So much for "culture change" ...

[Hammer of Thor]

You have nailed this! This is it. I think Bill knew Mac was not it in his first season. That Bills game where he threw for like one time told me all I needed to know about their future. They were not going to be together long.

In retrospect, that game seemed to be the very definition of winning the battle, but losing the war. Bill’s coaching genius was in full display there, and after that game they were 9-4 and the #1 seed in the AFC. But to the extent that other teams hadn’t fully figured it out yet, it told them that Bill does not trust Mac’s arm strength at all, even for short passes in the wind. So opponents (except the Jags, who just weren’t good at all and had just fired Urban Meyer) started flooding the box and outside, and Mac’s offensive production took a major dip at that point.

I suppose you can say that if they let Mac throw it that game, it would have been on display to everyone, so it wouldn’t have made a difference. Well, the difference is that opponents now knew that Belichick agreed with that assessment, and that Mac wasn’t holding anything back for strategic reasons. Belichick might have outsmarted himself there.

 

[RobertWeathers]

All this culture talk....

 

[Betterthanmost]

In retrospect, that game seemed to be the very definition of winning the battle, but losing the war. Bill’s coaching genius was in full display there, and after that game they were 9-4 and the #1 seed in the AFC. But to the extent that other teams hadn’t fully figured it out yet, it told them that Bill does not trust Mac’s arm strength at all, even for short passes in the wind. So opponents (except the Jags, who just weren’t good at all and had just fired Urban Meyer) started flooding the box and outside, and Mac’s offensive production took a major dip at that point.

I suppose you can say that if they let Mac throw it that game, it would have been on display to everyone, so it wouldn’t have made a difference. Well, the difference is that opponents now knew that Belichick agreed with that assessment, and that Mac wasn’t holding anything back for strategic reasons. Belichick might have outsmarted himself there.

Very good post. You have summed it up perfectly. Was it that off season that Mac went and worked with the throwing guru? He may be a hack lol. Mac should request a refund.

 

[Wax Frog]

All this culture talk....

AI plus this forum equals me like a kid in a candy store!

Robert Kraft dressed as Boy George via Grok:@Pape @Steve102

 

[rogerthat]

I think there are some real leaders there. I'd say Strange, too, the way he gutted through his injury two seasons ago.

I think the new HC is going to challenge a lot of the others. And we're going to see who is part of the new Pats culture and who need to be thrown out with the bad Mayo.

I like Cole Strange as a football player, too.

 

[Toofy]

100%.. everyone would want a high octane offense. However the culture in Detroit was built first then the players were added as they went on. I'm trying to look at this from a team perspective. Drake and the offense weren't necessarily the problem.. it was the inability to not stop anything an offense does this season. As I've said the defense is mostly disappointing. Vrabel will have his imprint all over the defense.

Why can't we get Saleh to establish defense culture . I thought he was wrongly canned and was solid in 49ers and also in defense for jets.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Why can't we get Saleh to establish defense culture . I thought he was wrongly canned and was solid in 49ers and also in defense for jets.

If Vrabel or Johnson want him, that’s fine by me. Let’s get a HC and then figure out coordinators.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I think there are some real leaders there. I'd say Strange, too, the way he gutted through his injury two seasons ago.

I think the new HC is going to challenge a lot of the others. And we're going to see who is part of the new Pats culture and who need to be thrown out with the bad Mayo.

Andrews is DEFINITELY A LEADER, he's smart/Tough, and a TOTAL TEAM PLAYER.
Strange has been bagged on since he was drafted, he tried to come back too early IMO.
That was pretty significant leg whip he got. He's pretty fkn tough.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

That's sensible. I just always loved the way peppers plays he reminds me so much like Harrison. He played hurt.. guy overcame 2 serious Knee injuries. I firmly believe he will be reinserted where he belongs as a team leader next season even if he's not named captain.

I’d like him to eventually be resigned. People **** up, I know. Sucks he was out as I’m sure it helped the d tank. Wasn’t the reason but contributed.

AI plus this forum equals me like a kid in a candy store!

Robert Kraft dressed as Boy George via Grok:@Pape @Steve102

Can we get a vomit emoji please? For the love of Christ..

 

[Real fan 02]

I’d like him to eventually be resigned. People **** up, I know. Sucks he was out as I’m sure it helped the d tank. Wasn’t the reason but contributed.



Can we get a vomit emoji please? For the love of Christ..

Pep is under contract he signed a 3 year extension in camp. He's part of the plans going forward. From what I understand he's been a absolute team leader on and off the field. Yeah he had the situation wich pretty much looks favorable to him getting through it.

 

[Real fan 02]

Why can't we get Saleh to establish defense culture . I thought he was wrongly canned and was solid in 49ers and also in defense for jets.

He was. Another guy that I think shanny gave up on too soon was Mike wilks all he did was help take the SF defense to the superbowl and should have won.

 

[203Pat]

 

[neckroll#14]

wtf? as ridiculous as it is to have the HC do something like this, at some point the responsibility must be laid at Thunder's feet for ever having thought for a second that Mayo was HC material...

 

[Real fan 02]

It's plain to see that there were internal issues that led to Mayo's firing.

 

[203Pat]

 

[Real fan 02]

wtf? as ridiculous as it is to have the HC do something like this, at some point the responsibility must be laid at Thunder's feet for ever having thought for a second that Mayo was HC material...

I think it became obvious mayo wasn't ready. I felt bad initially he was fired but there had to be strong reasons behind it moving on after just 1 season.. this is certainly part of it.. then you look at how the team regressed on the field we see it was more than just the roster talent.

 

[203Pat]

Chad Graff's article in The Athletic pretty much sums up what most of knew. Mayo wasn't ready, tried too hard to be the anti-Bill, couldn't instill discipline, and had no one to lean on due to his lack of connections outside of Foxboro. Kraft definitely set Mayo up for failure but it seems Mayo didn't do much with the opportunity either. What a mess.

 

[upstater1]

In retrospect, that game seemed to be the very definition of winning the battle, but losing the war. Bill’s coaching genius was in full display there, and after that game they were 9-4 and the #1 seed in the AFC. But to the extent that other teams hadn’t fully figured it out yet, it told them that Bill does not trust Mac’s arm strength at all, even for short passes in the wind. So opponents (except the Jags, who just weren’t good at all and had just fired Urban Meyer) started flooding the box and outside, and Mac’s offensive production took a major dip at that point.

I suppose you can say that if they let Mac throw it that game, it would have been on display to everyone, so it wouldn’t have made a difference. Well, the difference is that opponents now knew that Belichick agreed with that assessment, and that Mac wasn’t holding anything back for strategic reasons. Belichick might have outsmarted himself there.

Really just impossible conditions. I was in the stadium. I saw balls going sideways as soon as they left the kicker's foot. Like spitting into the face of a hurricane.

The strongest armed QB in football, Allen, threw 30 times for 140 yards, completing 50% of his passes. 4.5 yards per pass!

It was something to behold.

By the way, it looked to me like opposing coaches flooded the MIDDLE of the field, not the boundaries, once they figured out Mac didn't have the arm to throw there.

I believe the reason Mac had a dip in the last 8 games of the season was because 4 of the games were against AFCE opponents.

There was just a lot of scouting, a lot of stuff known about him at that point.

This is going to happen to Maye at some point next year. Coaches do not yet have a read on him.

Think of Brady's year in 2002-2003. It was a lot less successful than the previous year.

It's what QBs do AFTER DCs figure them out that counts.

Carson Wentz went from MVP candidate to absolute dud once they knew what to do to him.

 

[Bill Lee]

Early on, it was McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Vrabel... Later it was Brady, McCourty, and Slate. Brady didn't walk in here as the alpha.

In addition to your list, it's cool to look at the 2001 roster. A lot of strong leaders, or "lead by example" types. Joe Andruzzi. Bobby Hamilton. Matt Light. Roman Phifer. Anthony Pleasant. Damien Woody. Even Brian Cox, who some people were pretty meh about, led in his own off-beat way. I guess Ted Johnson is not very popular these days but back in the day I thought of him as a leader.

 

[upstater1]

wtf? as ridiculous as it is to have the HC do something like this, at some point the responsibility must be laid at Thunder's feet for ever having thought for a second that Mayo was HC material...

I think Mayo WAS (but probably never will be again) HC material.

Im not sure if Patriot fans remember that Mayo was Belichick's best pupil as a player.

He was just in no way ready at all to be a HC. He needed a lot more experience. And his character came into question when he undermined Belichick in 2023, so he already had a lot against him.

I agree with your larger point though, that we're letting Kraft off the hook by crediting him for admitting he made a mistake. That shouldn't be the issue here. The issue is has he altered the thinking that lead to him making this mistake. The only way to really do that is to leave these decisions to real football people, and by inserting himself, Jonathan, and 2 guys fighting for their jobs (Wolf, etc.) into the process, it just seems like the same thinking as last time is dominating the room.

It may all work out in the end if we end up with a good coach, but the process to get there is no better than flipping a coin to make a decision.