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The Bill Boyz are just as Bad as the Brady Boyz were

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This team looks bad and has been trending worse for the last 3-4 seasons, so I don’t see the point in trying to be on the right side of wrong.

I do feel that in another 2-3 seasons more of this forum will realize the Patriots demise was as much about being Post-Brady as it is being Post-Hands off Kraft.
 
Just tired of the negativity on this board. We went through years of the Tom crap when he left, and now Bill is gone, and I thought, woohoo finally we can move past that crap and get on to talking about football seriously. But now we have the Bill Ball washers who rip everythig the new regime does. Jesus cut the crap, it gets so old. Both are gone, I miss the years of both of them working together, but its time for everyone to get their heads out of their asses and start looking at this team.
Bill drove the organization into the ground culminating in a 4 win (or was it 3?) season after which no other team wanted him. The Bill bozos act like only under Mayo is the organization growing to crap when we have already been there.
 
Bill drove the organization into the ground culminating in a 4 win (or was it 3?) season after which no other team wanted him. The Bill bozos act like only under Mayo is the organization growing to crap when we have already been there.
There were reasons for hope and optimism going into last season and the first 3 weeks. This offseason, training camp, and preseason has been agonizing.
 
There were reasons for hope and optimism going into last season and the first 3 weeks. This offseason, training camp, and preseason has been agonizing.
I think the rookie class has looked pretty good why isn't that reason for hope and optimism?
 
I think the rookie class has looked pretty good why isn't that reason for hope and optimism?
Why isn't that reason for hope and optimism?
My Dude... it's not like you're new here. Can only assume you must have forgotten where you were for a moment.
 
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When can we expect Mac to take Trevor Lawrence’s job. You keep telling us how great Mac is… give us the over/under? We’d all like to make some money here on Draftkings?
Lawrences first year the Jaguars went 3-14. You don't see Jaguars fans saying all the teams problems were his fault. They put talent around him and the team improved.

For some reasons certain people on here are adverse to conceding how untalented this team has been and how the downward trajectory has a lot more to do with the faults of the team than the QB. Mac isn't blameless, but the Patriots have been trending down for the last 6 years outside of QB. The 2019 couldn't win a playoff game with Brady, the 2020 and 2021 teams were not even as good as that team. The 2022 and 2023 teams were an even bigger step down.

Patrick Mahomes would not make last seasons team a playoff team
 
There were reasons for hope and optimism going into last season and the first 3 weeks. This offseason, training camp, and preseason has been agonizing.
There really weren't. Aside from some people who were hyped up on copium last year, we lost more talent than we gained in the prior off season.

We lost Meyers who was our best WR, we lost Harris who was a solid RB that helped carry the load. Cannon retired. Wynn left (not that he was great, but he was better than what we replaced him with. Everyone knew we had offensive issues and in the draft we didn't go offense until pick 117. We lost our best WR and didn't snag one until 187.

Even in the first 3 weeks the only team we actually beat was the Jets and it's because Zach Wilson has won us damn near every game we played against him, then we lost to Trevor Sieman in the finale.

Objectively, there were glaring issues going into last season that we didn't address on offense and we were already pushing what even an above average defense could carry this team to
 
Criticism on the roster is fine. The funny thing is as recent as last year alot of them were in total denial when people would point out the concerning state of the roster and they would scapegoat Mac as the problem. Which yes he sucked ass but according to them you just get average qb play and its a winning team. Never wanted to admit the critical issues we had at OL, WR, as well as some secondary needs which was going to take at least 2 offseasons to fix for whoever was taking over.

But now that Bill is gone suddenly its okay to slam the roster and the front office every chance they get and act like this all happened overnight . Where were all these critical posts the last few years when the roster was getting to this point? Thats where you can easily see who’s giving the constructive criticism and who has an axe to grind.
I was super upset when Brady left and I didn't hold back my displeasure with "Blunder Bill" at the time. If I can move on then anyone can.
 
Nonsense!
Patrick Mahomes went 11-6 last years on a Chiefs team that was far more talented than this. Better offensive line, a better top pass catcher in Kelce, and a better defense.

That got them the 3 seed. It also gave them a tying record with the team that won the AFC East. So give him a significantly worse team and he's not even winning the AFC East and is fighting for the wildcard. The 5 and 6 seeds were 11-6 as well. So you 100% were fighting for that last wildcard spot.

That last wildcard seed was the 10-7 Steelers.

So you are effectively arguing that if you equalize QB play, the Patriots were only 1 game worse than the the Chiefs which were tied for the second best record in the AFC and ended up winning the SB. And even that would only put them in a tiebreaker scenario for the last seed and still have them potentially missing the playoffs.

That is not remotely realistic. Mahomes is great. Nobody is that great.
 
Lawrences first year the Jaguars went 3-14. You don't see Jaguars fans saying all the teams problems were his fault. They put talent around him and the team improved.

For some reasons certain people on here are adverse to conceding how untalented this team has been and how the downward trajectory has a lot more to do with the faults of the team than the QB. Mac isn't blameless, but the Patriots have been trending down for the last 6 years outside of QB. The 2019 couldn't win a playoff game with Brady, the 2020 and 2021 teams were not even as good as that team. The 2022 and 2023 teams were an even bigger step down.

Patrick Mahomes would not make last seasons team a playoff team
Because Lawrence wasn’t the problem. If they are losing games 6-0, 10-6, 10-7 then it would be comparable.
Not every bad team is bad primarily because of the QB but this one was.
I’m not talking about hypotheticals or trend or trajectory’s I’m talking about the actual football games this team played last year.
Can you honestly tell me they don’t beat Indy, Wash, giants, chargers and the last jets game with barely adequate QB play. I’m talking anything but pathetic QB play. That’s 9 wins right there and you can add the raider game to make it 10
I’m not talking about good Qb play, I’m saying anything not horrific.
Are you seriously saying you think the qb position is so irrelevant that if Mahomes was our qb on that day we don’t win those games? Come on, you can’t seriously say that.
 
Patrick Mahomes went 11-6 last years on a Chiefs team that was far more talented than this. Better offensive line, a better top pass catcher in Kelce, and a better defense.

That got them the 3 seed. It also gave them a tying record with the team that won the AFC East. So give him a significantly worse team and he's not even winning the AFC East and is fighting for the wildcard. The 5 and 6 seeds were 11-6 as well. So you 100% were fighting for that last wildcard spot.

That last wildcard seed was the 10-7 Steelers.

So you are effectively arguing that if you equalize QB play, the Patriots were only 1 game worse than the the Chiefs which were tied for the second best record in the AFC and ended up winning the SB. And even that would only put them in a tiebreaker scenario for the last seed and still have them potentially missing the playoffs.

That is not remotely realistic. Mahomes is great. Nobody is that great.
Amazing isn’t it. Imagine if they improved that team with 100 mill in fee agency and added a franchise qb. Hmmmm too bad we didn’t.
 
Lawrences first year the Jaguars went 3-14. You don't see Jaguars fans saying all the teams problems were his fault. They put talent around him and the team improved.

For some reasons certain people on here are adverse to conceding how untalented this team has been and how the downward trajectory has a lot more to do with the faults of the team than the QB. Mac isn't blameless, but the Patriots have been trending down for the last 6 years outside of QB. The 2019 couldn't win a playoff game with Brady, the 2020 and 2021 teams were not even as good as that team. The 2022 and 2023 teams were an even bigger step down.

Patrick Mahomes would not make last seasons team a playoff team
Lawrence’s first year his coach was Urban Meyer. His regime was considered one of the largest dumpster fires in the modern age. It wasn’t a matter of “putting talent around Lawrence” as much as changing the entire culture and improving execution.

“Talent” being the root cause of every football malady is lazy fan analysis. Some don’t understand football and treat it like a computer simulation run by automaton's instead of actual humans. A team can be hyper talented (Cowboys) but still execute poorly and lose. A team can have median talent (2023 Rams) and still win games.

Lawrence also improved, his sophomore season he attained a level of play Mac never approached and on a median level talented Jacksonville roster. He regressed in year three by turning it over too much, but they saw enough to pay him. He has been a good leader and teammate.

Mac was a terrible leader, he was a dirty player who whined, pointed fingers, sidled up to the owner to get his way. He would throw a terrible ball then demonstrably point at his receiver like it was their fault.

And let’s be very specific, the offense was on a downward trajectory. The defense remained its dominant self. So if BB lost the ability to talk or relate to younger players… it was strictly limited to his fragile insecure QB. His defensive players loved him.

Around 2020 Jonathan took over operations permanently and wanted his team back from the old coach. He wanted to switch to a more player friendly west coast offense, we saw that failed attempt in 2022. He obviously hired Wolf and some offensive coaches. Bill played along to get along, but once it started failing and the QB he never wanted showed he wasn’t “the guy” it all started to fall apart quickly.

The reason BB trotted Mac out there to start repeatedly last season despite failing spectacularly and getting benched four times was the owner/GM insistence that Mac play. It was a fck you move and brilliant, if they wanted Mac then he would shove Mac down their throats until they choked on him. It worked eventually, but too little too late. Bill made Mac a healthy scratch at the end of the season to rub salt in the wound.

Some Pat’s fans live under the illusion a paid employee has more power than the owner… it’s a farce. If you can’t admit in the discord of collaboration over the last three years then you’re being willfully ignorant because you resent Bill.

I root for the laundry… not a coach, not the owner, not the QB. The truth is the truth, whether it’s inconvenient for the agenda driven here is irrelevant. I was critical of BB the same way I’m critical of Mayo or Wolf. Every move is judged on its own merits. Some fans can’t recognize abject objectivity and accuse others of having a bias.

Mac sucked after week 13 of his rookie season with a very good roster around him…. that’s reality.
 
Yes I challenge views that do not align with mine. But I do not complain about posters. You are complaining about posters. There is a difference.

I like you more than you like me.
No I like you more LOL.. there it's settled.
 
Yeah, bare… which is why they re-signed every priority free agent they had. Why they returned the entire defense with the 4th lowest scoring percentage in the NFL. They had no talent… laughable.

You BB haters will milk this BS for years, a decade from now with this team being a cellar dweller you’ll still be telling us it’s Bill’s fault.

Not fixing the offensive line was a choice, they had all the resources in the world. If the line sucks their choices this off-season will be the reason why…not the ghost of BB.
Woozy the O line, the offense was all left bare. Re upped Parker, didn't sign D hop, signed juju.
Treaded for vaderian lowe, signed reiff, Terence Wheatley, gave Chris board a special team players 5 million guaranteed. Gave Trent Brown a raise. Personally I'm not busting bills balls I'm just calling it what it is.

Bill left a great defense but a pitiful offense.
 
Patrick Mahomes went 11-6 last years on a Chiefs team that was far more talented than this. Better offensive line, a better top pass catcher in Kelce, and a better defense.

That got them the 3 seed. It also gave them a tying record with the team that won the AFC East. So give him a significantly worse team and he's not even winning the AFC East and is fighting for the wildcard. The 5 and 6 seeds were 11-6 as well. So you 100% were fighting for that last wildcard spot.

That last wildcard seed was the 10-7 Steelers.

So you are effectively arguing that if you equalize QB play, the Patriots were only 1 game worse than the the Chiefs which were tied for the second best record in the AFC and ended up winning the SB. And even that would only put them in a tiebreaker scenario for the last seed and still have them potentially missing the playoffs.

That is not remotely realistic. Mahomes is great. Nobody is that great.
Mahomes maybe not but peak Brady absolutely
 
Mahomes maybe not but peak Brady absolutely
Our defense is better than KCs.. plus they lost alot of thier starting players to FA. Brady got better with age. He said himself if not for Guerrero he would have been done by 31. Most QBs do the opposite. Last season offense was KCs issue like ours has been. I've said personally I don't think mahaomes is playing into his late 30s I can see him playing probably by 35, 36 at the latest. Also is Reid going to be coaching at 75?
 
There really weren't. Aside from some people who were hyped up on copium last year, we lost more talent than we gained in the prior off season.

We lost Meyers who was our best WR, we lost Harris who was a solid RB that helped carry the load. Cannon retired. Wynn left (not that he was great, but he was better than what we replaced him with. Everyone knew we had offensive issues and in the draft we didn't go offense until pick 117. We lost our best WR and didn't snag one until 187.

Even in the first 3 weeks the only team we actually beat was the Jets and it's because Zach Wilson has won us damn near every game we played against him, then we lost to Trevor Sieman in the finale.

Objectively, there were glaring issues going into last season that we didn't address on offense and we were already pushing what even an above average defense could carry this team to
They did draft what looks like a good QB for the future, they have a lot of work to do the next two years still.
 
Our defense is better than KCs.. plus they lost alot of thier starting players to FA. Brady got better with age. He said himself if not for Guerrero he would have been done by 31. Most QBs do the opposite. Last season offense was KCs issue like ours has been. I've said personally I don't think mahaomes is playing into his late 30s I can see him playing probably by 35, 36 at the latest. Also is Reid going to be coaching at 75?
Obviously I'm sticking with my guy Brady but to make a case for Mahomes the key for him will be not losing a couple in the middle (though those will be part of tie breakers if needed).

If he manages the 3peat then he puts himself ahead of pace and if he doesn't go several before his next one he could creep up without having to play to mid 40s.

That's still obviously a lot that would have to happen and unless he even gets close there will never be a debate.

But to the point of this debate I think either would actually pretty much give any team in the league a chance at playoffs. They are both that good.
 
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