Damien Woody's take on Maye timetable - its correct.

[XLIX]

I don't know why you are dinging so much. My argument has nothing to do risking Maye getting hurt. That isn't why I am saying not to rush to start Maye. In fact, I don't think I mentioned injuries at all in my argument not to start Maye right now.

Well if you think that Maye is so mentally fragile that having a few bad games his rookie season is going to "ruin" him for all time, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the NFL in the first place and I sure as hell don't want a player like that on any team I root for.

It is pretty sad how mentally weak you think he is. Maybe we should just sit him on the bench for 4 years. After all, we wouldn't want to "ruin" him!!

 

[Rob0729]

Well if you think that Maye is so mentally fragile that having a few bad games his rookie season is going to "ruin" him for all time, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the NFL in the first place and I sure as hell don't want a player like that on any team I root for.

It is pretty sad how mentally weak you think he is. Maybe we should just sit him on the bench for 4 years. After all, we wouldn't want to "ruin" him!!

Are you a golfer? If so, have you developed bad habit that took you forever to break them? That can happen to QBs, even the best of them. Throw Maye out there, when he is already working to break bad habits, behind an o-line that cannot block a Division III college defense and he may never break those habits and develop more bad habits.

I don't think he is mentally weak. I don't think Sam Darnold was mentally weak when the Jets ruined him either. This time is the most important time for a young QB to develop. Rushing him to play can be very detrimental to his long term future.

 

[XLIX]

Are you a golfer? If so, have you developed bad habit that took you forever to break them?

Are you honestly comparing me golfing to a professional freaking athlete?

Yeah, I slice the ball more often than I should. You know why I haven't broken that habit? Because I work on my golf game maybe 1 hour per week at most on average. If I had multiple professional coaches working with me and I spent 70 hours per week trying to fix my slice, I guarantee you it would go away.

That can happen to QBs, even the best of them. Throw Maye out there, when he is already working to break bad habits, behind an o-line that cannot block a Division III college defense and he may never break those habits and develop more bad habits.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

It is hilarious how you simultaneously talk about how fragile Maye is mentally, how many "bad habits" he has which simply cannot be fixed, how you are terrified of him developing more "bad habits" and yet at the same time can't admit that drafting such an unprepared player at #3 was a mistake. Listening to you talk about him, he should have been a 5th round flyer.

Football players play football. The only way to significantly improve is to play, not watch TV.

I don't think he is mentally weak.

Well, you obviously kinda do because you're so terrified of "bad habits" he may never break and him "being ruined".

I don't think Sam Darnold was mentally weak when the Jets ruined him either. This time is the most important time for a young QB to develop. Rushing him to play can be very detrimental to his long term future.

No. Just no. The only way to get better is to play. You don't get better holding a clipboard.

 

[Rob0729]

Are you honestly comparing me golfing to a professional freaking athlete?

Yeah, I slice the ball more often than I should. You know why I haven't broken that habit? Because I work on my golf game maybe 1 hour per week at most on average. If I had multiple professional coaches working with me and I spent 70 hours per week trying to fix my slice, I guarantee you it would go away.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

It is hilarious how you simultaneously talk about how fragile Maye is mentally, how many "bad habits" he has which simply cannot be fixed, how you are terrified of him developing more "bad habits" and yet at the same time can't admit that drafting such an unprepared player at #3 was a mistake. Listening to you talk about him, he should have been a 5th round flyer.

Football players play football. The only way to significantly improve is to play, not watch TV.


Well, you obviously kinda do because you're so terrified of "bad habits" he may never break and him "being ruined".

No. Just no. The only way to get better is to play. You don't get better holding a clipboard.

LOL! When did I ever say Maye was mentally fragile? You like to create arguments to argue against by creating false narratives of things I am arguing that I am clearly not. I never said Maye was fragile mentally like Mac Jones or Tony Eason. I never said I was worried about Maye getting injured if he played. Stop putting words into my post.

And I used the golf analogy to put it in terms you would understand. Apparently, it was beyond your understanding.

And playing is not the only way to get better. Brady said his rookie year of not playing was invaluable to his development and thinks Maye and other rookie QBs should sit their rookie season. Most QBs come into college as red shirts their freshman years and learn how to play the game at the college level. They get better by not playing. But I will take Brady's opinion over your's.

 

[ViperGTS]

People are saying Jacoby is sensing the rush, and looking at the rush instead of looking downfield etc etc. I saw a little bit that with Maye in the last pre season game when he started getting hit.

So do you want your new, young possible franchise QB starting to see ghosts because the line is a bit sucky right now? If it took Jacoby 4 games to get there, might only take Maye 1 or even 2. With Andrews' situation not looking great, you keep the kid on the sidelines.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

People are saying Jacoby is sensing the rush, and looking at the rush instead of looking downfield etc etc. I saw a little bit that with Maye in the last pre season game when he started getting hit.

So do you want your new, young possible franchise QB starting to see ghosts because the line is a bit sucky right now? If it took Jacoby 4 games to get there, might only take Maye 1 or even 2. With Andrews' situation not looking great, you keep the kid on the sidelines.

My god Mac Jones really « ruined » a lot of Pats posters.

 

[ViperGTS]

My god Mac Jones really « ruined » a lot of Pats posters.

A lot of QBs have been ruined by that. I was always on the side of not playing him until late October/November anyways. He's pretty raw and I want all the bad habits out of him before they put him out there.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

LOL! When did I ever say Maye was mentally fragile? You like to create arguments to argue against by creating false narratives of things I am arguing that I am clearly not. I never said Maye was fragile mentally like Mac Jones or Tony Eason. I never said I was worried about Maye getting injured if he played. Stop putting words into my post.

And I used the golf analogy to put it in terms you would understand. Apparently, it was beyond your understanding.

And playing is not the only way to get better. Brady said his rookie year of not playing was invaluable to his development and thinks Maye and other rookie QBs should sit their rookie season. Most QBs come into college as red shirts their freshman years and learn how to play the game at the college level. They get better by not playing. But I will take Brady's opinion over your's.

shocker Brady advocating for what worked for him. Manning said the exact opposite. So i’ll take Manning opinion over yours. There is no blue print how to develop a QB.

If sitting a guy one year was the solution every team would do it.

Just out of curiosity what is your top 10 QB right now?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

A lot of QBs have been ruined by that. I was always on the side of not playing him until late October/November anyways. He's pretty raw and I want all the bad habits out of him before they put him out there.

mental toughness is a trait that a QB need to have in order to be successful in the NFL. I have yet to see a good QB ruined by anything. Plenty of QB like Carr had plenty of physical ability but lack the mental makeup needed to succeed at the NFL level if you want to call ruin fine by me.

Part of the draft is to be able to evaluate the physical ability of the prospect but also his mental makeup which is much harder I agree. Too many teams are simply focusing on the physical trait and not enough on the mental side. That how you end up with QB that are « ruined ».

In my opinion you can take guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Herbert behind this OL even as rookies and they wouldn’t be ruined because they have that mental toughness required to succeed. I think Maye has that trait too that’s why I’m not too worried that he’ll get so called ruined. In the other hand I saw pretty quickly for example that Mac didn’t have what it take mentally to be a legit starter in this league.

Secondly Maye isn’t that raw that was the easy narrative coming from the mainstream media that didn’t watch a lot of his film. Also I think we need to recalibrate a little bit here. Maye is never gonna be the perfect QB mechanically. you’ll have to live with that. If you wait for him to never have bad footwork again or to have the perfect throwing motion, you are gonna be waiting for a while. Certain guys are just like that and it works for them.

 

[XLIX]

LOL! When did I ever say Maye was mentally fragile?

You have stated time and time again how worried you are that he is going to be "ruined" and that he might fall into "bad habits" and "bad mechanics" that he may "never break those habits and develop more bad habits never get out of." You want him to stay nice and safe and sound on the sidelines for an entire season.

You may not have ever specifically stated he is mentally fragile but your statements prove that is how you feel about him.

And I used the golf analogy to put it in terms you would understand. Apparently, it was beyond your understanding.

Now now... you're the idiot that compared my 1-hour-per-week golf game to a professional NFL quarterback selected #3 overall... don't get all pissy for me calling out how moronic that analogy is....

Most QBs come into college as red shirts their freshman years and learn how to play the game at the college level. They get better by not playing.

Another moronic analogy. In college, you only have 4 years of eligibility. Those red shirt quarterbacks are sitting behind better starters and saving their eligibility for later. If you told me we only had 4 years of Drake Maye and then he leaves and never comes back, then yeah I would want to red shirt him his rookie season. But I am intelligent enough to know that comparing a Freshman college QB to a rookie NFL QB is sheer idiocy.

Unless your argument is that Brissett is a better QB than Maye, then your red shirt comparison - like all your others - is epic fail.

 

[lancerman]

mental toughness is a trait that a QB need to have in order to be successful in the NFL. I have yet to see a good QB ruined by anything. Plenty of QB like Carr had plenty of physical ability but lack the mental makeup needed to succeed at the NFL level if you want to call ruin fine by me.

Part of the draft is to be able to evaluate the physical ability of the prospect but also his mental makeup which is much harder I agree. Too many teams are simply focusing on the physical trait and not enough on the mental side. That how you end up with QB that are « ruined ».

In my opinion you can take guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Herbert behind this OL even as rookies and they wouldn’t be ruined because they have that mental toughness required to succeed. I think Maye has that trait too that’s why I’m not too worried that he’ll get so called ruined. In the other hand I saw pretty quickly for example that Mac didn’t have what it take mentally to be a legit starter in this league.

Secondly Maye isn’t that raw that was the easy narrative coming from the mainstream media that didn’t watch a lot of his film. Also I think we need to recalibrate a little bit here. Maye is never gonna be the perfect QB mechanically. you’ll have to live with that. If you wait for him to never have bad footwork again or to have the perfect throwing motion, you are gonna be waiting for a while. Certain guys are just like that and it works for them.

The biggest difference between Peyton Manning and the other elite QB's in his era was that he had an interception problem. That problem started in year one when he was thrown into the fire on a horrific Colts team and led the league in INT's. He always had a higher INT number than many of his peers even when his best traits started to develop. Those interceptions were largely the center of his big choke moments in the NFL.

It's not about mental toughness. It's about getting the correct habits developed while you have a controlled situation before bad habits become ingrained out of neccessity because they had to produce results right away.

Aaron Rodgers had to basically relearn a lot of his mechanics before he became what he did. He would have been much worse off being asked to replace Favre on day 1 and dealing with that pressure while being asked to change his mechanics than he was being fully baked. Mahomes benefitted by having a year to work with Kafka and fine tune everything and coming into a better situation. Brady as good as he was, largely benefitted from sitting and aborbing knowledge and seeing Bledsoe's mistakes and then coming in on a much better team than the 2000 team so he a chance to succeed right away.

You absolutely can fix a QB's mechanics. We've seen that happen. Rodgers is a great example of that. It's just never going to happen simultaneously with being forced to fight for your life behind a line like this.

Anyways to your next point. We saw Allen and Burrow on ****ty teams when they started. Allen looked like he was about to be a bust until they got Diggs. That saved him and took a ton of pressure off him. He would have looked like dogshit on this team based on how he was his first two years on a much better Bills team. Burrow was getting killed behind that trash line his first year. Herbert is already getting snakebitten. Mahomes and Lamar came into good situations from the start, you can't just assume they are the same guys. Especially Mahomes. Being forced to start year one on a team like this instead of sitting a year and working with a QB whisperer and then coming out to play with the best current TE, best WR, and having a stud RB like Hunt along with an Andy Reid offense is like a dream scenario.

 

[Rob0729]

shocker Brady advocating for what worked for him. Manning said the exact opposite. So i’ll take Manning opinion over yours. There is no blue print how to develop a QB.

If sitting a guy one year was the solution every team would do it.

Just out of curiosity what is your top 10 QB right now?

Does Manning actually say that Maye should start right away? Maybe Manning feels he would have been better off if the Colts sat him a year. Maybe he thinks he might have gotten another Super Bowl if he sat out.

I have no idea who is my top ten right now, but right now it includes Sam Darnold and near the top. A guy who was seeing ghosts early in his career because the Jets put him in the starting line up way too quickly.

 

[Rob0729]

You have stated time and time again how worried you are that he is going to be "ruined" and that he might fall into "bad habits" and "bad mechanics" that he may "never break those habits and develop more bad habits never get out of." You want him to stay nice and safe and sound on the sidelines for an entire season.

You may not have ever specifically stated he is mentally fragile but your statements prove that is how you feel about him.

Now now... you're the idiot that compared my 1-hour-per-week golf game to a professional NFL quarterback selected #3 overall... don't get all pissy for me calling out how moronic that analogy is....

Another moronic analogy. In college, you only have 4 years of eligibility. Those red shirt quarterbacks are sitting behind better starters and saving their eligibility for later. If you told me we only had 4 years of Drake Maye and then he leaves and never comes back, then yeah I would want to red shirt him his rookie season. But I am intelligent enough to know that comparing a Freshman college QB to a rookie NFL QB is sheer idiocy.

Unless your argument is that Brissett is a better QB than Maye, then your red shirt comparison - like all your others - is epic fail.

Developing bad habits have nothing to do with being mentally fragile. If that was the case, Maye is mentally fragile because he came into the league a mess in terms of mechanics. They are working him out of bad habits he already have developed.

No you are the idiot not being able to get that I was using an analogy for you to better understand a perspective that you clearly demonstrate you do not understand.

Ok, you win. When a QB is redshirted his freshman year, he learns absolutely nothing. It is like taking a gap year in between high school and college where does nothing football related and just bangs co-eds and goes to frat parties. It is known fact that when a QB comes to college the head coach says there is better player already starting so take the year off and we will see you next season.

I get why players are redshirted. I never said they are redshirted to learn how to play the sport. I stated that they are redshirted (didn't say why) and they learn during that time how to play the game at the college level. I didn't say they are redshirted so they can learn. I say that when they are redshirted, they learn a whole lot about how to play the game.

 

[XLIX]

Developing bad habits have nothing to do with being mentally fragile. If that was the case, Maye is mentally fragile because he came into the league a mess in terms of mechanics.

Wow. What a wonderful endorsement for taking a guy #3 overall.

No you are the idiot not being able to get that I was using an analogy for you to better understand a perspective that you clearly demonstrate you do not understand.

"Are you a golfer? If so, have you developed bad habit that took you forever to break them? That can happen to QBs, even the best of them." - Rob0729 (direct quote)

Comparing my bad golf habits (when I play maybe 1 hour per week on average) to a professional quarterback with a team of coaches who works 70+ hours per week was absolutely moronic.

Ok, you win. When a QB is redshirted his freshman year, he learns absolutely nothing. It is like taking a gap year in between high school and college where does nothing football related and just bangs co-eds and goes to frat parties. It is known fact that when a QB comes to college the head coach says there is better player already starting so take the year off and we will see you next season.

Oh and BTW.... yes "most" college freshman QBs are red shirted - but the best ones are usually not. Drake Maye was a top 3 overall pick. The college freshman equivalent of Drake Maye would most likely NOT be red shirted his Freshman year.

 

[Rob0729]

Wow. What a wonderful endorsement for taking a guy #3 overall.

"Are you a golfer? If so, have you developed bad habit that took you forever to break them? That can happen to QBs, even the best of them." - Rob0729 (direct quote)

Comparing my bad golf habits (when I play maybe 1 hour per week on average) to a professional quarterback with a team of coaches who works 70+ hours per week was absolutely moronic.

Oh and BTW.... yes "most" college freshman QBs are red shirted - but the best ones are usually not. Drake Maye was a top 3 overall pick. The college freshman equivalent of Drake Maye would most likely NOT be red shirted his Freshman year.

Drake Maye has elite raw physical skills. He had mechanical issues and needed to be coached out of them. That is the same scouting report for Aaron Rodgers. Or Josh Allen. Or Patrick Mahomes.

Again, I have explained what I meant about the golf thing. You can keep on trying to try to spin it anyway you want. If my original intent wasn't clear, the multiple posts afterwards have explained it.

And even a lot of the best QBs coming out of high school do not play their freshman years. It is the exception, not the rule that a QB starts his rookie year. And Maye played at UNC. He clearly wasn't one of the best QB coming out of high school or he would have played for a better team in a better conference. Yes, he originally committed to Alabama and switched to UNC, but that was probably because he knew that he would have a better chance of starting at UNC.

BTW, a lot of scouting reports I questioned whether a lot of his bad habits were caused by playing behind a really bad offensive like at UNC. Here is an example:

Sources Tell Us​

“He’s big and mobile and can sling it around but he didn’t play consistent football (in 2023). I thought his processing was a problem but it was hard to tell sometimes because of how his line played in front of him.” - AFC personnel director

Drake Maye Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

 

[The Gr8est]

You don't think watching film and practicing will help better read a defense? I want to see him too, just want him to be ready when he gets out there.

It can also prevent a relapse on his footwork development, as he may revert back to muscle memory when running for his life.

 

[XLIX]

Drake Maye has elite raw physical skills. He had mechanical issues and needed to be coached out of them. That is the same scouting report for Aaron Rodgers. Or Josh Allen. Or Patrick Mahomes.

"Elite physical skills, needs NFL level coaching." Congratulations. You just described every single draft pick ever selected. Thanks for the brilliant insight.

Again, I have explained what I meant about the golf thing. You can keep on trying to try to spin it anyway you want. If my original intent wasn't clear, the multiple posts afterwards have explained it.

You can "explain" it all you want, doesn't change the fact that it was a stupid analogy.

And even a lot of the best QBs coming out of high school do not play their freshman years. It is the exception, not the rule that a QB starts his rookie year.

You didn't say starts, you said red shirts. Great job moving the goalposts and hoping nobody notices.

It is true that most true freshman QB's in the nation red shirt. It is equally true that most of the very best true freshman QBs in the nation do not red shirt. The best freshmen usually see playing time.

Being the #3 overall pick in the draft, one would expect an immediate impact, not a clipboard holder.

“He’s big and mobile and can sling it around but he didn’t play consistent football (in 2023). I thought his processing was a problem but it was hard to tell sometimes because of how his line played in front of him.” - AFC personnel director

Drake Maye Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Sounds like a 5th round flyer to me. And yet the braintrust in Foxboro took him #3 overall.

 

[ViperGTS]

"Elite physical skills, needs NFL level coaching." Congratulations. You just described every single draft pick ever selected. Thanks for the brilliant insight.

You can "explain" it all you want, doesn't change the fact that it was a stupid analogy.

You didn't say starts, you said red shirts. Great job moving the goalposts and hoping nobody notices.

It is true that most true freshman QB's in the nation red shirt. It is equally true that most of the very best true freshman QBs in the nation do not red shirt. The best freshmen usually see playing time.

Being the #3 overall pick in the draft, one would expect an immediate impact, not a clipboard holder.

Sounds like a 5th round flyer to me. And yet the braintrust in Foxboro took him #3 overall.

#3 or Mr. Irrelevant. If they sit a year, they sit a year. When Maye is tossing TDs left and right I want to hear NOTHING from you. Absolutely nothing. You don't get that right anymore.

 

[XLIX]

#3 or Mr. Irrelevant. If they sit a year, they sit a year.

No. Just no. You don't draft a project at #3, you draft a game ready starter. Mr. Irrelevant? Yeah, drafting a project there is fine.

Notice how I am not criticizing the team for sitting Milton. I have no problem with a late rounder holding a clipboard. But #3 overall? That's where you draft an NFL ready player.

When Maye is tossing TDs left and right I want to hear NOTHING from you. Absolutely nothing. You don't get that right anymore.

First of all, I will say whatever I want to whenever I want to (subject to forum rules, of course).

Second of all, what you say makes no sense. I am here advocating for the guy to play. I WANT to get his career up and going. I am critical of the people here saying he isn't ready. I am critical of the people here saying Maye is "a mess in terms of mechanics." We spent the #3 overall on the guy and yeah, I want him on the field, not holding a clipboard.

So ignoring that fact that I will say whatever I want to whenever I want to, I don't see the logic in your statement that I don't have the right to say anything when he is throwing TDs left and right. If I had my way, he would be starting against Miami.

 

[Triumph]

Wheres Bethel Johnson?

Id like to read his opinion on the Maye situation.