Defensive Snap Counts 9/8 vs Bengals.

[Sciz]

This is something I was noticing and slightly OT but; it's good that the count was down, correct? We're so used to the high snap counts of the last few years, which themselves could lead to injury.

I wonder if it will be a trend, if finally the offense can chew some time and save snaps from the defense getting exhausted.

Yes, with rare exceptions. It’s not necessarily good to run down the clock with long drives that result in no points. A three and out is the same number of plays as a three and touchdown. D/ST scores are awesome but result in more defensive snaps.

The Texans had the fewest defensive snaps yesterday, but that included allowing 1, 3, and 4 play TD drives. They salvaged the day by ending the game with touchdown drives of 11 and 13 plays, followed by 8 plays to run out the clock.

 

[Wozzy]

So, there is no need for an DT upgrade because we have good Dt's.

1) The DT's are so good that we needed to elevate a Practice Squad player for the game.

Who? Hill made the initial 53, moving him down was basic roster manipulation so they could look at waiver wire players: He was always next up on the depth chart. Kevin Harris is next up if Rhamondre gets hurt and he’s on the practice squad, that means nothing.

2) So, we needed no upgrade from Hill. Well, we cut him and then signed a player off waivers. Eric Johnson just isn't ready yet. We will then have Pharms, Ekuale and Johnson as our depth. I'm OK with that; there is no choice. But I would hardly call them "good".

Eric Johnson isn’t ready? That’s silly, he has played all preseason. He’s a DT, his job isn’t hard. He was a waiver pickup so they could get a closer look at him. He could get cut tomorrow.

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3) I guess there is some miscommunication. When I talk about upgrades, I am not talking about this year. That ship has sailed, unless Wolf surprises us with a trade, perhaps for a center.

LET US SEE WHO WE HAVE FOR 2025
A) We will have Barmore, presuming a full recovery; we will have Godchaux and we will have question mark Eric Johnson.
B) No one else is signed and should be carrying 5 DT's and non-EDGE DE's.
C) None of Wise, Pharms, Ekuale are signed for 2025. It not clear whether any of them will or should be re-signed.

BOTTOM LINE
We disagree. That's fine.
I just don't consider Pharms and Ekuale as good players. I am not sure that Wise will be extended. And I nothing about Eric Johnson.

So, sure, I would welcome an upgrade or two.

Good enough, good against the run… they’re good. Hill is talented and played great this preseason, with him and Pharms they have depth. Keion White plays DT on pass rushing downs, they have options.

 

[mgteich]

Who? Hill made the initial 53, moving him down was basic roster manipulation so they could look at waiver wire players: He was always next up on the depth chart. Kevin Harris is next up if Rhamondre gets hurt and he’s on the practice squad, that means nothing.

Eric Johnson isn’t ready? That’s silly, he has played all preseason. He’s a DT, his job isn’t hard. He was a waiver pickup so they could get a closer look at him. He could get cut tomorrow.

Good enough, good against the run… they’re good. Hill is talented and played great this preseason, with him and Pharms they have depth. Keion White plays DT on pass rushing downs, they have options.

1) I stand corrected as far as Hill is concerned. However he was on the Practice Squad last week I don't see why you would consider him next up on the depth chart. I guess we'll see in a couple of days. He'll either be back of the Practice Squad or he won't. Hill is a great player who plays on the Practice Squad. How exactly does that work?

In any case, a Practice Squad player can only be elevated three times before counting against the 53-man roster.

2) Your idea of being ready to play is truly astounding. Some players require a couple of weeks to be integrated into their new team's system. I think it instructive that the ONLY inactives were the injured Sow, Baker, and the four players that have been claimed.

 

[Real fan 02]

@Real fan 02 I wonder if this was the plan before Higgins went out.

What a great game plan. As I was sure he'd had been on Higgins had he played! This defense is on a mission this season.

 

[Wozzy]

1) I stand corrected as far as Hill is concerned. However he was on the Practice Squad last week I don't see why you would consider him next up on the depth chart. I guess we'll see in a couple of days. He'll either be back of the Practice Squad or he won't. Hill is a great player who plays on the Practice Squad. How exactly does that work?

In any case, a Practice Squad player can only be elevated three times before counting against the 53-man roster.

I didn't say Hill was great, I said he played great in preseason which is a new development for him in his young career.

He was 2nd round draft choice for the Cowboys, this based off his excellent athleticism. To date he has been an underachiever, but some prospects take longer to develop and mature than others... and that athleticism still exists. If his maturity catches up to his athleticism the Patriots may have a player on their hands.

2) Your idea of being ready to play is truly astounding. Some players require a couple of weeks to be integrated into their new team's system. I think it instructive that the ONLY inactives were the injured Sow, Baker, and the four players that have been claimed.

Defensive line play isn't like asking Eric Johnson to play QB, his job is pretty simple. He's an undersized speed DT, they want him theoretically to fill the position they assumed Armon Watts would fill, pass rushing specialist on long downs. I like some things about Johnson as well, he's got good speed and explosion. Right now Hill is just a better player who can do more, which is why he was active and Johnson was in street clothes. Assuming things remain status quo Hill will stick on the 53 permanently and Johnson will move down to the practice squad.

Teams use the week before game one and often the first couple weeks to look at as many different waiver wire players as possible to improve their team or just to have a list of players they can bring in later on if injury occurs. They need roster spots to look at these player due to the rules so they place players on their PS they plan to keep but hope nobody else will poach, we see a lot of those guys active on game day.

 

[mgteich]

I. Right now Hill is just a better player who can do more, which is why he was active and Johnson was in street clothes. Assuming things remain status quo Hill will stick on the 53 permanently and Johnson will move down to the practice squad.

Yes, this is the open question.

Of course, Johnson would be subject to another team picking him up off waivers as we did.
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So, we pick up four players off waivers. They are all inactive. To you, that means that they aren't as good as those we alteady have ln the Practice Squad.

OK, but this seems a strange position to me. For you the waiver process was just a method to bring in a few tryouts.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, this is the open question.

Of course, Johnson would be subject to another team picking him up off waivers as we did.
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So, we pick up four players off waivers. They are all inactive. To you, that means that they aren't as good as those we alteady have ln the Practice Squad.

OK, but this seems a strange position to me. For you the waiver process was just a method to bring in a few tryouts.

We started this conversation with you telling me the players we picked up on waivers were better than the ones we moved down to the practice squad.

When I told you this was a procedural move and those practice squad players were active on Sunday while the waiver wire players weren’t now you still don’t understand?

There’s only 53 roster spots. If you want to add waiver wire players after cutdowns you have to add them to your active roster. The PS is nothing more than an extension of the 53. It doesn’t matter who is designated where… only who is active and contributing. The first month of football teams are still solidifying their roster.

The Pats snatched these waiver wire guys to give them a tryout, nothing more. They now have to earn a roster spot.

 

[captain stone]

…If anything, Pharms should get more reps to keep Godchaux fresher.

Little Jerry Pharma sucks. Absolutely Sucks. I’d rather have the Big Guy return than see one more snap from this never-was from a sit-com college.

 

[captain stone]

And one of those 3 catches came when the playcall inexplicably set Gonzalez 10 yards off from Chase on 3rd and 5. I can only think someone else had the short area responsibility on Chase and failed.

I remember that same play and thinking, What the ****?!? It reminded me of Marcus the Midget vs Devante Adams on 4th/10 in LV…

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Little Jerry Pharma sucks. Absolutely Sucks. I’d rather have the Big Guy return than see one more snap from this never-was from a sit-com college.

Something must be amiss with guy. He sounds like the easy solution here but hes gotten almost zero interest league wide. To my knowledge only Baltimore has even looked at him and they were another obvious destination with former roots there. It sounds like we’re better off with these prospects. I saw some clips of eric Johnson in indy he seemed pretty disruptive. But reading some threads on him colts fans weren’t upset at losing him or anything. Hopefully they were just really deep there

 

[captain stone]

I like you. You have so much faith and hope. It’s an excellent quality.

I’m more of a glass half empty. While I would love to see it, I do not see NE competing with the big dawgs in 2025, nor 2026.

Fortunes can change quickly if the right HC, OC & QB are in place…

 

[mgteich]

We started this conversation with you telling me the players we picked up on waivers were better than the ones we moved down to the practice squad.

When I told you this was a procedural move and those practice squad players were active on Sunday while the waiver wire players weren’t now you still don’t understand?

There’s only 53 roster spots. If you want to add waiver wire players after cutdowns you have to add them to your active roster. The PS is nothing more than an extension of the 53. It doesn’t matter who is designated where… only who is active and contributing. The first month of football teams are still solidifying their roster.

The Pats snatched these waiver wire guys to give them a tryout, nothing more. They now have to earn a roster spot.

OK. Let's look at TODAY.

TODAY, Jordan and Hill are on the Practice Squad. They are NOT on the roster. They can be signed by any team. We have ZERO rights to keep them.

You believe that the fact that Zach Thomas and Eric Johnson are on the 53-man roster doesn't mean that the team thinks that they are better than the Practice Squad players.

I strongly disagree. Zach Thomas replaced Jordan for NOW. Eric replaced Hill for NOW. It is really just that simple.
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We have a 53-man roster, not a 70-man roster. The players on the 53 are in a much different position that those on the 17 Practice Squad.

 

[mgteich]

Little Jerry Pharma sucks. Absolutely Sucks. I’d rather have the Big Guy return than see one more snap from this never-was from a sit-com college.

So?

Pharms is at the bottom of our roster as a backup to Godchaux.

We have signed Eric Johnson who we hope can take his reps. We have also signed a NT to the Practice Squad. Pharms at the bottom player on the DL depth chart along with whoever elevate is a given game. Pharms and Hill got a total of 18 defensive snaps. Hopefully they will get fewer in the future.

 

[Wozzy]

OK. Let's look at TODAY.

TODAY, Jordan and Hill are on the Practice Squad. They are NOT on the roster. They can be signed by any team. We have ZERO rights to keep them.

You believe that the fact that Zach Thomas and Eric Johnson are on the 53-man roster doesn't mean that the team thinks that they are better than the Practice Squad players.

I strongly disagree. Zach Thomas replaced Jordan for NOW. Eric replaced Hill for NOW. It is really just that simple.
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We have a 53-man roster, not a 70-man roster. The players on the 53 are in a much different position that those on the 17 Practice Squad.

The only sure way the Patriots could get a chance to look at these waiver players was to sign them to the 53.

You’re attributing to competency what is nothing more than roster manipulation. This has happened every season for decades. Just stop…

 

[Family]

They sold their soul's for a few games.

Mike Reiss today:

Ekuale ailing: Veteran defensive tackle Daniel Ekuale has been thrust into a starting role this season after the Patriots lost Christian Barmore (blood clots) in the preseason, playing more than anyone at the position (74.5% of the defensive snaps). The expanded workload caught up to him Thursday when he strained his oblique at practice, according to a team source, and then was held out of Friday's practice.

 

[Real fan 02]

They sold their soul's for a few games.

Mike Reiss today:

Ekuale ailing: Veteran defensive tackle Daniel Ekuale has been thrust into a starting role this season after the Patriots lost Christian Barmore (blood clots) in the preseason, playing more than anyone at the position (74.5% of the defensive snaps). The expanded workload caught up to him Thursday when he strained his oblique at practice, according to a team source, and then was held out of Friday's practice.

Wouldn't make a difference if he was fully healthy..

 

[Family]

Wouldn't make a difference if he was fully healthy..

But you coach to do the right thing for your players and team.

Really setting up that culture is the only thing that makes a difference this year.

 

[Real fan 02]

But you coach to do the right thing for your players and team.

Really setting up that culture is the only thing that makes a difference this year.

Your right. Here's the thing. Bill didn't forget how to coach, Mayo didn't forget all the the things he learned as a player and under Bill. You can coach up players the best you can. It's on them as professional NFL players to execute. If Brady on offense or ty law on defense never executed what they were being coached then it would've reflected back on Bill. Mayo's experiencing that now. He's got the same problem Bill had no talent. A coach needs talent to be able to coach up, and have the players execute based on what they are being asked to do, and then go utilize thisr talents to make it happen. We cannot over look that this is a bottom roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Your right. Here's the thing. Bill didn't forget how to coach, Mayo didn't forget all the the things he learned as a player and under Bill. You can coach up players the best you can. It's on them as professional NFL players to execute. If Brady on offense or ty law on defense never executed what they were being coached then it would've reflected back on Bill. Mayo's experiencing that now. He's got the same problem Bill had no talent. A coach needs talent to be able to coach up, and have the players execute based on what they are being asked to do, and then go utilize thisr talents to make it happen. We cannot over look that this is a bottom roster.

The difference here is that belichick has a long, storied history that proves he can coach. Mayo does not. Mayo has no track record, and there is not a thing you can point to that he has positively impacted as HC.
What you are saying is like saying Hue Jackson is no different than Bill
Walsh because all coaches know how to coach and their results have nothing to do with them.

 

[Real fan 02]

The difference here is that belichick has a long, storied history that proves he can coach. Mayo does not. Mayo has no track record, and there is not a thing you can point to that he has positively impacted as HC.
What you are saying is like saying Hue Jackson is no different than Bill
Walsh because all coaches know how to coach and their results have nothing to do with them.

I get that not disputing it. Everyone has to start from somewhere. Bill began his coaching career as an errand boy, quality control person.. and ended up being the GOAT HC. Mayo does bring some qualities to the table as a great player, champion,and team captain, and he's a BB guy. Bill drafted him, developed him and brung him into coaching after his playing career. So we must remember that.