The Case Against Eliot Wolf

[h0c2000]

OT: I should think Arthur Blank now has $90m reasons to regret going with his idiot GM last year. Talk about a huge mistake.

Sources: Falcons expected to cut Kirk Cousins before $10M bonus due

Kirk Cousins' divorce from the Falcons is expected to be finalized before his $10 million roster bonus is due March 17.

www.espn.com

Are you saying anyone who wanted to sign Kirk Cousins after last season was an idiot?

 

[Salsalife]

I think there is a solid data-based case to dismiss Eliot Wolf.
I know it's early in his GM tenure, and there may be some longer-term strategy behind the really questionable handling of offseason spending on OL and WR.

But here are the facts.
He's not entirely in his first year with the Patriots.
Eliot Wolf was a consultant in scouting in 2020-2021, then Director of Scouting in 2022-2023, and then GM in 2024.
So, while Bill was the official GM, Eliot was charged with providing player recommendations and influencing his final decisions on free agency and the draft.
Let's look at the results.

Red is underperformed based on the acquisition cost, green is overperformed.
No "underperforms" for fourth round draft on, but you'd like to see one hit a year at least from that group.

2022 Draft
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton
Marcus Jones
Jack Jones
Pierre Strong
Bailey Zappe
Kevin Harris
Sam Roberts
Chasen Hinds
Andrew Stueber

2022 Free Agency
DaVante Parker
Mack Wilson
Raekwon McMillan
DaMarcus Mitchell
Jabrill Peppers

2022 Key Departures
Jarrett Stidham
Shaq Mason
Ted Karras

2023 Draft
Christian Gonzalez
Keion White
Marte Mapu
Jake Andrews
Chad Ryland
Sidy Sow
Atonio Mafi
Kayshon Boutte
Bryce Barringer
Demario Douglas
Ameer Speed
Isaiah Bolden

2023 Free Agency
Ezekiel Elliot
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Tyrone Wheatley Jr
Riley Reiff
Calvin Anderson

2023 Key Departures
Pierre Strong
Jakobi Meyers
Johnnu Smith
Nick Folk

2024 Draft
Drake Maye
Ja'Lynn Polk
Caedan Wallace
Layden Robinson
Javon Baker
Marcellas Dial
Joe Milton
Jaheim Bell

2024 Free Agency
Jacoby Brissett
Antonio Gibson
JaMycal Hasty
Austin Hooper
Chukwama Okorafor
Nick Leverett
Michael Jordan
Christian Elliss
Marco Wilson
Dell Pettus
JaLinn Hawkins
Joey Slye

2024 Key Departures
DaVante Parker
JuJu Smith Schuster
Mike Gesicki
Trent Brown
Lawrence Guy
Matthew Judon
Chad Ryland

Seven hits - including Drake Maye, which was a complete layup.
Sixteen misses. More if you include mistakes of omission.
You can debate - well, I really think it's eight hits. Or you can't count over-drafting a kicker in the fourth as a miss. Not replacing Lawrence Guy was really a miss. No penalties assessed for the contract decisions on Dugg
Plenty of debate possible.
However, it's a LOT more misses than hits.

While the offense has been terrible, most of us question whether it's the roster more than the coaches. Complete lack of talent across the OL and WR roster.
And that's on Wolf.
The decisions in 2024 were terrible, and the personnel decisions in which he had influence under Bill were terrible.
This draft - too early to evaluate - but signs that all they got was the #3 overall pick.

I would immediately replace Eliot Wolf.

Can I ask you some questions? Great data b.t.w. Here is the question, Teachers or talent, what comes first? I feel Thunder is all in on Mayo, so as for Teaching goes he feels his pick of a rookie head coach was the right choice. So no change there so that means too me do you replace the teachers (coaches) or the (Talent) Elliot Wolfe. I think the argument every year that there not a lot of talent in the draft is B.S. The Patriots Superbowl runs are filled with more low round draft pick starters which brings me to the conundrum.

Do coaches evaluate players first or do scouts?
Who projects there future value?
Is Wolfe the chief bean counter or a true NFL player personal evaluator?
Is the head coach the #1 player evaluator in the end or his staff?

 

[silentone]

I disagree with all the criticism heaped on the Patriots for not drafting Ladd McConkey. While I fully acknowledge McConkey has had a strong rookie campaign, at the time of the draft I think he was a risky pick with lots of red flags and I think the Pats showed good judgement not drafting him at 34. Below are the reasons why I feel this way.

Small frame: 6 feet, 185 pounds
Tiny hands: 8 5/8

From draft sharks:
“raw college production is underwhelming”
“never led Georgia in catches or receiving yards”
“played thru turf toe & knee injuries in 2022”
“missed four games with back injury and one with ankle injury last year”
“was a part-time player last year….did not finish top two among Georgia Wrs in pas routes in a single one of his nine games”
“ninth-percentile wingspan, sixth-percentile hand size”

From NFL.com
“modest playing strength”
“alarming number of deep ball-tracking drops in 2022”

Bleacher Report:
“Very skinny frame”
“Poor play strength. Struggles to fight through contact”

NFL Draft Buzz:
Height: 36%
Weight: 15%
Hands:17%
Arm: 19%
Span: 11%

“Lacks twitch…struggles with contested catches”
“Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field & return roles”

I fully acknowledge there are lots of things to like – his speed and athleticism – very good athlete, Won college community service award, finalist for academic Heisman. “Really smart. You can tell he watches a ton of tape with how good he is at picking up on how to attack guys he’s facing” – NFL scouting director.

He will always have small hands and small frame. I believe he will always have above average injury risk. In addition to his 2022 & 2023 college injuries, he is currently dealing with a knee injury and shoulder injury. I don’t think he is durable. Additionally, he may end up as a slot receiver. I think it’s natural, as a Patriot fan, to imagine him as another Edelman or Amendola but Edelman was the 27th pick in the 7th round and Amendola was undrafted.

At the time of the draft, I don’t think McConkey offered favorable risk/reward at pick #34 (very high second round) and still feel that way. While it’s certainly subjective, I disagree with those calling the Patriots staff unintelligent (and worse) for not drafting him there.

 

[Salsalife]

I disagree with all the criticism heaped on the Patriots for not drafting Ladd McConkey. While I fully acknowledge McConkey has had a strong rookie campaign, at the time of the draft I think he was a risky pick with lots of red flags and I think the Pats showed good judgement not drafting him at 34. Below are the reasons why I feel this way.

Small frame: 6 feet, 185 pounds
Tiny hands: 8 5/8

From draft sharks:
“raw college production is underwhelming”
“never led Georgia in catches or receiving yards”
“played thru turf toe & knee injuries in 2022”
“missed four games with back injury and one with ankle injury last year”
“was a part-time player last year….did not finish top two among Georgia Wrs in pas routes in a single one of his nine games”
“ninth-percentile wingspan, sixth-percentile hand size”

From NFL.com
“modest playing strength”
“alarming number of deep ball-tracking drops in 2022”

Bleacher Report:
“Very skinny frame”
“Poor play strength. Struggles to fight through contact”

NFL Draft Buzz:
Height: 36%
Weight: 15%
Hands:17%
Arm: 19%
Span: 11%

“Lacks twitch…struggles with contested catches”
“Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field & return roles”

I fully acknowledge there are lots of things to like – his speed and athleticism – very good athlete, Won college community service award, finalist for academic Heisman. “Really smart. You can tell he watches a ton of tape with how good he is at picking up on how to attack guys he’s facing” – NFL scouting director.

He will always have small hands and small frame. I believe he will always have above average injury risk. In addition to his 2022 & 2023 college injuries, he is currently dealing with a knee injury and shoulder injury. I don’t think he is durable. Additionally, he may end up as a slot receiver. I think it’s natural, as a Patriot fan, to imagine him as another Edelman or Amendola but Edelman was the 27th pick in the 7th round and Amendola was undrafted.

At the time of the draft, I don’t think McConkey offered favorable risk/reward at pick #34 (very high second round) and still feel that way. While it’s certainly subjective, I disagree with those calling the Patriots staff unintelligent (and worse) for not drafting him there.

Oh OK. We should have definitely not drafted this guy....
Gronkowski was named an Associated Press third-team All-American and All-Pac-10 first-team tight end. Prior to the 2009 season, Gronkowski was placed on the watchlist for the Lombardi Award. He missed his junior season in 2009 due to back surgery, which caused his draft stock to fall.

 

[KCSVEN]

I disagree with all the criticism heaped on the Patriots for not drafting Ladd McConkey. While I fully acknowledge McConkey has had a strong rookie campaign, at the time of the draft I think he was a risky pick with lots of red flags and I think the Pats showed good judgement not drafting him at 34. Below are the reasons why I feel this way.

Small frame: 6 feet, 185 pounds
Tiny hands: 8 5/8

From draft sharks:
“raw college production is underwhelming”
“never led Georgia in catches or receiving yards”
“played thru turf toe & knee injuries in 2022”
“missed four games with back injury and one with ankle injury last year”
“was a part-time player last year….did not finish top two among Georgia Wrs in pas routes in a single one of his nine games”
“ninth-percentile wingspan, sixth-percentile hand size”

From NFL.com
“modest playing strength”
“alarming number of deep ball-tracking drops in 2022”

Bleacher Report:
“Very skinny frame”
“Poor play strength. Struggles to fight through contact”

NFL Draft Buzz:
Height: 36%
Weight: 15%
Hands:17%
Arm: 19%
Span: 11%

“Lacks twitch…struggles with contested catches”
“Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field & return roles”

I fully acknowledge there are lots of things to like – his speed and athleticism – very good athlete, Won college community service award, finalist for academic Heisman. “Really smart. You can tell he watches a ton of tape with how good he is at picking up on how to attack guys he’s facing” – NFL scouting director.

He will always have small hands and small frame. I believe he will always have above average injury risk. In addition to his 2022 & 2023 college injuries, he is currently dealing with a knee injury and shoulder injury. I don’t think he is durable. Additionally, he may end up as a slot receiver. I think it’s natural, as a Patriot fan, to imagine him as another Edelman or Amendola but Edelman was the 27th pick in the 7th round and Amendola was undrafted.

At the time of the draft, I don’t think McConkey offered favorable risk/reward at pick #34 (very high second round) and still feel that way. While it’s certainly subjective, I disagree with those calling the Patriots staff unintelligent (and worse) for not drafting him there.

You make some good points however:
Never mention separation. With a WR you start with ability to separate and then go from there. He was good at that, has very high acceleration, quick hips, smooth feet, some of the main qualities you want. Yeah, small frame is really the main concern, when teams start pressing him and hitting him as he leaves the line will he wear down?

My main issue with him is injury risk and durability. Without seeing his medicals hard to tell if worth passing.

Even IF you think medicals were worth skipping and IF the Pats were afraid of his medicals, then they were correct to pass on him.

Still does not excuse the Polk pick, Polk had poor separation #'s in college, I just wouldn't draft a Wide Receiver with poor separation.
He needs to become a zone beating WR, his only chance at any NFL success is to recognize zones and find the holes. Otherwise, he's going to be a bust.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

BB the GM's failures can be tied to the inability to replace Nick Cesario as the 'chief personnel advisor' who ran the scouting and drove the draft process. Wolf was brought on because Groh was not doing the job. BB was fired in large part due to the teams drafting that was at least heavily influenced by Wolf. With the 2024 draft being more of the same, it is clear that Wolf is part of the problem and not the solution. Giving the new GM at least two year would make more sense if Wolf was hired from the outside.

 

[silentone]

Oh OK. We should have definitely not drafted this guy....
Gronkowski was named an Associated Press third-team All-American and All-Pac-10 first-team tight end. Prior to the 2009 season, Gronkowski was placed on the watchlist for the Lombardi Award. He missed his junior season in 2009 due to back surgery, which caused his draft stock to fall.

I think Gronk is an intersting example and understand your point. For me, Gronk was very high risk/ high reward. His upside was top notch and his down side was a short NFL career. I didn't think and don't think McConkey offered(s) that upside. For me, Gronk, represented a different risk / reward profile. Providing one positive result (Gronk) about drafting players high in the second round who have meaningful injury risk, doesn't change how I think about McConkey and the Patriots decision during that draft.

 

[Salsalife]

• sports!
• 
  
• Scores

LaddMcConkey​

• Chargers
• #15
• WR

• HT/WT
  6' 0", 185 lbs
• Birthdate
  11/11/2001 (23)
• College
  Georgia

Follow

 

[Salsalife]

I think Gronk is an intersting example and understand your point. For me, Gronk was very high risk/ high reward. His upside was top notch and his down side was a short NFL career. I didn't think and don't think McConkey offered(s) that upside. For me, Gronk, represented a different risk / reward profile. Providing one positive result (Gronk) about drafting players high in the second round who have meaningful injury risk, doesn't change how I think about McConkey and the Patriots decision during that draft.

Ladd the Rookie...69 rec, 960 yards so far, bad dude. Reminds me of Welker type player. You think them numbers would Make ANY of our receivers blush...6 years my friend and we cannot keep missing these types of players. Facts

 

[captain stone]

I disagree with all the criticism heaped on the Patriots for not drafting Ladd McConkey. While I fully acknowledge McConkey has had a strong rookie campaign, at the time of the draft I think he was a risky pick with lots of red flags and I think the Pats showed good judgement not drafting him at 34. Below are the reasons why I feel this way.

Small frame: 6 feet, 185 pounds
Tiny hands: 8 5/8

From draft sharks:
“raw college production is underwhelming”
“never led Georgia in catches or receiving yards”
“played thru turf toe & knee injuries in 2022”
“missed four games with back injury and one with ankle injury last year”
“was a part-time player last year….did not finish top two among Georgia Wrs in pas routes in a single one of his nine games”
“ninth-percentile wingspan, sixth-percentile hand size”

From NFL.com
“modest playing strength”
“alarming number of deep ball-tracking drops in 2022”

Bleacher Report:
“Very skinny frame”
“Poor play strength. Struggles to fight through contact”

NFL Draft Buzz:
Height: 36%
Weight: 15%
Hands:17%
Arm: 19%
Span: 11%

“Lacks twitch…struggles with contested catches”
“Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field & return roles”

I fully acknowledge there are lots of things to like – his speed and athleticism – very good athlete, Won college community service award, finalist for academic Heisman. “Really smart. You can tell he watches a ton of tape with how good he is at picking up on how to attack guys he’s facing” – NFL scouting director.

He will always have small hands and small frame. I believe he will always have above average injury risk. In addition to his 2022 & 2023 college injuries, he is currently dealing with a knee injury and shoulder injury. I don’t think he is durable. Additionally, he may end up as a slot receiver. I think it’s natural, as a Patriot fan, to imagine him as another Edelman or Amendola but Edelman was the 27th pick in the 7th round and Amendola was undrafted.

At the time of the draft, I don’t think McConkey offered favorable risk/reward at pick #34 (very high second round) and still feel that way. While it’s certainly subjective, I disagree with those calling the Patriots staff unintelligent (and worse) for not drafting him there.

I am less upset about the trade-down itself than I am about the compensation received for it. To see what I mean, take a look at what happened with the Very... Next... Pick. That's a ****ing Fireable-ass offense.

 

[captain stone]

BB the GM's failures can be tied to the inability to replace Nick Cesario as the 'chief personnel advisor' who ran the scouting and drove the draft process. Wolf was brought on because Groh was not doing the job. BB was fired in large part due to the teams drafting that was at least heavily influenced by Wolf. With the 2024 draft being more of the same, it is clear that Wolf is part of the problem and not the solution. Giving the new GM at least two year would make more sense if Wolf was hired from the outside.

Agreed. Just for the record however, Wolf arrived here in March 2020, while Little Nicky Cesar was still in the building. The "Collaboration" began in January 2021 after Nicky was hired by Houston, so Al Groh's kid was never Chief Grocery Shopper during that time.

 

[Grogan14]

I disagree with all the criticism heaped on the Patriots for not drafting Ladd McConkey. While I fully acknowledge McConkey has had a strong rookie campaign, at the time of the draft I think he was a risky pick with lots of red flags and I think the Pats showed good judgement not drafting him at 34. Below are the reasons why I feel this way.

Small frame: 6 feet, 185 pounds
Tiny hands: 8 5/8

From draft sharks:
“raw college production is underwhelming”
“never led Georgia in catches or receiving yards”
“played thru turf toe & knee injuries in 2022”
“missed four games with back injury and one with ankle injury last year”
“was a part-time player last year….did not finish top two among Georgia Wrs in pas routes in a single one of his nine games”
“ninth-percentile wingspan, sixth-percentile hand size”

From NFL.com
“modest playing strength”
“alarming number of deep ball-tracking drops in 2022”

Bleacher Report:
“Very skinny frame”
“Poor play strength. Struggles to fight through contact”

NFL Draft Buzz:
Height: 36%
Weight: 15%
Hands:17%
Arm: 19%
Span: 11%

“Lacks twitch…struggles with contested catches”
“Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field & return roles”

I fully acknowledge there are lots of things to like – his speed and athleticism – very good athlete, Won college community service award, finalist for academic Heisman. “Really smart. You can tell he watches a ton of tape with how good he is at picking up on how to attack guys he’s facing” – NFL scouting director.

He will always have small hands and small frame. I believe he will always have above average injury risk. In addition to his 2022 & 2023 college injuries, he is currently dealing with a knee injury and shoulder injury. I don’t think he is durable. Additionally, he may end up as a slot receiver. I think it’s natural, as a Patriot fan, to imagine him as another Edelman or Amendola but Edelman was the 27th pick in the 7th round and Amendola was undrafted.

At the time of the draft, I don’t think McConkey offered favorable risk/reward at pick #34 (very high second round) and still feel that way. While it’s certainly subjective, I disagree with those calling the Patriots staff unintelligent (and worse) for not drafting him there.

You can cherry pick whatever scouting report you want.
Take a look at this one

Ladd McConkey Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Most draft experts had him extremely highly rated and way ahead of Polkie. He passed the eye test and most people on this board were begging pats to take him in real time

So it did not take a genius to recognize the guy was going to be edelman or welker like

Huge f up by Wolf
They tried to get too cute and it failed miserably

Take the god damn obvious pick and stop trying to look like a genius

 

[Grogan14]

I am less upset about the trade-down itself than I am about the compensation received for it. To see what I mean, take a look at what happened with the Very... Next... Pick. That's a ****ing Fireable-ass offense.

Both the pick and the compensation were horrible
No doubt about it

 

[TomPatriot]

You can cherry pick whatever scouting report you want.
Take a look at this one

Ladd McConkey Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Most draft experts had him extremely highly rated and way ahead of Polkie. He passed the eye trst and most people on this board were begging pats to take him in real time

So it did not take a genius to recognize the guy was going to be edelman or welker like

Huge f up by Wolf
They tried to get too cute and it failed miserably

Take the god damn obvious pick and stop trying to look like a genius

I’d love to know the exact scenario, including communications, that caused this pick. Who nixed McConkey? Who wanted the trade? Who wanted Polk? Why?

So why couldn’t the Boston media uncover this? Or did I just miss it?

 

[Grogan14]

I’d love to know the exact scenario, including communications, that caused this pick. Who nixed McConkey? Who wanted the trade? Who wanted Polk? Why?

So why couldn’t the Boston media uncover this? Or did I just miss it?

Boston Media is lazy. Unless you hand it to them on a silver platter, they do not uncover anything on their own

 

[TomPatriot]

Boston Media is lazy. Unless you hand it to them on a silver platter, they do not uncover anything on their own

In my experience, that would describe most media personalities. I would say Boston is better than most. But your point is well taken.

 

[silentone]

You make some good points however:
Never mention separation. With a WR you start with ability to separate and then go from there. He was good at that, has very high acceleration, quick hips, smooth feet, some of the main qualities you want. Yeah, small frame is really the main concern, when teams start pressing him and hitting him as he leaves the line will he wear down?

My main issue with him is injury risk and durability. Without seeing his medicals hard to tell if worth passing.

Even IF you think medicals were worth skipping and IF the Pats were afraid of his medicals, then they were correct to pass on him.

Still does not excuse the Polk pick, Polk had poor separation #'s in college, I just wouldn't draft a Wide Receiver with poor separation.
He needs to become a zone beating WR, his only chance at any NFL success is to recognize zones and find the holes. Otherwise, he's going to be a bust.

Good points KCSVEN
I agree separation is important. The scouting reports seemed to be a mixed bag. I believe some of what you wrote may have come from Bleacher Report and are some good points. NFL Draft Buzz had "Lacks the twitch to consistantly create separation" & "Needs more nuanced route-running to consistently leverage against DB's". NFL.com - "average acceleration driving through route stems". There were also comments on his lack of strength and ability to get off the line of scrimmage. My point, it wasn't 100% concensus that he was a great seperator (I consider getting off the line of scrimmage part of that although you could put him in motion). For me, the medicals are an important part of my point of view. I'd also add, how much did defenses focus on Bowers? (Polk is a whole another conversation)

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Agreed. Just for the record however, Wolf arrived here in March 2020, while Little Nicky Cesar was still in the building. The "Collaboration" began in January 2021 after Nicky was hired by Houston, so Al Groh's kid was never Chief Grocery Shopper during that time.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes his track record with the team worse than I thought.

 

[Ring 6]

Ladd the Rookie...69 rec, 960 yards so far, bad dude. Reminds me of Welker type player. You think them numbers would Make ANY of our receivers blush...6 years my friend and we cannot keep missing these types of players. Facts

Maye needs a Welker.
And Welker was a product of the system that accentuated his biggest strength. We need to have a system that creates something

 

[upstater1]

Are you saying anyone who wanted to sign Kirk Cousins after last season was an idiot?

Signing a QB for $90m, drafting a guy with the 8th pick to replace him, and then getting stuck with a $90m payout is an idiot.

What else would you call it.

Especially with their current coach.