PATRIOTS NEWS Jerod Mayo FIRED per Schefter

[VrabelJr]

First post in a while because people like sb1 and feisty1986 are ruining this place with an impressive volume of absolute dogshit. Anyways, first things first: I told you so. I am not a genius, however. It doesn't take much intelligence to recognize that a person that backstabs the very coach that gave them their coaching start is likely a charlatan. While I could expound on how obvious this season's calamity was and what a big mistake firing BB was I'll spare you all that and look to the future instead.

I don't hold much hope Kraft(s) will get it right this time unless they change their approach and involve actual football people. Right now our beloved Patriots are a football team without any semblance of a functioning football operation for over a year. Let that sink in. In that vein I lean towards a Mike Vrabel or Brian Flores who I have more faith that can build us a program again and either lead us to a Super Bowl themselves or plant the seeds for the next person.

Lack of experience running a program from head to toe doesn't preclude any of the interesting coordinator candidates, but I'm not sure the Krafts operate with enough rigor and unique thought to find the right one. The NFL is a copy cat league and being late to the copying rarely leads to good results (see: many teams trying to superficially copy our success for two decades).

While all roads point to Ben Johnson you really need to figure out if he can do more than just draw up clever plays. Dan Campbell has a lot of Assistant HC and now HC experience so I suspect he is shielding Johnson from a lot of responsibilities. As a counterexample consider Kevin O'Connell's incredible ascension. McVay scooped him up three days after Ron Rivera took over the Redskins and fired him, despite KOC's offense only putting up 255 points that season. A good amount of KOC's success can be attributed to knowing how to surround himself with other great coaches.

It's a modern day meme to think we must hire an OC to be competitive but a quick survey of the playoff field shows that out of 14 HCs there are 6 HCs from defensive backgrounds, and 2 HCs that are more hybrid (Jim Harbaugh, Dan Campbell). This makes a perfect split of offensive and defensive minded HCs in the playoffs.

All this to say that great HCs come in all shapes, sizes, and experiences. I just hope for our sake as fans that the Krafts dig deep this time.

 

[festy1986]

First post in a while because people like sb1 and feisty1986 are ruining this place with an impressive volume of absolute dogshit.

festy1986*

 

[n1997y]

…
I don't hold much hope Kraft(s) will get it right this time unless they change their approach and involve actual football people. Right now our beloved Patriots are a football team without any semblance of a functioning football operation for over a year. Let that sink in. In that vein I lean towards a Mike Vrabel or Brian Flores who I have more faith that can build us a program again and either lead us to a Super Bowl themselves or plant the seeds for the next person.

Lack of experience running a program from head to toe doesn't preclude any of the interesting coordinator candidates, but I'm not sure the Krafts operate with enough rigor and unique thought to find the right one. The NFL is a copy cat league and being late to the copying rarely leads to good results (see: many teams trying to superficially copy our success for two decades).

While all roads point to Ben Johnson you really need to figure out if he can do more than just draw up clever plays. Dan Campbell has a lot of Assistant HC and now HC experience so I suspect he is shielding Johnson from a lot of responsibilities. As a counterexample consider Kevin O'Connell's incredible ascension. McVay scooped him up three days after Ron Rivera took over the Redskins and fired him, despite KOC's offense only putting up 255 points that season. A good amount of KOC's success can be attributed to knowing how to surround himself with other great coaches.

It's a modern day meme to think we must hire an OC to be competitive but a quick survey of the playoff field shows that out of 14 HCs there are 6 HCs from defensive backgrounds, and 2 HCs that are more hybrid (Jim Harbaugh, Dan Campbell). This makes a perfect split of offensive and defensive minded HCs in the playoffs.

All this to say that great HCs come in all shapes, sizes, and experiences. I just hope for our sake as fans that the Krafts dig deep this time.

Great observations. Not just because I agree with your preference for Vrabes or Flores. I’m also seeing some interesting connections with this post, about culture change:

Remember when ...

The HC job is team building. It’s about building a team of coaches, every bit as much and perhaps even more than it’s about building a team of players. And it’s about building a team of players that will do everything it takes to contribute to team success, not just on the field and in the weight room. It’s about getting everybody from the HC and FO down to the bottom of the roster and the PS putting team success first, ahead of personal glory.

Example: remember Tiquan Underwood’s haircut? And how it became a laughingstock when his roster situation changed? But it’s exactly what I’m talking about. He bought in, completely, to the team identity. How did that team do? Think about that…

Point is, we need that kind of cohesion from the GM and HC across the entire coaching staff and roster.

Who will deliver that? Which candidate will be best able to put together a staff and locker room, articulate their vision for a winning team, and get everyone in the building to buy in? That’s in the role of HC, running the entire program.

To me it seems that right now there is one candidate that has a better track record as HC than the other known candidates, and that’s Vrabel. There’s a potential candidate who has a track record as HC that to me shows promise that he potentially could be successful, but his track record was in a situation where results were inconclusive, and that’s Brian Flores. There’s a third candidate that has excelled in running his part of a program, but not the entire program, and that’s Ben Johnson.

I’ve listed those three in order of increasing risk and uncertainty as I see it. I’m considering the Patriots FO structure, specifically the GM role, as a major risk factor. That factor particularly affects Ben Johnson because it stresses his weak point, which is never having run a full program. I think it also affects Flores more than Vrabel, because Vrabel has stronger experience.

Overall I think they're all strong candidates, and its still possibke some other strong candidate(s) will emerge. I believe any ofvthem will be infinitely better than what wecsawcthis season.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I predicted this in March: Mayo was a dead man walking in March after the pathetic draft and FA period:

Here is proof, ha:

 

[n1997y]

I predicted this in March: Mayo was a dead man walking in March after the pathetic draft and FA period:

Here is proof, ha:

Right answer, wrong rationale.

He might have survived if the team looked better the longer he coached them, but instead they went from bad to worse. So the inability to make in game adjustments, to have press conferences without subsequently walking back what he said, and generally showing no competence nor even a clue of what the job was about, doomed him. Note that none of those had any connection with the quality of players Wolf delivered for his roster.

So, right church, wrong pew.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Right answer, wrong rationale.

He might have survived if the team looked better the longer he coached them, but instead they went from bad to worse. So the inability to make in game adjustments, to have press conferences without subsequently walking back what he said, and generally showing no competence nor even a clue of what the job was about, doomed him. Note that none of those had any connection with the quality of players Wolf delivered for his roster.

So, right church, wrong pew.

I am not so sure of that. A good roster covers up a lot of sins; a bad roster magnifies the slightest perceived defect. He was given an awful roster. No one could have done much with this roster. He was dead man walking after the FA period, even before the draft.

 

[1960Pats]

The Commanders went from 4 - 13 in 2023, to 12 - 5 in 2024. The new HC would have to insist on bringing his own GM, and spending the cap dollars, and after that, with Maye in his 2nd year, it is a layup to win 6 to 8 games. Very easy turnaround situation. 2 reasonable years of drafting, and good FA signings, and the Pats are a playoff team.

I agree that the NYFL is the kind of league where you can turn things around quickly but I'm not sure that Wash 2023 and NE 2024 are in the same position. We have the QB but almost nothing else. Wash had no QB but was ok elsewhere. The QB put them over the top, unlike the Bears #1 pick QB. Talent evaluation is the key to a quick turnaround and so far Wolf seems to be the wrong guy.

 

[1960Pats]

I could see them taking Carter or Graham at #4 over McMillan or Banks/Campbell if they hire Vrabel

****ing Mayo cost this team a nice haul with his ******** yesterday

What?!? Mayo got this team a big win over one of the top teams in the league. You should be saluting him.

How's last year's #1 pick doing for the Monsters of the Midway?

 

[slash83]

What?!? Mayo got this team a big win over one of the top teams in the league. You should be saluting him.

How's last year's #1 pick doing for the Monsters of the Midway?

You’re missing the point, the first pick wasn’t about the player, it was about accumulating more draft capital holding the 1st pick.

 

[Thelonious]

All the hiring authorities who choose to hire people looking just like them, instead of hiring purely on merit.

Don’t kid yourself, that’s still most of them.

You are delusional. It is these days quite the opposite, and you know it. Affirmative discrimination in favor of some groups and against others is publicly acknowledged policy in industry, commerce, and government. Your silly take is based on a past state of affairs long since left behind by the vast majority of Americans. That you you choose to regard minorities as helpless children, crippled by history, unable to bear any responsibility for the improvement of their lot or of competing on merit is an insult I would resent if I were a member of one of the groups you choose to keep as helpless political pets and pawns. Your "help" is doing tremendous damage to the reputations of these groups as your "beneficiaries" persistently fail at the jobs they given for which they are unqualified. The evidence of this is abundant, and the result has been an ugly decline in the relations between the races brought about by your foolishly playing into the prejudices of those who are actually racists, playing as it does directly into the arguments of such people. Thankfully, more and more blacks and Hispanics and others are coming to realize this. Get with the times.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

He saw it a month or so ago. Colts game, I think. Definitely by the end of the Chargers game.

Not so sure. If he had, he would’ve fired him after the Chargers.

 

[1960Pats]

This is nonsense. A team this lousy cannot afford such a breezy, ill-informed attitude when it comes our punk loser HC's having f'd us out of picks.

Better picks does not guarantee better players. The NYFL is chock full of players at every position who were drafted after lesser players at the same position. How's last year's #1 pick doing? And some future players and even possibly HOFers were not drafted at all. Even with great talent evaluation (something missing here) the draft is still very unpredictable because players develop at all different levels and some not at all.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes it was the perfect storm when they both got lucky.

No I think Bill knew it. He certainly knew enough to keep playing him.

Robert is the one who didn’t realize how lucky he was. And eventually screwed it up.

Brady didn't get lucky from college to the pros. But once he got the chance, which we can call luck, there was no turning back.

Bill didn't know how good Brady would be, nobody did. Otherwise he would have drafted him earlier. But just as Brady got lucky with the Mo Lewis hit, so did Bill. Once Brady took over and won it was the obvious choice. In a way you can say that Bill got lucky twice.

And then you have Kraft, the luckiest person on the face of the earth. Think about how things fell into place for him and the Pats. He ended up with the perfect storm of a HOF HC and QB coming together for two decades. And those two men turned Kraft's million dollar purchase into a billion dollar one. All he had to do was not **** it up, and sadly he did. He got rid of both of those men.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How badly the D regressed.

Yes but was referring to contributing to the culture problem

 

[RobertWeathers]

Greg Bedard on Boston Sports Tonight said that Mike Giardi has a story coming out tomorrow with quotes from players (likely anonymous IMO) stating that they felt they were at a competitive disadvantage and were flying by the seats of their pants.

Lol we all saw that

 

[rogerthat]

Gasper came off a little prickish in RKK's press conference. He's been campaigning on Mayo's behalf all year at the expense of objectivity. Besides that, he's just dead wrong.

Mayo absolutely was a debacle, just embarrassing. Your list does recall moments but I thought Pete Carroll by and large got a bum rap here. He went on to vindicate himself elsewhere, of course.

I somewhat agree with you on Carroll. He was a good coach. And top of that, in his last year here the team was completely decimated by injuries. That being said, I don't think he was a good fit for this market. He was a good coach.... for another team- preferably a west coach team. He could not handle the media here. And his body language was atrocious. And if there is one thing that people around here do not like, it's bad body language. See Mac Jones, Mayo, David Price, etc....

 

[1960Pats]

You’re missing the point, the first pick wasn’t about the player, it was about accumulating more draft capital holding the 1st pick.

That was a lame attempt at being sarcastic. My bad.

 

[Family]

Greg Bedard on Boston Sports Tonight said that Mike Giardi has a story coming out tomorrow with quotes from players (likely anonymous IMO) stating that they felt they were at a competitive disadvantage and were flying by the seats of their pants.

The story is out.

Only 2-3 quotes, pretty much everything we already know.

Wise quote was the most telling, "he was a great leader, great coach, GREAT FRIEND."

If this were the boys and girls club rec league, Mayo would have been a hall of fame coach.

 

[Thelonious]

Better picks does not guarantee better players. The NYFL is chock full of players at every position who were drafted after lesser players at the same position. How's last year's #1 pick doing? And some future players and even possibly HOFers were not drafted at all. Even with great talent evaluation (something missing here) the draft is still very unpredictable because players develop at all different levels and some not at all.

Higher picks increase the likelihood a draftee will pan out, obviously. Using phony anecdotal arguments does not justify ignoring this fact. That there is no ironclad correlation is irrelevant. Whine about the lack of guarantees in the draft if you must, but, as with most things in life, all we can do is to enhance our chances of success. That certainly is not on offer does not legitimate failing to do so.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

This was reported back during training camp ...

What an odd year. I know they probably did try hard but it’s funny actually. It’s almost like the players saw this as a vacation year and liked Mayo because they felt he didn’t work them as hard as another coach would.