Mayo Made The Right Call, The Only Call - Brissett over Maye

[Thelonious]

I think that Mayo is a good coach in an impossible situation.

I like a positive thought as much as the next fella (I hope.) but, honestly, what evidence can you offer which suggests that Mayo "is a good [head] coach"? There isn't any. It's too early for there to be any. There is, alas, at least some evidence that he is a lousy communicator. But even in that area - an important one for a head coach - there is not adequate evidence yet to form a judgment. and there even might be some countervailing evidence in his sound handling of the Judon matter.

Optimism regarding Mayo seems to derive almost entirely from a perception that he is a "nice guy." I suppose he is, but so what? A twenty-year dynasty tells us that a pleasing manner is very much optional, probably irrelevant, regarding success as a head coach.

We have a "project" qb and a project HC. To this point, the qb has made good progress. The HC is still at the starting line, diddling around, mired in self-contradiction, soliciting advice from others who don't know any more than he does.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not the same OL. Without the benefit of foresight, it seems like it'd be responsible to see what we have before we throw another rook to the wolves.

In 2001, this franchise was in a far different place, as far as expectations and recent experience. Regardless of what happens during an offseason, there is now a much larger expectation that, at some point in the near future, this team should be contending. One could reasonably argue that we've also recently mishandled a first-round quarterback, so it doesn't stretch reason to exercise some caution.

I think expectations are always high, and I think 2001 and 2024 are similar.
I’m not understanding why shielding the franchise QB from adversity is a way to develop him.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that Mayo is a good coach in an impossible situation. He will be the the fall guy, but the real blame is elsewhere. And you are right, they will get rid of him in a way that gives plausible deniability. And after he is gone, anon leaks from the organization will smear him in the same way Judon was smeared.

It is too bad; if they just had made a few positive moves such as shoring up the line, the offense would be just good enough to complement the D and wind a few games.

The HC job is too big for the vast majority of good position coaches.
We won’t know if Mayo falls in that majority it is the exception until he does the job. The small amount of info we have so far isn’t exactly promising.

 

[JohnJH]

Strange when healthy is our quickest most athletic OL-man, and well suited to the offense we're now running. I'd expect him to take over LG when he returns. Long term if we re-sign him, he could be a candidate to play center when Andrews retires.

I hope that you're right.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I hope that you're right.

We are currently paying for the macho, stupid, obnoxious way injured players are forced to play and make their injury worse. IIRC, Strange was not allowed to fully recover before being put back in the lineup, thus making the injury worse and now we have a big hole in the line.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I like a positive thought as much as the next fella (I hope.) but, honestly, what evidence can you offer which suggests that Mayo "is a good [head] coach"? There isn't any. It's too early for there to be any.

I am basing it on his performance as the defensive coordinator (which was excellent), but you are right; we have no evidence how he will do as HC.

There is, alas, at least some evidence that he is a lousy communicator. But even in that area - an important one for a head coach - there is not adequate evidence yet to form a judgment. and there even might be some countervailing evidence in his sound handling of the Judon matter.

Jim Rome had a good point about Mayo; he has to learn to be as vague and boring as possible because the press corps is full of asshats that will pick apart every word, because it is a lot easier than doing actual work such as watching game tape. BB was the master at the boring answers; his pressers were worthless and I never watched them. BB was an extreme example; he hated the press and thought of them as idiots and treated them as such. Mayo will also learn to hate the press and keep his mouth shut. Rookie mistake.

Optimism regarding Mayo seems to derive almost entirely from a perception that he is a "nice guy." I suppose he is, but so what? A twenty-year dynasty tells us that a pleasing manner is very much optional, probably irrelevant, regarding success as a head coach.

True, nice guys finish last, except for Pete Carroll in Seattle.

We have a "project" qb and a project HC. To this point, the qb has made good progress. The HC is still at the starting line, diddling around, mired in self-contradiction, soliciting advice from others who don't know any more than he does.

Successful head coaches in the NFL are rare breed and fanatical about details and strategy. We will see if Mayo has that degree of fanaticism.

 

[Thelonious]

I am basing it on his performance as the defensive coordinator (which was excellent), but you are right; we have no evidence how he will do as HC.



Jim Rome had a good point about Mayo; he has to learn to be as vague and boring as possible because the press corps is full of asshats that will pick apart every word, because it is a lot easier than doing actual work such as watching game tape. BB was the master at the boring answers; his pressers were worthless and I never watched them. BB was an extreme example; he hated the press and thought of them as idiots and treated them as such. Mayo will also learn to hate the press and keep his mouth shut. Rookie mistake.


True, nice guys finish last, except for Pete Carroll in Seattle.




Successful head coaches in the NFL are rare breed and fanatical about details and strategy. We will see if Mayo has that degree of fanaticism.

Fair enough. It's a relief to find a poster with whom one can disagree with a little without finding yourself having to pee up a pole an hour later. Thanks.

 

[Froob]

I hated the signing I preferred Jimmy G as a possible bridge.

Jimmy is terrible and also suspended first two games lol

 

[Huckleberry1]

Drake Maye has done enough in the preseason to establish that he is the Future of the franchise.

With that said, Mayo made the right call, the only call he could have made - Starting Jacoby Brissett over Drake Maye.

Why? For a multitude reasons.

First, Mayo knows that the 2024 Patriots are not going to be competitive. We have seen how the team has struggled in the three preseason games. Invariably the same mistakes are being made week in week out. This team is just not ready. If there is an argument to be made for four preseason games, the 2024 Patriots are it. We could really have used the extra time to sort things out. Especially on the line.

The offensive line has really been offensive, no matter what iteration has been used. Way too many mental mistakes by way of penanties, way too many missed blocking assignments, and too much below average play, especially at the tackle position. Was it a surprise when two of the four waiver wire claims were tackles? If it was you haven't been paying attention, or were all to willing to look past the issues staring you right in the face. Playing behind such a line will hinder, not enhance, the development of Maye if he were to play from the get go. Just look at the history of the game. All too often QB's have been broken in year one by bad line play. You don't have to look too far back to see this.

Secondly, and I am not sure this has been addressed to an adequate degree - We really have no clue how well the offensive coaching staff is going to perform. AVP, our current OC, has held the title before, but has never called games before. You might get a week, two or maybe even three out of him before the NFL has what he likes to do, what his tendencies are in particular down and distance scenarios figured out. How is this team going to maneuver in situational football? How will they adapt to in game to counter the defenses? Learning situational football as the sole voice on the offense is going to be a learning curve for AVP - one I would rather have Brissett out there for - let him takes the lumps, not Maye.

There are a few who have argued that Maye losses out on much needed experience by not starting from the get go. Just because Maye is not starting game 1 does not mean he will not start this year. Losing 4, 5, 6 etc games at the beginning of his career is not going to adversely impact his development. Its foolish to think that it will. Especially if he is playing behind the line we know cannot provide adequate protection at this point. It may take weeks to get the line sorted out - something I think can happen. That's when you think about starting Maye - not before then though.

Mayo made the right, the only, decision. Its why he brought in Brissett. To get this team out of the gates while sorting out a suspect line and getting a really newb centric coaching staff up to game speed.

Agree with everything you said, and I would add that it’s a gutsy call by Mayo, as coaches live and die by their record, and they would certainly have a better shot at winning games this season with Maye on the field. I do think however that Wolf has assured him that his record with Brissett under center won’t cost him his job, although if the rest of the team plays poorly and underperforms that could put him on the hot seat. Ultimately you just can’t put a young QB on the field when your offensive line can’t even come close to functioning against a bad team’s second and third string players, which is what we all witnessed the other night. I have seen some bad performances by the OL during my years as a Patriots fan, but nothing comes close to what we saw against Washington. I don’t think high school teams get that many penalties, let alone a pro team. Hopefully they can get it squared away and Maye can play during the second half of the season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Jimmy is terrible and also suspended first two games lol

And he doesn’t know Van Pelt’s offensive system, even though he does have experience in a west coast offense.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

As bad as Mac was, Jacoby is costing us $5m more this year. Would we have been better off just keeping him as the sacrificial lamb for a few weeks?

There would be no way in hell I would’ve kept Mac as Drakes veteran mentor.

 

[maust]

I hated the signing I preferred Jimmy G as a possible bridge.

At least we know Jimmy wouldn't get injured in the first couple of games. So there's that

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

My guess is competition. They didn't want Zappe here thinking or agitating for a chance to become the starter.

Same reason BB got rid of Larry Whigham - to protect Tebucky Jones

You're probably right but it still doesn't make sense. Based upon what we've seen there wasn't any question that Brissett was getting the nod no matter what happened. Why couldn't we have just done the same with Zappe? He would not have had any reason to be agitated for the chance.

I suppose at the end of it who cares because the Pats wouldn't have spent the $$ saved on Brissett to improve the team anyway.

 

[Pape]

You're probably right but it still doesn't make sense. Based upon what we've seen there wasn't any question that Brissett was getting the nod no matter what happened. Why couldn't we have just done the same with Zappe? He would not have had any reason to be agitated for the chance.

I suppose at the end of it who cares because the Pats wouldn't have spent the $$ saved on Brissett to improve the team anyway.

another thing to consider - while its not very likely, suppose the west coast offense clicked with Zappe after a few games... then you got a full blown qb competition to worry about... as I said, not likely, but ya never know...

I would have kept him as an insurance policy, but thats just me...

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

My guess is competition. They didn't want Zappe here thinking or agitating for a chance to become the starter.

Same reason BB got rid of Larry Whigham - to protect Tebucky Jones

You're probably right but it still doesn't make sense. Based upon what we've seen there wasn't any question that Brissett was getting the nod no matter what happened. Why couldn't we have just done the same with Zappe? He would not have had any reason to be agitated for the chance.

I suppose at the end of it who cares because the Pats wouldn't have spent the $$ saved on Brissett to improve the team anyway.

 

[PScottman]

Does anyone else feel that the Patriots have decided to throw away the first few games?

 

[PScottman]

I agree Mayo's got at least 3 seasons. As does wolf and AVP.

That's Kraft's established timeline...it's what he gave Carroll and Grier and what he gave Belichick post-Brady. No reason to think it will change unless they go 0 for the next year and a half and the players all turn on Mayo or similar.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

I wish that the Patriots had reversed this; I wish that they traded down, gotten a stud LT and a deep threat WR. Then the following year get the QB and put him in situation where he has a chance. Instead this year is going to be painful for everyone, including Maye, literally.

Here's the thing I will never understand and no one seems to have an answer for.

If the Pats always knew the wanted Maye at 3 and there was zero question the Cards didn't want a QB, why didn't the Pats force Zona to trade into the #3 spot to ensure they got MHJ?

If I'm the Pats GM I'm telling the Cards GM, "I might take MHJ, he's a generational player. You can trade into the #3 spot to ensure I don't do that." If the Cards bite you still get Maye at 4 and have some extra draft capital. If they don't you either take Maye anyway or take MHJ while flashing both middle fingers in the air at Arizona and getting what most see as an immediate game changer. I saw no news suggesting this was even ever discussed.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Optimism regarding Mayo seems to derive almost entirely from a perception that he is a "nice guy." I suppose he is, but so what? A twenty-year dynasty tells us that a pleasing manner is very much optional, probably irrelevant, regarding success as a head coach.

When I try to convince myself he might work out, I usually consider his elite player traits (leadership, football mind, grit, etc.) and extrapolate from there. Because of his limited coaching experience, that's most of what one has to go on. But it's a huge leap in scope from elite player to HC, and the set of skills is not the same. Even the coordinator to HC jump is big and many have failed. In time, he may sort himself out and learn enough to excel. Good year to do it.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

another thing to consider - while its not very likely, suppose the west coast offense clicked with Zappe after a few games... then you got a full blown qb competition to worry about... as I said, not likely, but ya never know...

I would have kept him as an insurance policy, but thats just me...

If it clicks you let the vet play, and give Maye someone he might actually learn something from.