Patriots Rumor Patriots potentially trading for Aiyuk (Update - Patriots Out of the Running)

[borg]

But they had 100,000,000 dollars to address that 85% question mark. You are ok that they chose not to?

Explain this to me though. We had the worst offense in the NFL last year. We had $100,000,000 to fix it with.
What did we do?
Qb- signed a journeyman with an 18-30 record to a 1 year deal
Rb- downgraded rb2 from Elliot to Gibson, if you dispute downgrade it certainly wasn’t an upgrade.
WR- traded out Parker for Osborne. Insignificant change
TE - trade out Gesecki for hooper. Most likely a downgrade
OL traded out Brown for a RT who got benched.

That’s it’s. That’s what we did with 100,000,000 and people are saying there were no players, while also saying we sick so that why we didn’t add players.

Now let’s look at the defense. DL play Guy, no legit replacement now we lose Barmore.
Lb - swapped out Wilson (who played really well at the end of the thread for Takitaki)
S- swapped out mills and Phillips for a jag minimalist either way
Cb added no one.

Can you really read that and tell me there was any effort to improve the team with the 100,000,000 they had. Or let’s look at it a different way. They resigned a bunch of players so take that money away.
All of the players they signed were just swapping out a similar player.
So back to square 1 where they ended th me 4-13 season.

Then they had 43,000,000 to improve the roster and spent none of it.

How can anyone be good with that?

Have a go at the coaching staff.......

 

[203Pat]

But they had 100,000,000 dollars to address that 85% question mark. You are ok that they chose not to?

Explain this to me though. We had the worst offense in the NFL last year. We had $100,000,000 to fix it with.
What did we do?
Qb- signed a journeyman with an 18-30 record to a 1 year deal
Rb- downgraded rb2 from Elliot to Gibson, if you dispute downgrade it certainly wasn’t an upgrade.
WR- traded out Parker for Osborne. Insignificant change
TE - trade out Gesecki for hooper. Most likely a downgrade
OL traded out Brown for a RT who got benched.

That’s it’s. That’s what we did with 100,000,000 and people are saying there were no players, while also saying we sick so that why we didn’t add players.

Now let’s look at the defense. DL play Guy, no legit replacement now we lose Barmore.
Lb - swapped out Wilson (who played really well at the end of the thread for Takitaki)
S- swapped out mills and Phillips for a jag minimalist either way
Cb added no one.

Can you really read that and tell me there was any effort to improve the team with the 100,000,000 they had. Or let’s look at it a different way. They resigned a bunch of players so take that money away.
All of the players they signed were just swapping out a similar player.
So back to square 1 where they ended th me 4-13 season.

Then they had 43,000,000 to improve the roster and spent none of it.

How can anyone be good with that?

You either are being intellectually dishonest or you have no idea what you're watching.

They signed a journeyman QB to help mentor a rookie and start the first month or so if need be.

Gibson is an upgrade over Elliot. Gibson is younger, offers more in the passing game, and has significantly more burst. Zeke only got a little more than $1.5 million guaranteed while Gibson got about $3.5 million more guaranteed so the market also disagrees with you.

Once again, Osborn is also an upgrade. He is younger, faster, and outperformed Parker last year. Parker is also so washed he retired before camp. Osborn is no superstar but even he is an upgrade over the disastrous Devante Parker experiment.

Hooper and Gesicki are basically a wash.

Brown is a complete cancer and would be disastrous in a locker room with a rookie head coach and quarterback but I think this ties into you arguing in bad faith.

You're worried about losing Guy who as of right now is unemployed. Really a major loss to lose a guy they could sign tomorrow if they wanted. Also I don't know how you can't fault them for losing Barmore.

Mack Wilson who "played really well at the end" actually saw his defensive snaps (pretty similar for his special teams snaps as well) decrease every game from week 13 on. Takitaki on the other hand, started about half the games he played in last year on a playoff team. He may not be a superstar either but he is better than Mack Wilson.

Safety they re-signed two Bill guys and let two JAGs walk.

Corner they are going to roll with all guys Bill picked so I don't know what you're mad about there.

Never would I have thought I would be the homer in an argument with Andy but it looks like your "loyalty" stops and starts with who is on the sideline. Rome wasn't built in a day and they are trying to be aggressive but in the end of the day you can't force guys to sign here.

 

[XLIX]

True, but since he can't win alone... a pretty meaningless designation only harped on by QB fanboys.

So you agree with me that "QB is far and away the most important position in the game, period, end of discussion" but then you call that a meaningless designation.

 

[KCSVEN]

They have a qb who win a sb we gave a qb who us 18-30

What is the % of first round picks QB that win SBs? M
Did any do it while not caring enough about their roster to leave 43 mill of cap room unspent?

We are probably further away from winning a SB in terms of the roster and coaching staff that we have than almost if not every team in the NFL.

Last I checked Wilson does not own a time machine, he can't be 26 years old this season? Maybe he's better than Jacoby at this point, not clear. Jacoby is 13-18 last 31 starts, Wilson is 11-19 in his last 30.

I give you Steelers are currently better than the Pats but they have no chance of a SB this year
5 games into Maye's career, whenever that is, they will be worse than the Pats.
How many 1st round picks should have been 1st round picks?
As long as he stays healthy Maye WILL be a top 3 NFL QB in a few years, I am convinced of that. I spent 100's of hours to conclude that BEFORE the Pats drafted him. I would have traded three #1's to go up and get him.
People worried what if he busts and sets the Pats back years, I can't even contemplate that based on what I analyzed.

Since I'm coming from that point of view, you can see why I would think Pats are closer to a SB than many teams. Nothing is 100% of course but I go with the odds based on what I saw.

I think Patriots brass looked at this as a bridge year, spend the money in 2025 when whomever they draft is ready to play since they did not know during free agency which QB they would get.
Then they luck into the best QB and decide he should sit behind Jacoby for a while (dumb). He's going to take lumps the first 4 games, I'd rather get them out of the way but now they probably realize they got the QB and should have spent this year.

 

[Wozzy]

So you agree with me that "QB is far and away the most important position in the game, period, end of discussion" but then you call that a meaningless designation.

Yeah, but where it becomes fan fiction is where you tell us how the difference between one great QB and another great QB is the difference between 6 rings to one. The difference was the team around the QB.

Burrow lost in the postseason and Mahomes brought home the prize because his team was better... not magical pixie dust.

The difference between teams is a Grand Canyon sized gap, difference between two great QB's infinitesimal.

 

[XLIX]

Yeah, but where it becomes fan fiction is where you tell us how the difference between one great QB and another great QB is the difference between 6 rings to one. The difference was the team around the QB.

Burrow lost in the postseason and Mahomes brought home the prize because his team was better... not magical pixie dust.

The difference between teams is a Grand Canyon sized gap, difference between two great QB's infinitesimal.

If you think the difference between Mahomes and Burrows is "infinitesimal" then you are a complete moron.

Career averages:

Mahomes: 4,690 yards, 36.5 TD's, 10.5 INT's
Burrow: 3,520 yards, 24.25 TD's, 9.25 INT's

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Reid made the playoffs 13 times without Mahomes. Had 12 double digit win seasons without Mahomes. Had 11 playoff wins without Mahomes. Made 4 AFFCG's and a Super Bowl without Mahomes. Reid was a top end coach who was respected across the league and always considered one of the best coaches in the NFL before Mahomes got there. Mahomes was what got him over the hump so he would start winning the big game.

Yes Mahomes changed his trajectory from top end in the current era to a guy pushing for all time status. But we probably shouldn't pretend that he already wasn't starting on 3rd base before Mahomes got there.

Reid’s a HoF coach who for the most part has had good to elite level qbs in Smith, McNabb, Vick and Mahomes.

The only time I’ve seen him with below average qb play was with Kolb and it reflected in Phillys record.

 

[sb1]

 

[Ring 6]

Have a go at the coaching staff.......

I’d rather not. It wouldn’t be pretty.

 

[KCSVEN]

Burrow lost in the postseason and Mahomes brought home the prize because his team was better... not magical pixie dust.

Burrows supporting cast carried him. He had great defenses and all-pro receivers.
The guys is not good in the playoffs, he has more 4th quarter interceptions than TD drives, he has ZERO 4th quarter playoff TD passes. His EPA in playoffs is not good. Mahomes replaces Burrow, Mahomes wins.
Bengals defense carried Burrow twice. In 2023 they stopped a goal line stand and at the same time caused a fumble for a 98 yd td return that won them the game vs Ravens and Tyler Huntley. In 22 they picked Mahomes twice, including 1 in overtime to set up the win plus sacked him 4 times and held Chiefs to 3 points in the second half despite a pick by Burrow at midfield in the 4th quarter.

Mahomes is better than Burrow, that is why.

 

[Fuzz]

If you think the difference between Mahomes and Burrows is "infinitesimal" then you are a complete moron.

Career averages:

Mahomes: 4,690 yards, 36.5 TD's, 10.5 INT's
Burrow: 3,520 yards, 24.25 TD's, 9.25 INT's

I agree that there is a large gap between Mahomes and the second best QB, but that comparison isn't fair. You cant compare full season stats for Mahomes vs half season stats for Burrow in the 2 years he was injured. If you want to do that kind of analysis, you need to compare at a game level. Here it is:

Mahomes: 296.1 yards, 2.28 TD's, 0.65 INT's
Burrow: 270.8 yards, 1.87 TD's, 0.71 INT's

 

[Ring 6]

Last I checked Wilson does not own a time machine, he can't be 26 years old this season? Maybe he's better than Jacoby at this point, not clear. Jacoby is 13-18 last 31 starts, Wilson is 11-19 in his last 30.

I give you Steelers are currently better than the Pats but they have no chance of a SB this year
5 games into Maye's career, whenever that is, they will be worse than the Pats.
How many 1st round picks should have been 1st round picks?
As long as he stays healthy Maye WILL be a top 3 NFL QB in a few years, I am convinced of that. I spent 100's of hours to conclude that BEFORE the Pats drafted him. I would have traded three #1's to go up and get him.
People worried what if he busts and sets the Pats back years, I can't even contemplate that based on what I analyzed.

Since I'm coming from that point of view, you can see why I would think Pats are closer to a SB than many teams. Nothing is 100% of course but I go with the odds based on what I saw.

I think Patriots brass looked at this as a bridge year, spend the money in 2025 when whomever they draft is ready to play since they did not know during free agency which QB they would get.
Then they luck into the best QB and decide he should sit behind Jacoby for a while (dumb). He's going to take lumps the first 4 games, I'd rather get them out of the way but now they probably realize they got the QB and should have spent this year.

I surely hope you are right, but other than that hope that the guy must people felt was third best in the draft becomes 3rd best in the league, what else is there for optimism at this point. A 4 win team that didn’t improve in any real way says even if he’s that good he has to carry a bad team.

 

[Wozzy]

If you think the difference between Mahomes and Burrows is "infinitesimal" then you are a complete moron.

Career averages:

Mahomes: 4,690 yards, 36.5 TD's, 10.5 INT's
Burrow: 3,520 yards, 24.25 TD's, 9.25 INT's

It's a team sport, since you can't understand that... I have to assume you're a fanboy moron.

 

[Wozzy]

Burrows supporting cast carried him. He had great defenses and all-pro receivers.
The guys is not good in the playoffs, he has more 4th quarter interceptions than TD drives, he has ZERO 4th quarter playoff TD passes. His EPA in playoffs is not good. Mahomes replaces Burrow, Mahomes wins.
Bengals defense carried Burrow twice. In 2023 they stopped a goal line stand and at the same time caused a fumble for a 98 yd td return that won them the game vs Ravens and Tyler Huntley. In 22 they picked Mahomes twice, including 1 in overtime to set up the win plus sacked him 4 times and held Chiefs to 3 points in the second half despite a pick by Burrow at midfield in the 4th quarter.

Mahomes is better than Burrow, that is why.

Burrows had one of the worst O-Lines in the league, has suffered two season ending injuries, led the entire NFL in sacks and got sacked 7 and 5 times in both postseason losses.

Mahomes has the most expensive offensive line in the NFL.

This is the reality...

 

[Wozzy]

I agree that there is a large gap between Mahomes and the second best QB, but that comparison isn't fair. You cant compare full season stats for Mahomes vs half season stats for Burrow in the 2 years he was injured. If you want to do that kind of analysis, you need to compare at a game level. Here it is:

Mahomes: 296.1 yards, 2.28 TD's, 0.65 INT's
Burrow: 270.8 yards, 1.87 TD's, 0.71 INT's

But that's the foolishness we're dealing with...

Burrow has gotten slaughtered behind a terrible offensive line and Mahomes has one of the league's best. The fanboys then attribute that to Mahome's magical powers and something inherently wrong with Burrows.

They don't understand football is the diagnosis...

 

[Ring 6]

You either are being intellectually dishonest or you have no idea what you're watching.

They signed a journeyman QB to help mentor a rookie and start the first month or so if need be.

Gibson is an upgrade over Elliot. Gibson is younger, offers more in the passing game, and has significantly more burst. Zeke only got a little more than $1.5 million guaranteed while Gibson got about $3.5 million more guaranteed so the market also disagrees with you.

Once again, Osborn is also an upgrade. He is younger, faster, and outperformed Parker last year. Parker is also so washed he retired before camp. Osborn is no superstar but even he is an upgrade over the disastrous Devante Parker experiment.

Hooper and Gesicki are basically a wash.

Brown is a complete cancer and would be disastrous in a locker room with a rookie head coach and quarterback but I think this ties into you arguing in bad faith.

You're worried about losing Guy who as of right now is unemployed. Really a major loss to lose a guy they could sign tomorrow if they wanted. Also I don't know how you can't fault them for losing Barmore.

Mack Wilson who "played really well at the end" actually saw his defensive snaps (pretty similar for his special teams snaps as well) decrease every game from week 13 on. Takitaki on the other hand, started about half the games he played in last year on a playoff team. He may not be a superstar either but he is better than Mack Wilson.

Safety they re-signed two Bill guys and let two JAGs walk.

Corner they are going to roll with all guys Bill picked so I don't know what you're mad about there.

Never would I have thought I would be the homer in an argument with Andy but it looks like your "loyalty" stops and starts with who is on the sideline. Rome wasn't built in a day and they are trying to be aggressive but in the end of the day you can't force guys to sign here.

So let’s take your analysis. They made minor improvement at best at backup rb and backup wr.
They are down DTs
They swapped a jag lb for another.

So we agree with 100,000,000 they did nothing significant to improve.
I’m shocked that anyone can be pleased with that and content that Kraft just chose to not use 43,000,000 to improve his team.

 

[gobesmug]

It's a team sport, since you can't understand that... I have to assume you're a fanboy moron.

Yes but you constantly state that the Chiefs don't have any WRs, while Burrows has been playing with a HOF quality WR and another 1 WR.

So with better weapons Burrows should have the superior stats, but he doesnt.

 

[Ring 6]

Just because I have money in my wallet when I go to the store doesn't mean I'm going to spend all of it if I'm not thrilled with the selection. I'll keep it for down the road when I need something else or there's a better sale.

To your points:
QB - they signed a guy who has thus far been a good mentor for their future guy and has had a good camp. They were going younger and he's here on a one-year deal.
RB - they went younger. I get it. Liked Elliot, but Gibson is 26 and he's here to complement Rhamondre.
WR - Osborn already looks like he'll be more productive than Parker and I'm pleased with the two young wideouts, along with Boutte, who has also been a surprise.
TE - Gesicki for Hooper may end up being a wash, but who knows.
OL - I don't know if he got benched. That position remains in flux. And the free agent tackle that was available was an often hurt guy who is already injured. Not sorry they didn't spend money there.

On defense, that's a wait and see. Albeit Barmore's situation doesn't help things and Guy remains a free agent, and his name has come up on podcasts as of late, although I don't know if he'd want to come back and get beat up on short money at this point.

Again, nobody's necessarily "good" with that, but that's where we're at.

If your family is starving when you go to the store you have to buy food whether it’s your favorite or not.

So look that over. Starting from we suck, but have 100,000,000 to get better with we swapped out backup RB and backup WR and regardless of how you feel about the players it’s a bet insignificant change.
I’m not sure why defense is a wait and see, we know the moves they make and it’s certainly a net step back, especially with Barmore injury (again we had millions to add players with so that injury could be less of a hindrance. If you add no one you can’t handle attrition)

Again, when last season ended and we said **** that was awful but at least we have 100,000,000 to fix it with did you ever imagine we’d basically stand pat?

 

[Wozzy]

Yes but you constantly state that the Chiefs don't have any WRs, while Burrows has been playing with a HOF quality WR and another 1 WR.

So with better weapons Burrows should have the superior stats, but he doesnt.

I didn’t say the Chiefs had “no WR’s,” I said they haven’t had a #1 since they traded Tyreek because they haven’t. It doesn’t mean their WR’s stink.

Juju, Rashee Rice… these guys are good WR’s, but they’re solid possession receivers and nothing more. Bourne, Juju… we have those type guys.

Burrows has a substantially worse line, near league worst. You don’t understand.

Put the KC offensive line on Cinci and Burrow has two rings on his hand, give him Andy Reid and he’s that much better. Team game.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yes. It's an odd set up that a coach would have so much power. But I did read that shanny runs the 53 and Lynch runs the 90.. same with Mayo he runs the 53 and Wolf has final say on the roster.

I find it very odd that a coach would have so much say over a GM... just weird in today's NFL.

Andy Reid has the final say in KC. He brought Veach over from Philly when KC hired Reid. Veach was promoted to GM after Mahomes was drafted which was a Veach guy.

BB brought Pioli over from the Jets.

McDermott brought Brandon Beane over from Carolina.

The common theme here is that while there is a "GM" or a guy in charge of "player personnel", they will not undermine the HC. This setup is rare.