So, how you feeling about our draft class?

[Hugepatsfan]

It's going to be pretty hard to top 2010 (McCourty, Gronk), 2012 (Hightower, Chandler Jones), 2002 (Branch, Givens, Graham, Green), or 2001 (Seymour, Light). I hope I'm wrong but I'm doubting 2024 has any Pro Bowlers let alone HOFers.

Don't forget 2003... Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Tully Banta-Cain.

It's easy to fixate on which picks BB got wrong, but over 24 years they were pretty consistently churning out 2-3 starting caliber players annually.

2000, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, maybe 2022 are the only drafts I can definitively say they didn't get multiple starting caliber players.

And even breaking down further...

in 2000 they got the best QB of all time.
In 2006 they got a HoF kicker and someone who went on to be a quality player at a premium spot elsewhere in DE Jeremy Mincey.
In 2007 they got Meriweather who had flaws but was a quality player for a while.
In 2008 they got an all pro LB in Mayo.
In 2017 it was a total whiff outside of Wise but they didn't pick before the 3rd round where they had two picks used on Derek Rivers who had multiple training camp ACL tears and an OT in Antonio Garcia who got cancer and could never put on enough weight to realistically even try to play again).
In 2018 they got Bentley and Michel/Wynn/Berrios aren't total zeroes (particularly Berrios for where he went)
2019 was really a total whiff outside of Damian Harris who wasn't even that much
2022 looks tough now in part because Jack Jones flopped here. But we'll see

The problem BB has when people judge his drafts here are that they're comparing a 24 year sample size to the flavor of the month GM. History is littered with GMs that go on a heater and look like the greatest mind ever only to come crashing back down to Earth. People love Howie now and get got PHI to a SB back in 2017, but people forget that in between that he was being called to get fired between that. Same with Ballard in IND, Schneider in SEA, etc. All of them burst onto the scene and are getting praise now but in between had really bad stretches.

People here always want to smooth out BB's 24 years and average it out and then compare it to the guys on a hot streak. That's not fair. 24 years of excellent drafting isn't a fair standard. No one can do that, it's too much of an inexact science.

 

[Toofy]

Don't forget 2003... Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Tully Banta-Cain.

It's easy to fixate on which picks BB got wrong, but over 24 years they were pretty consistently churning out 2-3 starting caliber players annually.

2000, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, maybe 2022 are the only drafts I can definitively say they didn't get multiple starting caliber players.

And even breaking down further...

in 2000 they got the best QB of all time.
In 2006 they got a HoF kicker and someone who went on to be a quality player at a premium spot elsewhere in DE Jeremy Mincey.
In 2007 they got Meriweather who had flaws but was a quality player for a while.
In 2008 they got an all pro LB in Mayo.
In 2017 it was a total whiff outside of Wise but they didn't pick before the 3rd round where they had two picks used on Derek Rivers who had multiple training camp ACL tears and an OT in Antonio Garcia who got cancer and could never put on enough weight to realistically even try to play again).
In 2018 they got Bentley and Michel/Wynn/Berrios aren't total zeroes (particularly Berrios for where he went)
2019 was really a total whiff outside of Damian Harris who wasn't even that much
2022 looks tough now in part because Jack Jones flopped here. But we'll see

The problem BB has when people judge his drafts here are that they're comparing a 24 year sample size to the flavor of the month GM. History is littered with GMs that go on a heater and look like the greatest mind ever only to come crashing back down to Earth. People love Howie now and get got PHI to a SB back in 2017, but people forget that in between that he was being called to get fired between that. Same with Ballard in IND, Schneider in SEA, etc. All of them burst onto the scene and are getting praise now but in between had really bad stretches.

People here always want to smooth out BB's 24 years and average it out and then compare it to the guys on a hot streak. That's not fair. 24 years of excellent drafting isn't a fair standard. No one can do that, it's too much of an inexact science.

bill had a terrible ending stretch that coincided with brady leaving , some questionable coaching decisions and patriots looking unwatchable. in the end, father time won.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

bill had a terrible ending stretch that coincided with brady leaving , some questionable coaching decisions and patriots looking unwatchable. in the end, father time won.

For sure. Not questioning that it was time to move on. It felt like he was adverse to change and as all of his "buddies" were retiring he wasn't able to fill a coaching/personnel staff around him and forced to do nonsense like making Patricia/Judge offensive coaches. It seemed like he was falling out of touch with the modern athlete and how to relate to/motivate them. And draft wise it felt like some of his positional archetypes and character assessments were lagging behind the modern game and was negatively influencing their picks. Lots of troubling signs at the end that just didn't point to him being the guy to turn this around.

I was just speaking about the overall criticism of his drafting. It's something he constantly gets called out for which I don't agree with. The other factor I forgot to mention is that with a lot of things being made out to be "Brady vs. Belichick" there's so much focus on their WR drafting because that's seen as a direct talking point there. They did terribly there, but overall for 24 years he was an outstanding GM both draft and FA. I stand by that, even if it was time to move on.

 

[Toofy]

For sure. Not questioning that it was time to move on. It felt like he was adverse to change and as all of his "buddies" were retiring he wasn't able to fill a coaching/personnel staff around him and forced to do nonsense like making Patricia/Judge offensive coaches. It seemed like he was falling out of touch with the modern athlete and how to relate to/motivate them. And draft wise it felt like some of his positional archetypes and character assessments were lagging behind the modern game and was negatively influencing their picks. Lots of troubling signs at the end that just didn't point to him being the guy to turn this around.

I was just speaking about the overall criticism of his drafting. It's something he constantly gets called out for which I don't agree with. The other factor I forgot to mention is that with a lot of things being made out to be "Brady vs. Belichick" there's so much focus on their WR drafting because that's seen as a direct talking point there. They did terribly there, but overall for 24 years he was an outstanding GM both draft and FA. I stand by that, even if it was time to move on.

I think bill had a great stretch in mid 2010s that led to the second stretch .

I heard that for the first stretch bill was already given superstars players by parcells and Brady happened . So giving bill credit for that is a bit dicey.

I feel he has been an okay GM. But recency bias probably tilts from positive to neutral. But we need to know bill had the GOAT QB and goat TE. So that masked quite a bit of whiffs especially the pattern on second round DBs - duke Dawson, Cyrus jones, joejuan and the other one whom I cannot recall .

 

[upstater1]

Depth Chart: New England Patriots Unofficial Depth Chart

Look, I'm a PSU fan, but when you're the 68th player picked in the NFL draft and you're 3rd on the depth chart at your position behind (*** checks notes ***) thin air, that can't be a good sign.

 

[1960Pats]

They didn't draft badly.

Look around the NFL and you'll see the average is 3 starters per draft.

2020: Onwenu, Dugger, Anfernee + Uche who is just a backup (this is the draft where they lost a 2nd for Mo Sanu)
2021: Barmore, Rhamondre (a failed draft because of a failed QB in Mac, which happens to a lot of teams...)
2022: Marcus Jones (Cole Strange is injured, Jack Jones was a headcase, Tyquan it's now or never). A failed draft for now, but not if Tyquan and Strange pan out.
2023: Gonzalez, Keion White, Sidy Sow, Demario Douglas (Jake Andrews and Marte Mapu could still pan out and become future starters). This draft was a success.

3 average drafts and 1 above average.

Good thing you started with 2020 because it was 2017-2019 where the team really failed in the draft. Only one player from 2017 and one form 2018 is with the team and none from 2019. That in a nutshell tells us why the cupboard became so bare that we can't field a pro offense yet.

Whatever happened in 2020 that changed our draft success worked. We came out with 4-3-4 players in those three drafts.

 

[upstater1]

Good thing you started with 2020 because it was 2017-2019 where the team really failed in the draft. Only one player from 2017 and one form 2018 is with the team and none from 2019. That in a nutshell tells us why the cupboard became so bare that we can't field a pro offense yet.

Whatever happened in 2020 that changed our draft success worked. We came out with 4-3-4 players in those three drafts.

I started there because people were mentioning the last several recent drafts.

2020 was the first year when the team started transitioning.

Before that we were giving picks away to bring in veterans to keep the Dynasty going, or losing picks to Deflategate nonsense.

Those were bad drafts.

But I'm not sure how relevant those drafts are to 2024-2025. IMO, people make way too much of those bad drafts as having a huge impact now. Consider,

Many of the players from those drafts (of all teams) are out of the league. 1/3rd of the entire 2nd round of 2018 is gone. And we always talk about the failed opportunities to draft WRs in 2019 when we took N'Keal Harry. But has anyone ever discussed the fact that only 2 of the 9 WRs taken in the first 2 rounds that year are still with their original teams?

AJ and Marquise Brown were traded. Marquise is now a journeyman. 5 WRs busted. This is why 5 years in the NFL creates such huge turnover.

 

[mgteich]

Depth Chart: New England Patriots Unofficial Depth Chart

Look, I'm a PSU fan, but when you're the 68th player picked in the NFL draft and you're 3rd on the depth chart at your position behind (*** checks notes ***) thin air, that can't be a good sign.

OK, Wallace may need a year to develop.

On the other hand, Robinson has been judged to be among the very best OL's drafted, based on pre-season play.
======
BTW, Wallace is nowhere near ready to be a LT. Our LT's are Love and Okorafor.

As far as RT, yes, Wallace is behind Onwenu and Okorafor. Thin air?

 

[mgteich]

It looks like we got 3 rookies who will start during this year. OK by me.

QB: a starter and a #3 (who beat out Zappe)
OL: a starter and a player who needs development
WR: a starter and a player that need to mature
DB/TE: two future prospects

 

[upstater1]

OK, Wallace may need a year to develop.

On the other hand, Robinson has been judged to be among the very best OL's drafted, based on pre-season play.
======
BTW, Wallace is nowhere near ready to be a LT. Our LT's are Love and Okorafor.

As far as RT, yes, Wallace is behind Onwenu and Okorafor. Thin air?

I was talking about the depth chart.

 

[1960Pats]

I started there because people were mentioning the last several recent drafts.

2020 was the first year when the team started transitioning.

Before that we were giving picks away to bring in veterans to keep the Dynasty going, or losing picks to Deflategate nonsense.

Those were bad drafts.

But I'm not sure how relevant those drafts are to 2024-2025. IMO, people make way too much of those bad drafts as having a huge impact now. Consider,

Many of the players from those drafts (of all teams) are out of the league. 1/3rd of the entire 2nd round of 2018 is gone. And we always talk about the failed opportunities to draft WRs in 2019 when we took N'Keal Harry. But has anyone ever discussed the fact that only 2 of the 9 WRs taken in the first 2 rounds that year are still with their original teams?

AJ and Marquise Brown were traded. Marquise is now a journeyman. 5 WRs busted. This is why 5 years in the NFL creates such huge turnover.

I went back just to check the results. It does look like something changed after 2019. They've drafted better since then.

 

[mgteich]

I was talking about the depth chart.

OK.
The strange depth chart has
LT: Okorafor 1st string, no 2nd, and Wallace 3rd string
RT: Onwenu, Lowe and Thomas
================
IMO, the depth chart should be
LT: Lowe, Okorafor (the key is that Lowe is a LT, at backup or starter)
RT: Onwenu, Wallace
OT: Thomas (who knows where, or if, the 5th OT will play) [I have hopes for Thomas, as we all do]

 

[upstater1]

I went back just to check the results. It does look like something changed after 2019. They've drafted better since then.

Probably the urge to not back and fill to sustain a Dynasty. That's what changed.

They were not in rebuilding mode in those days. Instead, they were trying to add guys at any position to top off a very old and veteran club.

I don't include the Harry pick in that description because they needed a WR (and they expended a lot of resources trying to find one, as they signed a ton of free agents, traded for Sanu, etc.)

Tackle also doesn't fall under that category because it was a position of need (Wynn, Cajuste) after Solder's departure.

I'm talking about all the CBs they took, the TEs, the DEs and RBs. I don't think they would have thrown so many darts at developmental guys if they had any true or real needs since all these positions had good and viable starters ahead of them. Instead of looking for viable players to sustain a rebuild, they swung for the fences and they missed.

Dalton Keene was not Aaron Hernandez... but that's who they drafted him to be. It was a reach.

 

[captain stone]

I went back just to check the results. It does look like something changed after 2019. They've drafted better since then.

Damning with faint praise much?

Because those drafts Sucked too.

 

[Toofy]

Probably the urge to not back and fill to sustain a Dynasty. That's what changed.

They were not in rebuilding mode in those days. Instead, they were trying to add guys at any position to top off a very old and veteran club.

I don't include the Harry pick in that description because they needed a WR (and they expended a lot of resources trying to find one, as they signed a ton of free agents, traded for Sanu, etc.)

Tackle also doesn't fall under that category because it was a position of need (Wynn, Cajuste) after Solder's departure.

I'm talking about all the CBs they took, the TEs, the DEs and RBs. I don't think they would have thrown so many darts at developmental guys if they had any true or real needs since all these positions had good and viable starters ahead of them. Instead of looking for viable players to sustain a rebuild, they swung for the fences and they missed.

Dalton Keene was not Aaron Hernandez... but that's who they drafted him to be. It was a reach.

2019 draft was rank bad....2022 comes close..

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think this draft class has exceeded my expectations this far. Robinson has surprised me. If Wallace develops, this class could be really good

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

They’ve played no games, but they drafted positions they needed and drafted them heavily.

Drafting is a crapshoot period. I’m excited to watch some guys develop, hopefully some more exciting football while the losses pile up.

Give us some hope for the future and draft for need again next season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Is the draft better than Christian Gonzalez, Demario Douglas, Sidy Sow and Keion White? I bet it won't be.

And Bryce Baringer.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I want him to make it as a pro. He's talented.

Not that talented. Lousy hands in college and Baker had frypans hands in camp and preseason as well. A guy that can't catch is not a NFL talented receiver.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think this year's draft is far too early to call success or failure, but it looks like it's going to have multiple contributors, so it will probably be average to good, unless Maye is a Dude. Then it's exceptional.

With the 3rd pick in every round, I think a lot of posters were hoping for a QB1 AND a LT1 or a WR1. That did not happen.