What's going on with the defense: injuries or coaching?

[mike_usagisan]

I thought this was an interesting answer by Evan Lazar in his mailbag:

Q: The defense has been a bit of a letdown this far. How much of their issues are truly injury-related with guys filling roles, and how much is scheme/coaching? - Drew T
Although it's a cop-out answer, it's all the above. The Patriots losing Christian Barmore (blood clots), Ja'Whaun Bentley (shoulder), and Jabrill Peppers (off-field) has been challenging to overcome. It's tough to include Matthew Judon on that list because the Patriots decided to trade him, but without him and Barmore, the Pats are 26th in team pressure rate (29.9%). Bentley and Peppers's physicality in the run game is also sorely missed. When you have a rebuilding roster, the drop-off behind your entrenched starters can be steep.

That said, the two stats that stand out to me about the coaching are the Patriots re-emphasizing base defense and the lack of scheme-created pressure. First, the Pats rank fourth in base personnel usage (37.5%) but are 30th in yards per play allowed in base defense (6.3 yards). Second, the Pats rank 26th in unblocked pressure rate (5.5%) after leading the NFL in scheming up free runners during the 2023 season (9.8%).

In conclusion, you can say it's the personnel and inconsistent fundamentals that are sinking the Patriots defense – that would be a fair assessment. However, the scheming and personnel usage also had a hand in ranking 29th in DVOA over six weeks.

 

[signbabybrady]

Both

Give me Bill, Barmore, Judon, or Bentley and it's better. Give me all 4 and it would actually be good.

Even Stephen would help.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I thought it interesting we've been in base so much since we've barely played in base at all these last few years.

 

[signbabybrady]

I thought it interesting we've been in base so much since we've barely played in base at all these last few years.

And we still can't stop the run.

 

[Pape]

I thought it interesting we've been in base so much since we've barely played in base at all these last few years.

there have been some questionable defensive alignments, as far as personnel is concerned... we've seen a lot more cover two vs man, with Tavai dropping back into coverage...

Okay, i like Tavai, but in coverage? not so much...

 

[maust]

I thought it interesting we've been in base so much since we've barely played in base at all these last few years.

I think Lazar spoke well to that at first but failed to circle back to it in concluding. When you're playing 2nd and 3rd tier guys you are perforce going to find yourself forced into base packages by the circumstances. It's not physical talent alone that makes a starter a starter.

 

[upstater1]

I had hoped the coaching would translate more. Gameplanning, prepping, predicting what the offense is going to do, tendencies, scouting, figuring out what tplays the other team is about to run, coaching up your players so that they can take in ALL this work you've done in all these areas: that's coaching.

But there was always going to be a drop off from the greatest to ever do it. Not everyone is a football lifer with an asocial devotion to the craft.

That being said, Mayo was known as Jerod Belichick for the amount of study he put in, and all that preparedness would only be enhanced with his ability to communicate it to players as a former player himself.

In other words, I had high hopes.

Now I'm looking into Brian Flores.

 

[Brotherblues]

His answer is not cop-out, but nuanced. Loss of Barmore is massive, but then again last year they didn't have Gonzo.

Judon wasn't really part of last year's defense so he can't be included in any comparisons.

Covington does just go quietly about his job, which makes me like him. More than willing to wait until season's end and let people with more schematic knowledge review his performance. Perhaps he evolves as the season goes on.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

It’s like others said. Both, losing a great defensive minded coach hurts, but that good coach can’t do **** about injuries. Maybe mask a weakness when one goes down. Not 4….

 

[TheRainMaker]

Lack of talent and coaching. The talent on defense has been getting worse each year since 2020, but held on for dear life by Bill's scheme. Now that he's gone, their lack of talent is getting exposed when they have a downgrade in coaching/game planning/calling plays. Even if they were fully healthy, they'd get overmatched by the better offensive teams which has been the case going on 5 years now. Too many posters have overrated the players just because they want them to be good.

They need a game changing pass rusher, rangy LB and a center fielder for starters.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Lazar spoke well to that at first but failed to circle back to it in concluding. When you're playing 2nd and 3rd tier guys you are perforce going to find yourself forced into base packages by the circumstances. It's not physical talent alone that makes a starter a starter.

That’s not injury related. The patriot defense for years had made nickel the base. We played 5+ dbs over 95% of the time.
Mayo and Covington have shifted away from that, weakening the pass d but at the same time making the run D worse.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s like others said. Both, losing a great defensive minded coach hurts, but that good coach can’t do **** about injuries. Maybe mask a weakness when one goes down. Not 4….

The defense has always overcome injuries in the past. Last year Judon and Gonzalez were out for 3/4 of the season
It was a game plan defense that utilized many role players and was very good at shielding players weaknesses.
Now it’s a defense that has no role players or depth, doesn’t game plan well and leaves weaknesses exposed.

Have the injuries made it tougher? Sure but w Rey team has injuries and this one has always had a philosophy, scheme and depth to overcome them.
Completely ignoring defense in FA and the draft is a big factor.

As with most issues on this team the GM should be accountable.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Lack of talent and coaching. The talent on defense has been getting worse each year since 2020, but held on for dear life by Bill's scheme. Now that he's gone, their lack of talent is getting exposed when they have a downgrade in coaching/game planning/calling plays. Even if they were fully healthy, they'd get overmatched by the better offensive teams which has been the case going on 5 years now. Too many posters have overrated the players just because they want them to be good.

They need a game changing pass rusher, rangy LB and a center fielder for starters.

Honest question, don’t they already have 2 decent if not 1 great pass rusher in Barmore? White being the other. Albeit ones out. I agree with everything you said though.

 

[Patsfan1645]

there have been some questionable defensive alignments, as far as personnel is concerned... we've seen a lot more cover two vs man, with Tavai dropping back into coverage...

Okay, i like Tavai, but in coverage? not so much...

Totally agree.......he couldn't cover me after a turkey feast and a six pack of Busch Light. Well maybe he could but I like my odds

 

[Patsfan1645]

I had hoped the coaching would translate more. Gameplanning, prepping, predicting what the offense is going to do, tendencies, scouting, figuring out what tplays the other team is about to run, coaching up your players so that they can take in ALL this work you've done in all these areas: that's coaching.

But there was always going to be a drop off from the greatest to ever do it. Not everyone is a football lifer with an asocial devotion to the craft.

That being said, Mayo was known as Jerod Belichick for the amount of study he put in, and all that preparedness would only be enhanced with his ability to communicate it to players as a former player himself.

In other words, I had high hopes.

Now I'm looking into Brian Flores.

Christmas gifts for the coaching staff? Maybe the forum could chip in and send them a couple copies...from Santa of course.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Honest question, don’t they already have 2 decent if not 1 great pass rusher in Barmore? White being the other. Albeit ones out. I agree with everything you said though.

No sacks in 5 games and is tied with 11 other players in the 18th slot for sacks...I don't think I would label him as a great pass rusher.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Honest question, don’t they already have 2 decent if not 1 great pass rusher in Barmore? White being the other. Albeit ones out. I agree with everything you said though.

Not sure why people are still on the White hype train when he's been shooting blanks for 5 straight weeks. Teams got tape on him and shut his ass down real quick.

Barmore had a good year in 2023, but he needs to duplicate it in order to put him as a reliable pass rusher in this defense. He's still not considered a top 10 DT among NFL execs.

The talent level on defensive side of the ball has been poor for years, but fans focus way too much on PFF stats and general rankings without going deeper into why they rank where they rank. Pats look like they're running in quicksand when they play competent offenses.

No sacks in 5 games and is tied with 11 other players in the 18th slot for sacks...I don't think I would label him as a great pass rusher.

I wouldn't even put him in the decent category. Fans desperately want him, Mapu, Gonzalez and the WR's to be good because this team hasn't had game changing draft pick in over 10 years.

 

[mgteich]

THE PROBLEM
Many of thought that we had a good Defense last year and that Covington, Hightower, and the DB coaches could continue with last year's schemes. Of course, we lost our top resource in Belichick, but if the systems and coaches remained close to the same, then we should be fine as the coaches learned in place. After all, we were getting Gonzo, M Jones and Jon Jones back.

WE WERE WRONG
The staff decided to take the 2023 Defense with players that did well within it and change it dramatically. We are no longer a team whose base Defense in the nickel or dime. We have gone back 10 years to the old base Defense with 4 DB's. There is little reason to believe the plyers successful last year will be successful under the new Defensive schemes.

 

[n1997y]

THE PROBLEM
Many of thought that we had a good Defense last year and that Covington, Hightower, and the DB coaches could continue with last year's schemes. Of course, we lost our top resource in Belichick, but if the systems and coaches remained close to the same, then we should be fine as the coaches learned in place. After all, we were getting Gonzo, M Jones and Jon Jones back.

WE WERE WRONG
The staff decided to take the 2023 Defense with players that did well within it and change it dramatically. We are no longer a team whose base Defense in the nickel or dime. We have gone back 10 years to the old base Defense with 4 DB's. There is little reason to believe the plyers successful last year will be successful under the new Defensive schemes.

^^^THIS^^^

To the contrary, there is reason to believe the players will not be successful under the new defensive schemes: the results from the first third of the season.

 

[sportnik]

It's the coaching. Rather than hire the best available defensive coach, the Krafts opted to go the libtard/DEI route & promoted unqualified candidates to HC & DC.

The results are predictable.