A lot of times they're just lying. Suckers take the bait.

Wallace, in all the mocks I've seen, was a 5th or 6th rounder.

I watched him at PSU and always thought he was slow of foot. He's like Marcus Cannon (who was also slow) but without Cannon's technical skills. I don't think he will ever be a starter in the NFL.

stater I think you're better than the Patriots current GM and Scouts.

 

[Clonamery]

I'm reminded of the words of my sainted Mother, "Seldom does anything good happen after 1 am"

I would never question Saint Mama Maust but she did leave us a swinging door of a word (Seldom) to hang our great times in the still of the night's hat on.

 

[upstater1]

stater I think you're better than the Patriots current GM and Scouts.

Um, that's what scares me. I don't know what the scouts told them.

It very well could be that Wallace was best tackle left and that Wolf was outflanked and panicked.

If you look at the draft, a lot of WRs were taken before Polk (although McConkey was right there for us) and a lot of tackles were taken right before Wallace.

I don't know which is worse, a GM who can't assess tackles and WRs properly, or a GM who is thoroughly beaten by his peers in attempts to acquire better WRs and Tackles.

Im going to say that I believe it's the former, since McConkey was right there and he didn't want him.

 

[PatsFan2]

Um, that's what scares me. I don't know what the scouts told them.

It very well could be that Wallace was best tackle left and that Wolf was outflanked and panicked.

If you look at the draft, a lot of WRs were taken before Polk (although McConkey was right there for us) and a lot of tackles were taken right before Wallace.

I don't know which is worse, a GM who can't assess tackles and WRs properly, or a GM who is thoroughly beaten by his peers in attempts to acquire better WRs and Tackles.

I'm going to say that I believe it's the former, since McConkey was right there and he didn't want him.

That's why I'm all for staying Pat this year no pun. Hey look at that projection why are we not picking Fourth in the Second and Third Rounds??

https://gbnreport.com/2025-projection/

 

[RobertWeathers]

Um, that's what scares me. I don't know what the scouts told them.

It very well could be that Wallace was best tackle left and that Wolf was outflanked and panicked.

If you look at the draft, a lot of WRs were taken before Polk (although McConkey was right there for us) and a lot of tackles were taken right before Wallace.

I don't know which is worse, a GM who can't assess tackles and WRs properly, or a GM who is thoroughly beaten by his peers in attempts to acquire better WRs and Tackles.

Im going to say that I believe it's the former, since McConkey was right there and he didn't want him.

As you know I also follow PSU closely and I thought Wallace was "OK". He could be a decent RT. Not sure yet.

 

[PatsFan2]

As you know I also follow PSU closely and I thought Wallace was "OK". He could be a decent RT. Not sure yet.

Hopefully we can find a Diamond in the rough RT on Day 3. That said we have some players who should work their @sses off this Offseaon and come in in the best shape possible Caedan Wallace is one of them.

 

[upstater1]

As you know I also follow PSU closely and I thought Wallace was "OK". He could be a decent RT. Not sure yet.

PSU has had so many troubles on offense in recent years that it's really hard to figure out whether it's the coaching or players. A lot of talent and lack of production.

This is why Wallace I thought was victimized so often.

But he was also displaced by a true freshman in Fashanu who is very raw. Honestly Im not sure what's going to happen with Fashanu. There is a decent chance he busts. I love PSU's RBs and CBs and Ss, but I tend to shy away from taking DEs, DLs from PSU under Franklin. I know Chop Robinson was a huge success but he's an anomaly.

Penn State used to be the top school for OL and LBs. But this Franklin team (you can tell I'm not a Franklin fan) leaves something to be desired. And I say that crediting Franklin as a great recruiter.

 

[maust]

I would never question Saint Mama Maust but she did leave us a swinging door of a word (Seldom) to hang our great times in the still of the night's hat on.

Having bartended in Boston while I was in college I was aware she knew what she was doing choosing her words. If she said "Nothing good ever happens after 1 am" I'd have dismissed it out of hand. Using 'seldom' though, that showed me she still had her fastball.

 

[RobertWeathers]

PSU has had so many troubles on offense in recent years that it's really hard to figure out whether it's the coaching or players. A lot of talent and lack of production.

This is why Wallace I thought was victimized so often.

But he was also displaced by a true freshman in Fashanu who is very raw. Honestly Im not sure what's going to happen with Fashanu. There is a decent chance he busts. I love PSU's RBs and CBs and WRs, but I tend to shy away from taking DEs, DLs from PSU under Franklin. I know Chop Robinson was a huge success but he's an anomaly.

Penn State used to be the top school for OL and LBs. But this Franklin team (you can tell I'm not a Franklin fan) leaves something to be desired. And I say that crediting Franklin as a great recruiter.

....and having KA, and Singleton running behind you can make you look good.

Yea Olu is in purgatory in NY. Not sure either.

But their O was so f-ed up last year. Not sure if the line of the scheme was to blame. Plus it was Aller's 1st year as a starter. I dunno...

Don't forget about Micha at LB.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Did you hit your head?

No, but Belichick must have been concussed when he made those picks.

 

[upstater1]

No, but Belichick must have been concussed when he made those picks.

You already responded to that yesterday. Did you hit your head again?