Pats WR's ... What is a #1 WR?

[Fuzz]

Cooper Kupp Rams.

Kupp is a slot receiver. He has the ability to do more, but he is used primarily out of the slot.

 

[PatsFan2]

Kupp is a slot receiver. He has the ability to do more, but he is used primarily out of the slot.

You don't think he's a True #1 after that 21 season??

 

[Pape]

A defense has a harder time defending a great team than a single great receiver.

Christian Gonzalez negated Tyreek Hill last year. Gilmore used to shutdown #1 WR’s on the regular.

The NFL only has one Tyreek, one Gronk… it’s not like there’s a bunch of these guys in every draft class to be had.

quality over quantity ...

it would be nice to get a wr that can top 1000 yards though... that alone would make everyone else's job easier... all too often over the last couple years teams have been able to crowd the box / line because we have had no real threats emerge from the wr corps...

If Polk or even Baker pans out as a real threat, combined with Douglas and Bourne, we might have something to work with... not a record shattering 23 passing td's to one guy great, more more serviceable than what we have been experiencing

 

[Fuzz]

You don't think he's a True #1 after that 21 season??

73.6% of his receiving yards that season came out of the slot. He's an amazing player no doubt, but he's not what people typically refer to as a #1 receiver. Those receivers typically line up outside. Think Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Stefon Diggs, Ja'Marr Chase, A.J. Brown, DK Metcalf, Keenan Allen, CeeDee Lamb, Amari Cooper.

Stats show Cooper Kupp is dominating out of the slot

Cooper Kupp has been one of the most consistent players on the Los Angeles Rams this season. The former third-round pick leads the NFL in receptions (85), receiving yards (1,141), and receiving touchdowns (10), putting him in rare air among the all-time…

theramswire.usatoday.com

 

[PatsFan2]

73.6% of his receiving yards that season came out of the slot. He's an amazing player no doubt, but he's not what people typically refer to as a #1 receiver. Those receivers typically line up outside. Think Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Stefon Diggs, Ja'Marr Chase, A.J. Brown, DK Metcalf, Keenan Allen, CeeDee Lamb, Amari Cooper.

Stats show Cooper Kupp is dominating out of the slot

Cooper Kupp has been one of the most consistent players on the Los Angeles Rams this season. The former third-round pick leads the NFL in receptions (85), receiving yards (1,141), and receiving touchdowns (10), putting him in rare air among the all-time…

theramswire.usatoday.com

You love the last word don't you??

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We still need our wr1 but this wr room is definitely upgraded from last year. Our offense was pretty bad from the start but I didn’t think it became alarming bad until bourne went down and we had next to nothing at wr (plus mac breaking). This year we actually have options besides demario douglas and a better qb, it should look alot better.

To me a #1 is a guy you can depend on in the clutch as a ‘go to’ option or take over a game. This is much needed eventually if we are going to contend, I don’t see this guy on the roster yet.

 

[Pape]

We haven’t had a true #1 (X type) since Randy Moss 14 years ago. One of the biggest misconceptions arising from the rise of fantasy football is that you need one to win football games. On the contrary, history shows that it may even hurt the team by making them too one dimensional. In the past 15 seasons, only 2 Superbowl champions have had a clear cut true #1 - Denver in 2015 with Demaryius Thomas, and Kansas City in 2019 with Tyreek Hill.

Mike Evans in Tampa? Marquis Colston in New Orleans? Greg Jennings in Green Bay? Victor Cruz in NY G?

there's been more than a few teams with a 1 that have won the super bowl than just two teams


overall it certainly would hurt us to have a better quality WR running routes at the razor...

 

[Wozzy]

quality over quantity ...

it would be nice to get a wr that can top 1000 yards though... that alone would make everyone else's job easier... all too often over the last couple years teams have been able to crowd the box / line because we have had no real threats emerge from the wr corps...

If Polk or even Baker pans out as a real threat, combined with Douglas and Bourne, we might have something to work with... not a record shattering 23 passing td's to one guy great, more more serviceable than what we have been experiencing

Sure, but "over 1000 yards" is often a matter of opportunity and the offense around them as much as skill. Juju (1426 yards), Devante Parker (1202)... these guys put up #1 type numbers one season... pretty sure it didn't make them a #1 WR.

The same way I knock Aiyuk, it's not that I don't think he's a good player because he is, he's just not the sole reason he's posting 1000+ yards the last two years. Part of his success comes from his role, the scheme, his coordinator being one of the best play callers in the league and most importantly the team around him.

Aiyuk is a younger version of Juju... would you trade a first for 22 year old Juju and pay him 30 million dollars knowing what you do about him now? Put Aiyuk on the Steelers last season and he'd have the same results that Diontae Johnson had... good but nothing amazing, overshadowed by George Pickens. Production is often a matter of opportunity, targets, quality of targets, blocking that allows deep passes to develop... hell, if the QB likes you. Receivers don't produce in a vacuum.

If all the elements for success exist on the 2024 Patriots... Douglas, Polk or Baker or Thornton could be a #1 WR... whatever that is.

 

[Pape]

We still need our wr1 but this wr room is definitely upgraded from last year. Our offense was pretty bad from the start but I didn’t think it became alarming bad until bourne went down and we had next to nothing at wr (plus mac breaking). This year we actually have options besides demario douglas and a better qb, it should look alot better.

To me a #1 is a guy you can depend on in the clutch as a ‘go to’ option or take over a game. This is much needed eventually if we are going to contend, I don’t see this guy on the roster yet.

this is kinda how I look at it... the 1 being more of a primary receiver instead of a true X, just because 1) we've sucked at drafting wr's for decades now and 2) it acknowledges just how important guys like Jules were to the team

 

[Pape]

Sure, but "over 1000 yards" is often a matter of opportunity and the offense around them as much as skill. Juju (1426 yards), Devante Parker (1202)... these guys put up #1 type numbers one season... pretty sure it didn't make them a #1 WR.

The same way I knock Aiyuk, it's not that I don't think he's a good player because he is, he's just not the sole reason he's posting 1000+ yards the last two years. Part of his success comes from his role, the scheme, his coordinator being one of the best play callers in the league and most importantly the team around him.

Aiyuk is a younger version of Juju... would you trade a first for Juju and pay him 30 million dollars knowing what you do about him now? Put Aiyuk on the Steelers last season and he'd have the same results that Diontae Johnson had... good but nothing amazing, overshadowed by George Pickens. Production is often a matter of opportunity, targets, quality of targets, blocking that allows deep passes to develop... hell, if the QB likes you. Receivers don't produce in a vacuum.

absolutely an arbitrary number, the 1000 yards... in fact it means even less than it did a few years ago because of the 17th game... but it would be a sign that the player in question would most likely draw attention, and basically stop opposing defenses from crowding the line...

 

[Fuzz]

Mike Evans in Tampa? Marquis Colston in New Orleans? Greg Jennings in Green Bay? Victor Cruz in NY G?

there's been more than a few teams with a 1 that have won the super bowl than just two teams


overall it certainly would hurt us to have a better quality WR running routes at the razor...

All are slot receivers, apart from Evans. I was debating adding Evans to the list, but decided against it because he was part of a duo with Godwin. He also just barely cracked a thousand yards that season. In my mind, a #1 is the clear cut top receiver on the team.

 

[PatsFan2]

We still need our wr1 but this wr room is definitely upgraded from last year. Our offense was pretty bad from the start but I didn’t think it became alarming bad until bourne went down and we had next to nothing at wr (plus mac breaking). This year we actually have options besides demario douglas and a better qb, it should look alot better.

To me a #1 is a guy you can depend on in the clutch as a ‘go to’ option or take over a game. This is much needed eventually if we are going to contend, I don’t see this guy on the roster yet.

A clue a clue a clue Tyquan I have changed my tune on him.

 

[Wozzy]

absolutely an arbitrary number, the 1000 yards... in fact it means even less than it did a few years ago because of the 17th game... but it would be a sign that the player in question would most likely draw attention away from opposing defenses crowding the line...

I like team stats.

I want the offense to be great at scoring first and foremost, creating first downs, converting third downs, great in the red zone, able to run the ball with power... and be good at these things, even against the best playoff caliber defenses. This starts with great line play.

The Dynasty offenses were great because they could not be stopped on third down, that was great blocking, great QB play and receivers like Troy, Welker or Edelman that couldn't be covered in short space. It didn't matter that these guys were 7th round draft picks or UDFA's, they had supreme agility and quickness.

When they weren't passing for third downs, they were running it down opponent's throats and forcing them to defend both run and pass. They were unpredictable. They also used the first two downs to make third downs manageable. How many times the past two years did we watch 3rd and 15 plays fail? Those dynasty teams were converting third and shorts, Tom became a master of converting third and inches... he was unstoppable.

Big plays are nice, but you can't rely on them. You can't hit a homer on every at bat... become a singles and double hitter. Our defense should be good enough to win games like that, it's a tried and true formula for success.

 

[Huckleberry1]

In the Rookies Report For Training Camp thread, saw this little exchange ... Think it really merits its own thread...





So whats a #1... How is a #1 defined? Basically, to me, in the most commonsense tyle answer, its the teams most talented guy... The protoypical 1 would be the X receiver, the best pass catcher on the field, the guy split to the outside... am I wrong? Is there a better definition?

If not the X because you just have a speed guy on the outside, maybe the 1 is in the Z spot, (or flanker for the football historians), just based on the players intangibles... lines up on the outside, off the line of scrimmage... Usually good hands, has some speed, can make quick cuts, runs good routes...

Outside of that, with the lack of a true Split End, I would define the 1, or in relation to this roster, our 1 should be defined as the best guy on the field, even if they aren't a true X... If fully recovered, it has to be Bourne, though I think he might struggle this year a bit, just based on the observations that it "takes a year"...

So, do we have one? Who is it?

Thats what we will find out in camp this year... Polk certainly has the speed... but then again, so does Thornton... at 6-1, 203 pounds, Polk is a bit more solid than Thornton, and is likely to be better just because he can use that body/size to his advantage much more effectively than Thornton... tbh i am of the belief that Thornton is on the bubble, and most likely will not make the 53 man roster this year...

To me it’s a dominant All Pro caliber receiver, one that opposing defenses feel they have to stop to win. Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson type players. And while you don’t have to be a sure fire HOF player to be a #1, many are . Guys like Jefferson and Lamb fill that prototype right now. I don’t believe you are a #1because you are the best receiver of a bad unit. Douglas is a decent slot receiver, but he’d not a #1WR in my opinion.

 

[Thelonious]

I believe I may once upon at time have known what a "#1 WR" is, but it has been so long since we have had one that I am left with only the vaguest of recollections. I believe it involves getting open and catching the ball, but that is just a guess.

 

[borg]

Answer: "Tough to define but you know it when you see it"

Sidenote:
In 2007, I attended (5th row behind uprights) the Pats at Dolphins regular season game. Final score 49-28.
Moss went off in this game (as did the entire offense) with Brady launching multiple bombs in his direction (and mine), and despite being blanketed by 3, 4, and even five defenders, Moss high pointed, out positioned, and absolutely dominated.
Man vs boys
El Supremo #1 WR on that day and most every game during his golden years.

 

[TheRainMaker]

#1 WR is what others said - a player that the passing games runs through, is capable of putting up big stats and DC’s will have to find a way to slow down.

Aside from Edelman who converted to WR, the Pats have not drafted a “WR” who eclipsed 1,000 yards since Terry Glenn in 1996. It would be hard to believe that Baker or Polk flame out like the others.

 

[Sect140]

I think the notion of a #1 defense is mostly garbage. There’s maybe 3 or 4 weapons in the league that keep D coordinators up at night or they roll coverages too. Otherwise most coordinators can shut down one great receiver with one great CB or by rolling coverage in his direction… and once that happens your ability to score is dependent on your other receivers ability to win.

In short, a group of good receivers is better than one overpaid superweapon and a bunch of jags. “Weapons” are aptly named because they’re tools, and there is a tool for every job.

David Patten stretched the field and provided a deep threat which opened up underneath routes.

David Givens was a big strong physical presence who could win on the outside.

Troy Brown was the ultra quick slot receiver who could win in a phone booth and take advantage of the middle of the field.

Kevin Faulk was a quick shifty RB who could catch like a WR and makes plays out of the backfield and on outlet passes.

None of these guys was some ridiculously talented superweapon, they all had a role and attacked an area of the field which allowed the others to do the same. The QB threw to the open man, made the opponent defend every blade of grass. It’s a team game.

The overriding need for a superweapon is a myth. The Chiefs haven’t had one the last two years and won rings. Meanwhile Tyreek Hill who is the best weapon and receiver in the entire league… he’s been bounced in the wildcard round the last two years.

I will take a team without a so called #1 receiver and has a group of solid receivers where each player has a strength, like your example above. I sure did like the group of receivers we had in 03 and 04, I was bummed when we didn’t resign Branch or Givens, I know they didn’t do much elsewhere but they were perfect fits here. I remember watching 60 minutes one night and one of the segments was on Brady and Branch’s chemistry on the field.

 

[Pape]

To me it’s a dominant All Pro caliber receiver, one that opposing defenses feel they have to stop to win. Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson type players. And while you don’t have to be a sure fire HOF player to be a #1, many are . Guys like Jefferson and Lamb fill that prototype right now. I don’t believe you are a #1because you are the best receiver of a bad unit. Douglas is a decent slot receiver, but he’d not a #1WR in my opinion.

so basically you are looking for the protoypical X to be a 1... interesting... certainly lends credence to how the position is looked at league wide...

 

[Pape]

I like team stats.

I want the offense to be great at scoring first and foremost, creating first downs, converting third downs, great in the red zone, able to run the ball with power... and be good at these things, even against the best playoff caliber defenses. This starts with great line play.

The Dynasty offenses were great because they could not be stopped on third down, that was great blocking, great QB play and receivers like Troy, Welker or Edelman that couldn't be covered in short space. It didn't matter that these guys were 7th round draft picks or UDFA's, they had supreme agility and quickness.

When they weren't passing for third downs, they were running it down opponent's throats and forcing them to defend both run and pass. They were unpredictable. They also used the first two downs to make third downs manageable. How many times the past two years did we watch 3rd and 15 plays fail? Those dynasty teams were converting third and shorts, Tom became a master of converting third and inches... he was unstoppable.

Big plays are nice, but you can't rely on them. You can't hit a homer on every at bat... become a singles and double hitter. Our defense should be good enough to win games like that, it's a tried and true formula for success.

agreed... John Henry* Football... recipe for success... that type of team will beat most others 9/10 on any given sunday

and was there really anything better than James White on third down... *shivers* just thinking about it...


* not the red sox john henry, but the cool ass folklore hero, the steel drivin' man