The Case Against Eliot Wolf

[KCSVEN]

Mods: this relates to the Patriots draft failures (thus this thread) but also could go to draft forum or even its own thread, so if needs to be moved please do.

Went down a new rabbit hole today in my quest to analytically understand the best way to build a team and the importance of the draft and thus how you handle draft capital. I've been leaning toward the draft is all about hitting in the first 2 rounds as much as possible and using the rest of the draft capital to trade up or trade for players. But I wanted to analyze how the current good teams got to where they are to help understand if that is the case.
I took the current depth chart from ESPN. I took the current starters and any starters that went on IR and then broke down where those players came from. I did not include kickers and had to make a small judgment call here and there for starters that only played a game or 2 but for the most part was straightforward.

This was for current players on a team. For example, Joe Thuney counts as a free agent for KC, but does not count as a hit on a first round pick for Pats because he did not stay after first contract and core players are what matters and how you acquired them for this particular exercise. There were very few of those examples.

I might expand this to all teams in the NFL but just took a sampling to see if it was worth the analyses. This is analyzing all draft picks from 2016-2024, 9 years of data.

Highlights of the result:
-Vikings are pretty much the worst at drafting and filled almost all the starter roles through Free Agents. Any questions on coach of the year?
-Chiefs have been below average in rounds 1-3 but above average in 4-7 but well above average in signing starting free agents. The successful teams that miss on the top picks do a good job of filling in thru free agency.
-3 teams had ZERO picks starting from the 5th round, 2 teams zero form the 6th round and 3 teams with zero in the 7th round.
-1 team had 0 from the 3rd round and 1 team 0 in the 4th but no teams had 0 in first and second round.
-Basically, if you drafted 1 pick every year in the 4th thru 7th rounds for the last 9 years and you have 3 players starting from those 36 picks you are an average drafter. Basically, an average team gets 1 guy every 10 years in each round 4-6 and 1 guy every 20 from the 7th.
-Patriots are well below average in round 1 success, below average in round 2 and average in round 3. Rounds 4-6 they have been above average and round 7 below.
-Patriots have a huge Misc starting group, Misc is practice squad/waivers/released player, only the injury ravaged Lions even have any of them starting out of the other 7 teams.
-The issue is most good players are in rounds 1 and 2 and success rate is much higher. You MUST hit on round 1.
-I get the Tom Brady 6th round pick and other outliers, which goes to poor scouting in many cases. However, in general the 4- 7 round is almost a complete waste BASED on probability and odds of success.
-Viking prove you don't need to be good at drafting. They hit on an average number of first round picks and missed and were below average in every round, except the 6th, slightly above. Good free agent signings and good coaching. And they followed the you must hit in the 1st round theory.
-Trading backwards is an analytical and percentage loser, outside of Future #1 picks (depending on where they land). Vikings had the most picks and the worst % success.
-I started to look at Pro Bowls and Pro Bowl alternates but was too much work but the Chiefs had 11 Pro Bowl or Alternates and 10 of the 11 are drafted rounds 1-3. So even though you can have success in the 4-7 rounds the odds of getting IMPACT starters, and not just JAG starters, are very low.
-49ers have fallen off due to poor drafting (related to the Trey Lance trade) high in the draft and needing to play lower drafted guys as starters due to those misses or injury.
-Chargers, Lions and Eagles nail their top 3 picks more than average. This equals success.

 

[jmt57]

In case anyone missed it, Ian just published a column about an Albert Breer interview on 98.5.
I'm not a fan of Breer's, but in this case it looks like Bert hit the nail on the head.

BREER: Patriots Have 'Systemic Issues' That Go Beyond Mayo | PatsFans.com

With the talk obviously swirling about the situation with New England Patriots head coach Jerod Mayo, Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer believes that the issues facing the team extend beyond its head coach.

www.patsfans.com

“So I went from do it if Vrabel is available to now I’m like, all options are on the table because that was so bad,” said Breer during an appearance on Zolak and Bertrand on 98.5 the Sports Hub this week. “And that performance and to come out of it … to look that way. And I’m almost like… The weird thing is I’m almost now torn on the Vrabel thing because I think this organization has systemic issues that go beyond the head coach that need to be fixed. That if you just go and have another sham of a coaching search, another sham of a GM search, and you just bring in a guy that you know, there may be issues here that do not get fixed because you did that, because you did not put yourself through a full process again.”​

In terms of the organizational chart, it's much more than just Bill Belichick no longer being there. It's also Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnecchia, Josh McDaniels, Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, etc. The dropoff in all of those roles is immense - and in the case of Ernie Adams, there is no replacement as far as I know.

“Here’s the thing is, they still are set up the way they were when Bill was the coach. They need more people. They need more departments. They need to modernize the entire operation. This is a place that was based around the way one person wanted to run it. That one person is not here anymore.”

“They need to spend and spend and spend to build out their operation, to get it up with what the Eagles are doing, with what the Ravens are doing, with what the most forward-thinking organization, the Rams, the Niners, what the best organizations in football are doing. And what I’ve heard so many times from these … The people who went into the Lions, right? So there’s a good example, right? The guys who came into the lines, Brad Holmes was coming from the Rams, and they felt like they had to build out so many things because they were way too small, and we need to have this and this and this and this. If we don’t have it, we’re going to be behind everybody else. Sports science, analytics, all these different things. This is not a one-person problem.”​

Some more comments on the same topic:

One other thing Breer talked about is the fact that the Patriots, despite bringing in a multitude of coaches this offseason as well as additional scouts, are still apparently nowhere near on par with other teams in terms of their football operations.

Breer said that the impression people get each time they walk into the building is that they’re stunned at how small things are compared to other clubs.

“The people who have come here from other organizations, I can tell you this 100%, their first reaction when they walk in that Building is where are all the people?” said Breer. “People here are seeing the way a lot of other teams live now. It’s like, after a year of this, you’re done with it. Okay, that’s fine. But what’s the answer?”​

 

[Toofy]

In case anyone missed it, Ian just published a column about an Albert Breer interview on 98.5.
I'm not a fan of Breer's, but in this case it looks like Bert hit the nail on the head.

BREER: Patriots Have 'Systemic Issues' That Go Beyond Mayo | PatsFans.com

With the talk obviously swirling about the situation with New England Patriots head coach Jerod Mayo, Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer believes that the issues facing the team extend beyond its head coach.

www.patsfans.com

“So I went from do it if Vrabel is available to now I’m like, all options are on the table because that was so bad,” said Breer during an appearance on Zolak and Bertrand on 98.5 the Sports Hub this week. “And that performance and to come out of it … to look that way. And I’m almost like… The weird thing is I’m almost now torn on the Vrabel thing because I think this organization has systemic issues that go beyond the head coach that need to be fixed. That if you just go and have another sham of a coaching search, another sham of a GM search, and you just bring in a guy that you know, there may be issues here that do not get fixed because you did that, because you did not put yourself through a full process again.”​

In terms of the organizational chart, it's much more than just Bill Belichick no longer being there. It's also Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnecchia, Josh McDaniels, Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, etc. The dropoff in all of those roles is immense - and in the case of Ernie Adams, there is no replacement as far as I know.

“Here’s the thing is, they still are set up the way they were when Bill was the coach. They need more people. They need more departments. They need to modernize the entire operation. This is a place that was based around the way one person wanted to run it. That one person is not here anymore.”​

​

“They need to spend and spend and spend to build out their operation, to get it up with what the Eagles are doing, with what the Ravens are doing, with what the most forward-thinking organization, the Rams, the Niners, what the best organizations in football are doing. And what I’ve heard so many times from these … The people who went into the Lions, right? So there’s a good example, right? The guys who came into the lines, Brad Holmes was coming from the Rams, and they felt like they had to build out so many things because they were way too small, and we need to have this and this and this and this. If we don’t have it, we’re going to be behind everybody else. Sports science, analytics, all these different things. This is not a one-person problem.”​

Some more comments on the same topic:

One other thing Breer talked about is the fact that the Patriots, despite bringing in a multitude of coaches this offseason as well as additional scouts, are still apparently nowhere near on par with other teams in terms of their football operations.​

​

Breer said that the impression people get each time they walk into the building is that they’re stunned at how small things are compared to other clubs.​

​

“The people who have come here from other organizations, I can tell you this 100%, their first reaction when they walk in that Building is where are all the people?” said Breer. “People here are seeing the way a lot of other teams live now. It’s like, after a year of this, you’re done with it. Okay, that’s fine. But what’s the answer?”​

One key pointer.. ravens had their own pointing system for players. No pff or no ********. It's their own pointing system with guard rails . Not used for decision making but to mitigate mistakes.

I was under assumption we also had something similar and now realize that it's an analog process with few scouts saying something about a player and them going on voting process to select the guy.

Cheap Kraft please spend your money . By not spending you are losing millions in brand equity and potential value down the line should you want to sell.

 

[silentone]

Mods: this relates to the Patriots draft failures (thus this thread) but also could go to draft forum or even its own thread, so if needs to be moved please do.

Went down a new rabbit hole today in my quest to analytically understand the best way to build a team and the importance of the draft and thus how you handle draft capital. I've been leaning toward the draft is all about hitting in the first 2 rounds as much as possible and using the rest of the draft capital to trade up or trade for players. But I wanted to analyze how the current good teams got to where they are to help understand if that is the case.
I took the current depth chart from ESPN. I took the current starters and any starters that went on IR and then broke down where those players came from. I did not include kickers and had to make a small judgment call here and there for starters that only played a game or 2 but for the most part was straightforward.

This was for current players on a team. For example, Joe Thuney counts as a free agent for KC, but does not count as a hit on a first round pick for Pats because he did not stay after first contract and core players are what matters and how you acquired them for this particular exercise. There were very few of those examples.

I might expand this to all teams in the NFL but just took a sampling to see if it was worth the analyses. This is analyzing all draft picks from 2016-2024, 9 years of data.

Highlights of the result:
-Vikings are pretty much the worst at drafting and filled almost all the starter roles through Free Agents. Any questions on coach of the year?
-Chiefs have been below average in rounds 1-3 but above average in 4-7 but well above average in signing starting free agents. The successful teams that miss on the top picks do a good job of filling in thru free agency.
-3 teams had ZERO picks starting from the 5th round, 2 teams zero form the 6th round and 3 teams with zero in the 7th round.
-1 team had 0 from the 3rd round and 1 team 0 in the 4th but no teams had 0 in first and second round.
-Basically, if you drafted 1 pick every year in the 4th thru 7th rounds for the last 9 years and you have 1 player starting from those 36 picks you are an average drafter.
-Patriots are well below average in round 1 success, below average in round 2 and average in round 3. Rounds 4-6 they have been above average and round 7 below.
-Patriots have a huge Misc starting group, Misc is practice squad/waivers/released player, only the injury ravaged Lions even have any of them starting out of the other 7 teams.
-The issue is most good players are in rounds 1 and 2 and success rate is much higher. You MUST hit on round 1.
-I get the Tom Brady 6th round pick and other outliers, which goes to poor scouting in many cases. However, in general the 4- 7 round is almost a complete waste BASED on probability and odds of success.
-Viking prove you don't need to be good at drafting. They hit on an average number of first round picks and missed and were below average in every round, except the 6th, slightly above. Good free agent signings and good coaching. And they followed the you must hit in the 1st round theory.
-Trading backwards is an analytical and percentage loser, outside of Future #1 picks (depending on where they land). Vikings had the most picks and the worst % success.
-I started to look at Pro Bowls and Pro Bowl alternates but was too much work but the Chiefs had 11 Pro Bowl or Alternates and 10 of the 11 are drafted rounds 1-3. So even though you can have success in the 4-7 rounds the odds of getting IMPACT starters, and not just JAG starters, are very low.
-49ers have fallen off due to poor drafting (related to the Trey Lance trade) high in the draft and needing to play lower drafted guys as starters due to those misses or injury.
-Chargers, Lions and Eagles nail their top 3 picks more than average. This equals success.

Mods: this relates to the Patriots draft failures (thus this thread) but also could go to draft forum or even its own thread, so if needs to be moved please do.

Went down a new rabbit hole today in my quest to analytically understand the best way to build a team and the importance of the draft and thus how you handle draft capital. I've been leaning toward the draft is all about hitting in the first 2 rounds as much as possible and using the rest of the draft capital to trade up or trade for players. But I wanted to analyze how the current good teams got to where they are to help understand if that is the case.
I took the current depth chart from ESPN. I took the current starters and any starters that went on IR and then broke down where those players came from. I did not include kickers and had to make a small judgment call here and there for starters that only played a game or 2 but for the most part was straightforward.

This was for current players on a team. For example, Joe Thuney counts as a free agent for KC, but does not count as a hit on a first round pick for Pats because he did not stay after first contract and core players are what matters and how you acquired them for this particular exercise. There were very few of those examples.

I might expand this to all teams in the NFL but just took a sampling to see if it was worth the analyses. This is analyzing all draft picks from 2016-2024, 9 years of data.

Highlights of the result:
-Vikings are pretty much the worst at drafting and filled almost all the starter roles through Free Agents. Any questions on coach of the year?
-Chiefs have been below average in rounds 1-3 but above average in 4-7 but well above average in signing starting free agents. The successful teams that miss on the top picks do a good job of filling in thru free agency.
-3 teams had ZERO picks starting from the 5th round, 2 teams zero form the 6th round and 3 teams with zero in the 7th round.
-1 team had 0 from the 3rd round and 1 team 0 in the 4th but no teams had 0 in first and second round.
-Basically, if you drafted 1 pick every year in the 4th thru 7th rounds for the last 9 years and you have 1 player starting from those 36 picks you are an average drafter.
-Patriots are well below average in round 1 success, below average in round 2 and average in round 3. Rounds 4-6 they have been above average and round 7 below.
-Patriots have a huge Misc starting group, Misc is practice squad/waivers/released player, only the injury ravaged Lions even have any of them starting out of the other 7 teams.
-The issue is most good players are in rounds 1 and 2 and success rate is much higher. You MUST hit on round 1.
-I get the Tom Brady 6th round pick and other outliers, which goes to poor scouting in many cases. However, in general the 4- 7 round is almost a complete waste BASED on probability and odds of success.
-Viking prove you don't need to be good at drafting. They hit on an average number of first round picks and missed and were below average in every round, except the 6th, slightly above. Good free agent signings and good coaching. And they followed the you must hit in the 1st round theory.
-Trading backwards is an analytical and percentage loser, outside of Future #1 picks (depending on where they land). Vikings had the most picks and the worst % success.
-I started to look at Pro Bowls and Pro Bowl alternates but was too much work but the Chiefs had 11 Pro Bowl or Alternates and 10 of the 11 are drafted rounds 1-3. So even though you can have success in the 4-7 rounds the odds of getting IMPACT starters, and not just JAG starters, are very low.
-49ers have fallen off due to poor drafting (related to the Trey Lance trade) high in the draft and needing to play lower drafted guys as starters due to those misses or injury.
-Chargers, Lions and Eagles nail their top 3 picks more than average. This equals success.

Good topic KCSVEN - I hope it gets it's own topic, it would be fun to see what others come up with. I agree with you that it's important to hit on your first round picks. Missing on a first round pick, especially at the top of the first round, where the salaries are so high, is really bad.

I think in building a team, each action should be considered on the basis of maximizing the value/output of the team per salary cap dollar; WAR/VORP per salary cap dollar to steal from a couple popular metrics. By definition, teams that maximize output per dollar spent have the best record (or better ye point diffential).

Joe Thuney with the Patriots is one of the gold standards for this - he was a top player but cost only 1/2 of 1% of the salary cap ($800,000 per year out of $155mm salary cap as the 78th pick of 2016 draft). The Patriots should be given tremendous credit for this pick as the value add is enormous, yet your model views Thuney unfavorably because he didn't resign with the Patriots. Maybe there is a way to incorporate that.

 

[KCSVEN]

Good topic KCSVEN - I hope it gets it's own topic, it would be fun to see what others come up with. I agree with you that it's important to hit on your first round picks. Missing on a first round pick, especially at the top of the first round, where the salaries are so high, is really bad.

I think in building a team, each action should be considered on the basis of maximizing the value/output of the team per salary cap dollar; WAR/VORP per salary cap dollar to steal from a couple popular metrics. By definition, teams that maximize output per dollar spent have the best record (or better ye point diffential).

Joe Thuney with the Patriots is one of the gold standards for this - he was a top player but cost only 1/2 of 1% of the salary cap ($800,000 per year out of $155mm salary cap as the 78th pick of 2016 draft). The Patriots should be given tremendous credit for this pick as the value add is enormous, yet your model views Thuney unfavorably because he didn't resign with the Patriots. Maybe there is a way to incorporate that.

The Thuney decision was a huge miss by BB, should have paid up for him.
There are other metrics that address that, this combines GM draft, trade and Free Agents to arrive at the current roster. Even if they get credit for Thuney they are still below average. This is more to look at how teams are built and what you should value your picks at.

Average Team of starters on these 9 teams comes from:

5-First Round Picks
5-Free Agents
5-2nd and 3rd round pick
3-From the 4-7th rounds
2-UDFA/Waiver
2-Trade

Free Agents and first round picks are almost half your key players. You need to hit on the first rounder and keep those guys.

5 out of 9 first round picks stick
3 out of 9 second round picks
2 out of 9 third round picks

The only round that is close to being a regular success story is round 1.

With this known I'm not sure I would take this year's 1 and 2 and next years 1 and 2 for the first pick.

I might take: 2025,2026,2027 firsts and not want the other picks OR I'd be willing to trade them back 3rd or 2nd round picks to get the other first.

 

[Brewskies]

I think there is a solid data-based case to dismiss Eliot Wolf.
I know it's early in his GM tenure, and there may be some longer-term strategy behind the really questionable handling of offseason spending on OL and WR.

But here are the facts.
He's not entirely in his first year with the Patriots.
Eliot Wolf was a consultant in scouting in 2020-2021, then Director of Scouting in 2022-2023, and then GM in 2024.
So, while Bill was the official GM, Eliot was charged with providing player recommendations and influencing his final decisions on free agency and the draft.
Let's look at the results.

Red is underperformed based on the acquisition cost, green is overperformed.
No "underperforms" for fourth round draft on, but you'd like to see one hit a year at least from that group.

2022 Draft
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton
Marcus Jones
Jack Jones
Pierre Strong
Bailey Zappe
Kevin Harris
Sam Roberts
Chasen Hinds
Andrew Stueber

2022 Free Agency
DaVante Parker
Mack Wilson
Raekwon McMillan
DaMarcus Mitchell
Jabrill Peppers

2022 Key Departures
Jarrett Stidham
Shaq Mason
Ted Karras

2023 Draft
Christian Gonzalez
Keion White
Marte Mapu
Jake Andrews
Chad Ryland
Sidy Sow
Atonio Mafi
Kayshon Boutte
Bryce Barringer
Demario Douglas
Ameer Speed
Isaiah Bolden

2023 Free Agency
Ezekiel Elliot
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Tyrone Wheatley Jr
Riley Reiff
Calvin Anderson

2023 Key Departures
Pierre Strong
Jakobi Meyers
Johnnu Smith
Nick Folk

2024 Draft
Drake Maye
Ja'Lynn Polk
Caedan Wallace
Layden Robinson
Javon Baker
Marcellas Dial
Joe Milton
Jaheim Bell

2024 Free Agency
Jacoby Brissett
Antonio Gibson
JaMycal Hasty
Austin Hooper
Chukwama Okorafor
Nick Leverett
Michael Jordan
Christian Elliss
Marco Wilson
Dell Pettus
JaLinn Hawkins
Joey Slye

2024 Key Departures
DaVante Parker
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Trent Brown
Lawrence Guy
Matthew Judon
Chad Ryland

Seven hits - including Drake Maye, which was a complete layup.
Sixteen misses. More if you include mistakes of omission.
You can debate - well, I really think it's eight hits. Or you can't count over-drafting a kicker in the fourth as a miss. Not replacing Lawrence Guy was really a miss. No penalties assessed for the contract decisions on Dugg
Plenty of debate possible.
However, it's a LOT more misses than hits.

While the offense has been terrible, most of us question whether it's the roster more than the coaches. Complete lack of talent across the OL and WR roster.
And that's on Wolf.
The decisions in 2024 were terrible, and the personnel decisions in which he had influence under Bill were terrible.
This draft - too early to evaluate - but signs that all they got was the #3 overall pick.

I would immediately replace Eliot Wolf.

I would immediately replace the owner he brought in Eliot Wolf to be a check on BB. Patriots need a new owner.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Wol g

I DISAGREE
It is not a firing offense to draft Polk (and Baker) who the staff had experience with and who was judged the next day to have been an OK WR picked a half round or 3/4 of a round early.

It is not a firing Offense to sign Okorafor as our LT. It was of course a major error. This mistake was probably the difference between where we will pick and picking in the teens.
====================
1) Wolf has made decisions for exactly ONE year. What you have stated in the case against Belichick.

2) You should be congratulating Wolf on the 2024 KEY departures instead of considering them reasons for him to be fired.

3) I agree that folks disagree with Wolf's off-season strategy of signing and extending the vets and saving the cap money until such time as
we had a QB. They would have sign top free agents and HOPED that we were able to draft the QB of the future, and that the QB could be competitive in 2024. I get it. I just strongly disagree. You probably should find some way to punish the Kraft's. There is about 0.00% chance that they didn't agree to this approach.

Personally, I would made except and sign a top EDGE rusher since the team didn't want Judon as part of the future. Of course, that would have made Judon less valuable in trade.
========
FOR ME, WOLF MADE TWO REALLY BAD MISTAKES
A) The signing of Okorafor as the only free agent LT was gross negligence.
B) Not going BPA with our second draft pick was also a major mistake. The was an opportunity to draft very good DT or a CB. If everone was insistent on drafting Offense, then he should have trade down 10 or 20 places and gotten an extra pick.
======


The choice of Polk and then Baker instead of McConkey is understandable. There really was support for Polk as a 2nd round value at WR (although any here disagreed)/

1-Agree on the rookie WR’s, but I would have taken Jackson Powers-Johnson with their second round pick, and said so as it took place. And t his forum LOVED the Baker pick in the 4th round. And I actually have more concern for Baker than I do Polk, because it appears that he doesn’t understand the playbook, and you will never succeed if you can’t run the plays, regardless of the type of offense that’s being run.

2-We agree on the way Wolf managed last offseason. He let the right guys go and did a good job signing the guys he wanted to keep.

3-I don’t remember many good edge rushers being available in free agency, but I could have missed something there. The Okafor and Osborne signings were busts, and that’s on Wolf, but they didn’t cost much in the overall scheme of things.

 

[captain stone]

In case anyone missed it, Ian just published a column about an Albert Breer interview on 98.5.
I'm not a fan of Breer's, but in this case it looks like Bert hit the nail on the head.

BREER: Patriots Have 'Systemic Issues' That Go Beyond Mayo | PatsFans.com

With the talk obviously swirling about the situation with New England Patriots head coach Jerod Mayo, Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer believes that the issues facing the team extend beyond its head coach.

www.patsfans.com

“So I went from do it if Vrabel is available to now I’m like, all options are on the table because that was so bad,” said Breer during an appearance on Zolak and Bertrand on 98.5 the Sports Hub this week. “And that performance and to come out of it … to look that way. And I’m almost like… The weird thing is I’m almost now torn on the Vrabel thing because I think this organization has systemic issues that go beyond the head coach that need to be fixed. That if you just go and have another sham of a coaching search, another sham of a GM search, and you just bring in a guy that you know, there may be issues here that do not get fixed because you did that, because you did not put yourself through a full process again.”​

In terms of the organizational chart, it's much more than just Bill Belichick no longer being there. It's also Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnecchia, Josh McDaniels, Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, etc. The dropoff in all of those roles is immense - and in the case of Ernie Adams, there is no replacement as far as I know.

“Here’s the thing is, they still are set up the way they were when Bill was the coach. They need more people. They need more departments. They need to modernize the entire operation. This is a place that was based around the way one person wanted to run it. That one person is not here anymore.”​

​

“They need to spend and spend and spend to build out their operation, to get it up with what the Eagles are doing, with what the Ravens are doing, with what the most forward-thinking organization, the Rams, the Niners, what the best organizations in football are doing. And what I’ve heard so many times from these … The people who went into the Lions, right? So there’s a good example, right? The guys who came into the lines, Brad Holmes was coming from the Rams, and they felt like they had to build out so many things because they were way too small, and we need to have this and this and this and this. If we don’t have it, we’re going to be behind everybody else. Sports science, analytics, all these different things. This is not a one-person problem.”​

Some more comments on the same topic:

One other thing Breer talked about is the fact that the Patriots, despite bringing in a multitude of coaches this offseason as well as additional scouts, are still apparently nowhere near on par with other teams in terms of their football operations.​

​

Breer said that the impression people get each time they walk into the building is that they’re stunned at how small things are compared to other clubs.​

​

“The people who have come here from other organizations, I can tell you this 100%, their first reaction when they walk in that Building is where are all the people?” said Breer. “People here are seeing the way a lot of other teams live now. It’s like, after a year of this, you’re done with it. Okay, that’s fine. But what’s the answer?”​

Wow.

Between Kraft's cheapness and Bill's incompetency & megalomania...

In the words of Towne Faire Tyre, nobody - NO BODY - should be surprised that we have found ourselves where we are, on the 5th anniversary of Brady's last game as the QB of the NEP (certainly not his finest hour either).

And to also quote our own professor emeritus Thelonius: We have the Worst HC, the Worst coaching staph, the Worst front orifice, and The Worst Owners, in the Entire ****ing League.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[turkeyneck]

What's going on at Gillette? The owner's delusional about his coach, the GM is delusional about his draft, the HC is delusional about the team's performance, the players are delusional about their role vis a vis the fans. Some reality needs to hit Gillette like the dinosaurs' asteroid.

 

[Love The Drake]

What's going on at Gillette? The owner's delusional about his coach, the GM is delusional about his draft, the HC is delusional about the team's performance, the players are delusional about their role vis a vis the fans. Some reality needs to hit Gillette like the dinosaurs' asteroid.

Mass firing in order.
Burn it all and then light incense and sage.

 

[Fubby]

I’ve read this like 10 times and I can’t for the life of me figure out what the literal **** he is trying to say or suggest.

His offseason between the draft, FA signings, resignings, coach hires, has been down right atrocious, and that’s saying something when you look at BB’s last 4 years. He doesn’t seem to acknowledge it at all!

 

[KCSVEN]

I’ve read this like 10 times and I can’t for the life of me figure out what the literal **** he is trying to say or suggest.

His offseason between the draft, FA signings, resignings, coach hires, has been down right atrocious, and that’s saying something when you look at BB’s last 4 years. He doesn’t seem to acknowledge it at all!

Yeah, I love how Maye and his family refused to be interviewed for the article because he did not want spotlight on him instead of the team, yet Wolf decided it was good to talk. You have 3 wins, been a disaster, probably not a good time to be talking. Everything about that article makes you so glad to have Drake Maye, the HOPE!

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Is this thread about Bill Belichick’s bad decisions? Because the vast majority of evidence being produced demonstrates just that.

Agreed, that dumbass hired Wolf, Groh and Mayo. All evidence of BB must go.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Polk over McConkey is the #1 indictment on Wolfe. I think that alone is a fireable offense.

WR > OL was an even more egregious dereliction of duty.

 

[Ring 6]

The Thuney decision was a huge miss by BB, should have paid up for him.
There are other metrics that address that, this combines GM draft, trade and Free Agents to arrive at the current roster. Even if they get credit for Thuney they are still below average. This is more to look at how teams are built and what you should value your picks at.

Average Team of starters on these 9 teams comes from:

5-First Round Picks
5-Free Agents
5-2nd and 3rd round pick
3-From the 4-7th rounds
2-UDFA/Waiver
2-Trade

Free Agents and first round picks are almost half your key players. You need to hit on the first rounder and keep those guys.

5 out of 9 first round picks stick
3 out of 9 second round picks
2 out of 9 third round picks

The only round that is close to being a regular success story is round 1.

With this known I'm not sure I would take this year's 1 and 2 and next years 1 and 2 for the first pick.

I might take: 2025,2026,2027 firsts and not want the other picks OR I'd be willing to trade them back 3rd or 2nd round picks to get the other first.

Thuney chose to leave. You can’t force him to stay. I have very little doubt Belichick tried hard to keep him.

 

[KCSVEN]

Thuney chose to leave. You can’t force him to stay. I have very little doubt Belichick tried hard to keep him.

BB would not pay him what he wanted and in hindsight he wanted was more than reasonable. Also just could have Kept him another year by using franchise tag again for the same amount of money he got from Kansas City.
They also should have signed him year before. This all led to the Cole Strange pick.

 

[Ring 6]

BB would not pay him what he wanted and in hindsight he wanted was more than reasonable. Also just could have Kept him another year by using franchise tag again for the same amount of money he got from Kansas City.
They also should have signed him year before. This all led to the Cole Strange pick.

That is speculation. You don’t just sign a player because you want to the player has to want to sign.

 

[KCSVEN]

That is speculation. You don’t just sign a player because you want to the player has to want to sign.

It’s not speculation it was reported, and it’s 100% fact they could have franchised him again

 

[Ring 6]

It’s not speculation it was reported, and it’s 100% fact they could have franchised him again

I am not aware of a report that Belichick said he wouldn’t pay Thuney

Here is one that says they were negotiating right up until the end.

Patriots Have Expressed That They'd Like To Keep Thuney

Joe Thuney and the Patriots are still talking as the latest rumors and news continue to swirl.

www.patsfans.com

Yes you could franchise a second year, but it’s stupid.