OT: Tua on Flores

[farn]

I killed both Belichick and Mac for Belichick not putting Mac in a position to succeed and Mac not having the stones to overcome it. So I will do the same for Flores and Tua. Tua didn't collapse anywhere near what Mac did last year, but he did not handle the pressure well. There are other QBs out there who would have overperformed to prove Flores wrong.

Word was Belichick treated Brady as poorly any other player and he overcame it. Granted it didn't seem to come until after Brady was already established.

I guess I am old school with QBs. They shouldn't have to be coddled like WRs. They should have nerves of steel and let next to nothing rattle them.

Tua is a loser. What happens in the postseason is what matters. To date, Tua has done nothing but lose.

Weird player. Self important and overrated.

 

[ahmed]

As expected, Flores takes the high road and - imo - makes Tua look like a baby.

I listened to the Tua interview. He seemed like a very confident, smart and decent young man.

Yes Flores took the high road but he was guilty as heck. Otherwise he would have pushed back even a little which he did not. Even his answers say as much.

He yanked Tua 3 or 4 times during his rookie season - nobody has ever done that and succeeded with that QB - ever. It was suicidal.

It is a very clear theme with every single Pats BB guy who became a HC that I can think of with the exception of Romeo.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Interesting discussion. I just finished reading Band of Brothers and the members of the company hated their hard ass captain who made their training hell, yet they credited him for toughening them up to endure what was to come. Granted, however, that he was replaced with a more humane leader who they all loved and respected before they went into battle and that new leader is the one who led them to greatness.

Excellent series. I will say this....there are absolutely ZERO snowflakes in that company.... =)

 

[farn]

I listened to the Tua interview. He seemed like a very confident, smart and decent young man.

Yes Flores took the high road but he was guilty as heck. Otherwise he would have pushed back even a little which he did not. Even his answers say as much.

He yanked Tua 3 or 4 times during his rookie season - nobody has ever done that and succeeded with that QB - ever. It was suicidal.

It is a very clear theme with every single Pats BB guy who became a HC that I can think of with the exception of Romeo.

He got yanked because he was inaccurate and made poor decisions. Tuna was thrust upon Flores and Flores knew he’d not amount to much.

I don’t want to be the regular season darling. Neither does Flores. He wants to win in the winter. That has yet to prove he can, despite being given some major weapons.

 

[ahmed]

He got yanked because he was inaccurate and made poor decisions. Tuna was thrust upon Flores and Flores knew he’d not amount to much.

I don’t want to be the regular season darling. Neither does Flores. He wants to win in the winter. That has yet to prove he can, despite being given some major weapons.

Tua has never had accuracy issues. In fact that is his biggest strength so no clue what you are talking about.

Tua's biggest problem was that he held onto the ball too long and tried to be too safe with his throws. In hindsight and given how fast he releases the ball now and how far he throws it, it is in large part due to confidence issues. Confidence issues that can be explained by your coach yanking you and ****ting on you repeatedly.

Yes the weapons help a lot but all good QBs have good weapons.

 

[ahmed]

Excellent series. I will say this....there are absolutely ZERO snowflakes in that company.... =)

In my experience, people who call others snowflake are ironically the ones that tend to complain and judge others...you know, the actual meaning of snowflake.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

In my experience, people who call others snowflake are ironically the ones that tend to complain and judge others...you know, the actual meaning of snowflake.

Interesting. To think the whole time I’ve been using it, it never had anything to do with being judgmental or complaining. Que sera…

 

[ahmed]

Interesting. To think the whole time I’ve been using it, it never had anything to do with being judgmental or complaining. Que sera…

People use snowflake for people who complain which in itself is also a complaint

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Vince Lombardi used to get on his players all the time and some hated him, until they started to win, and Vince knew when to give someone a compliment. HBO had a Vince special; it was really good to see how he operated. In the end, all the former players loved him and thought he made them better players. Maybe younger guys are different, I don't know.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I killed both Belichick and Mac for Belichick not putting Mac in a position to succeed and Mac not having the stones to overcome it. So I will do the same for Flores and Tua. Tua didn't collapse anywhere near what Mac did last year, but he did not handle the pressure well. There are other QBs out there who would have overperformed to prove Flores wrong.

Word was Belichick treated Brady as poorly any other player and he overcame it. Granted it didn't seem to come until after Brady was already established.

I guess I am old school with QBs. They shouldn't have to be coddled like WRs. They should have nerves of steel and let next to nothing rattle them.

No doubt BB was tough on all the players and used Brady to illustrate that no one deserved special treatment. I don't think that he treated anyone poorly in the big picture. There are too many anecdotes about taking the time to meet with Brady to have real conversations privately and listening to the captains to believe that BB actually treated people poorly as individuals.

 

[ahmed]

Vince Lombardi used to get on his players all the time and some hated him, until they started to win, and Vince knew when to give someone a compliment. HBO had a Vince special; it was really good to see how he operated. In the end, all the former players loved him and thought he made them better players. Maybe younger guys are different, I don't know.

Funny you mention him, saw an NFL doc on him and he said he regretted some things after like winning is not everything it is the only thing.

Even if something was ok at one point it does not mean it always will be. People and norms evolve. Ultimately winning cures all. Tua would have been OK if that approach resulted in winning which was Flores' sin.

 

[Love The Drake]

Funny you mention him, saw an NFL doc on him and he said he regretted some things after like winning is not everything it is the only thing.

Even if something was ok at one point it does not mean it always will be. People and norms evolve. Ultimately winning cures all. Tua would have been OK if that approach resulted in winning which was Flores' sin.

Didn’t they fire him with a winning record?
Weren’t they like 9 and 7?

 

[maust]

Didn’t they fire him with a winning record?
Weren’t they like 9 and 7?

With the merger Lombardi personally chose his DC Bengston to be his replacement so he could more fully 'concentrate' on his GM duties. he tired of that right quick and shot his way out of GB to get to Washington and a 5% ownership stake.

 

[Lavictoire]

I dont like Flores after throwing BB who had been good to him under the bus.

 

[Hawaiipatsfan2]

There’s a difference between criticism and ****ting on someone. Tia played and excelled undef Saban who’s known as a tough coach.

So did Mac jones. Not as impressive when you have multiple high first rounders to throw too, protecting you etc etc, against teams that have 1/5 at best of comparable NFL talent on their team, let alone defenses.

 

[Boomer B]

So did Mac jones. Not as impressive when you have multiple high first rounders to throw too, protecting you etc etc, against teams that have 1/5 at best of comparable NFL talent on their team, let alone defenses.

I never mentioned how good or bad Tua is. Has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

[Clonamery]

Funny you mention him, saw an NFL doc on him and he said he regretted some things after like winning is not everything it is the only thing.

Even if something was ok at one point it does not mean it always will be. People and norms evolve. Ultimately winning cures all. Tua would have been OK if that approach resulted in winning which was Flores' sin.

Ultimately personal responsibility becomes a thing. Doesn't feel like he learned a life lesson or anything or that he felt bad that he let his teammates down with his selfishness but it is growth.

Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa: 'I didn't actually know the playbook' well as a rookie

 

[Love The Drake]

With the merger Lombardi personally chose his DC Bengston to be his replacement so he could more fully 'concentrate' on his GM duties. he tired of that right quick and shot his way out of GB to get to Washington and a 5% ownership stake.

Thanks, but I was referring to the Dolphins firing Flores with a winning record.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Jerry Kramer said the thing about Lonbardi was when you thought you deserved praise, he kicked your ass.....when you thought you were going to get chewed out, he gave you a pat in the back

Lombardi and BB tempered the toughness with love/humor, they understood psychology

Parcells never got the other side, and thats why in most of his stops, his shelf life was short....players started to tune him out.....

The BB disciples seem to not understand how to temper the toughness, and they also lack the street cred to pull it off

 

[lancerman]

I mean regardless of anything else, optically this is going to hurt Flores more than Tua. Tua is now seen as a viable franchise QB and Flores is the guy who didn't recognize it and was actively blowing it. If you're an owner and Flores is up for your HC job, there's going to be a discussion where people say "wait a minute, the the Dolphins have been good and they look like they finally found their franchise QB and Flores was hellbent on making sure that didn't happen". Every team is going to wonder about whether Flores will be so far wrong on a QB evaluation that he'll let "the guy" slip through their fingers.