Best Coach of All Time?

[1960Pats]

For me, playoff win percentage is the equalizer. Vince.

As much of an impact as Belichick has had on the game Lombardi had more.

 

[1960Pats]

In all Sports
1A Red Auerbach
1B John Wooden

In Football
Vince Lombardi

Red was a double whammy for the rest of the league. He was miles ahead as a coach and a GM. Imagine getting Robert Parish and Kevin McHale for Joe Barry Carroll and Bird as a junior eligible. And how the heck did he keep getting #1 picks even when the team was winning. If not for the tragic losses of Reggie Lewis and Len Bias the C's would be way ahead of the Lakers now.

 

[signbabybrady]

I use to say BB. but it has become clear to me more and more that it was mostly due to Brady allowing BB to spend so much on D while still producing and sometimes even winning with offensive comebacks. And the history of BB post and pre Brady is pretty damning unfortunately. Of course every coach needs QBs to win but it shouldn't have looked as bad as it did and he shouldn't have lost the locker room and pulse on the team like he did. Brady just allow so many of BB's ego problems which would otherwise sink him to be swept under the rug cause he commanded so much respect and was such a good leader. BB is still a top coach of all time, but not the GOAT IMO.

I might say neither and put in Bill Walsh.

Do you have any facts to confirm your statement? Where is the evidence that he spent more on D than on our O or that he spent more on D than other teams typically do?

Highest earning NFL players of all time 2025| Statista

Which NFL player has the highest career earnings? Five other players, all of whom were quarterbacks, earned over 300 million U.S. dollars by 2025.

www.statista.com

 

[1960Pats]

Do you have any facts to confirm your statement? Where is the evidence that he spent more on D than on our O or that he spent more on D than other teams typically do?

Highest earning NFL players of all time 2025| Statista

Which NFL player has the highest career earnings? Five other players, all of whom were quarterbacks, earned over 300 million U.S. dollars by 2025.

www.statista.com

I saw Tom Curran go over this with the draft numbers during one of his shows. I'll see if I can dig it up, but he was making the point that Bill was drafting more defensive players. He was also letting more top-end offensive players walk, which may mean something to the cost differences.

 

[signbabybrady]

I saw Tom Curran go over this with the draft numbers during one of his shows. I'll see if I can dig it up, but he was making the point that Bill was drafting more defensive players. He was also letting more top-end offensive players walk, which may mean something to the cost differences.

This has no value without context

 

[Wozzy]

I use to say BB. but it has become clear to me more and more that it was mostly due to Brady allowing BB to spend so much on D while still producing and sometimes even winning with offensive comebacks. And the history of BB post and pre Brady is pretty damning unfortunately. Of course every coach needs QBs to win but it shouldn't have looked as bad as it did and he shouldn't have lost the locker room and pulse on the team like he did. Brady just allow so many of BB's ego problems which would otherwise sink him to be swept under the rug cause he commanded so much respect and was such a good leader. BB is still a top coach of all time, but not the GOAT IMO.

I might say neither and put in Bill Walsh.

BB drafted and developed Brady… he didn’t just appear on the doorstep at Gillette.

Brady also “took less” from 2014-2018, prior to that he was among the highest paid players and QB’s in the NFL once his rookie contract expired.

When he left the Patriots he was ranked first or second on the NFL’s all-time earners list and it wasn’t just length of career because some peers had a similarly long careers at that point.

Lombardi was lesser without Bart Starr, Halas was lesser without Sid Luckman, Paul Brown was lesser without Otto Graham, Walsh was less without Montana, Shula couldn’t win rings even with Marino… if you take their best players away from them… sure, they’re all worse coaches.

It’s a player’s game but it’s a team game, great QB’a don’t win rings without great and well coached teams around them.

 

[sb1]

BB drafted and developed Brady… he didn’t just appear on the doorstep at Gillette.

No Brady developed Brady more than anyone else did. Also credit to Weis.

Lombardi was lesser without Bart Starr, Halas was lesser without Sid Luckman, Paul Brown was lesser without Otto Graham, Walsh was less without Montana, Shula couldn’t win rings even with Marino… if you take their best players away from them… sure, they’re all worse coaches.

None of those guys completely cratered as head coaches like Bill did after Brady left. It isn’t that Bill didn’t win as much without Tom. It’s that he turned from a great head coach into a subpar head coach without Tom. The difference is remarkable.

 

[signbabybrady]

No Brady developed Brady more than anyone else did. Also credit to Weis.

 

[sb1]

Well unlike a lot of Bill critics I give Bill full credit for his work *with* the GOAT when talking about his legacy. That absolutely counts and that’s why along with what he’s contributed to the game on the defensive side is why he’s on my top tier all time. I’m talking only about his post Brady years. His peers never cratered without their all time QB like Bill did. 3 missed playoffs out of 4 seasons with the one exception being a complete depantsing to a division rival, a QB failure, and a 4-13 season. Not much to compliment there.

Like I said he lost me with the Patricia and Judge mess.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I saw Tom Curran go over this with the draft numbers during one of his shows. I'll see if I can dig it up, but he was making the point that Bill was drafting more defensive players. He was also letting more top-end offensive players walk, which may mean something to the cost differences.

I’d like to know who he means by that statement because Bill never let more “top-end” offense players walk. The only player in that category would be Thuney. I can agree with good players, but not top-end or elite.

 

[signbabybrady]

Well unlike a lot of Bill critics I give Bill full credit for his work *with* the GOAT when talking about his legacy. That absolutely counts and that’s why along with what he’s contributed to the game on the defensive side is why he’s on my top tier all time. I’m talking only about his post Brady years. His peers never cratered without their all time QB like Bill did. 3 missed playoffs out of 4 seasons with the one exception being a complete depantsing to a division rival, a QB failure, and a 4-13 season. Not much to compliment there.

Like I said he lost me with the Patricia and Judge mess.

Please, you're not giving him full credit for anything.

And you are in fact taking away credit for his part in developing Brady. So I posted some quotes from Brady about what he thinks Bill did. You can ignore if you want just figured it was useful.

 

[sturmrider]

I generally don't get involved in discussions of who is the GOAT, but this is because I judge differently. I look for who is the "GOHE", Greatest of His Era. You see I don't believe we can judge how well a coach, player or horse for horse racing would be in a different era.

For example if you take Brady and put him back in let's just say the 60's when Unitas played and took Unitas and put him in Brady's era they would both be different quarterbacks. Brady would probably still be a good quarterback, but with the way they were mauled during that period, he would likely suffer more injuries. There would also be less penalties called roughing the passer, Ha not happening. Pass interference you had to tackle the receiver before the ball got there.

It is the same with coaches if you can hang onto your prime athletes versus having free agency you think differently. It could be a blessing because you may get a better free agent, but you could also lose one at a prime position. It is just different eras.

Thus my contention is you should always look for the "GOHE" and that will provide a lot of arguments there as well. Just my thoughts. Hope I don't derail things too much and inspire too much ire.

Take care all.

 

[OldEngland]

When talking GOAT coach, my opinion is the main factors are longetivity and dominance in winning the big game, then also legacy. If you take those criteria as 25+ years as a head coach and 5+ superbowls (or pre SB championships) then Paul Brown, George Halas, Curly Lambeau and Bill Belichick are in the highest tier of NFL coaches.
Just below that there are a series of long serving coaches without the very high number of superbowl wins, including Noll, Shula, Reid, and Landry. And also a series of coaches with shorter careers with lots of wins in the big game like Lombardi, Walsh, and Gibbs. GOAT coach is not clear cut like GOAT QB, and fans could probably make a case for any of those names if they so desired.

Shula's superbowl and playoff record is pretty average in the company of those greatest coaches. 8 coaches have more superbowl or pre SB championship victories than him and another 8 have the same amount. Regular season longetivity and wins without dominance in big games isn't GOAT worthy in my opinion regardless of a perfect season. Overall wins record makes him part of the conversation but lack of SB wins means not top of the pile.

Personally I'd go Paul Brown as the GOAT coach of all time. Won at high school, college and pro level. Was an owner, GM, and HC. Plus the legacy of the innovations such as game film, playbook knowledge that are integral to all levels of football today.

 

[rochrist]

Personally I'd go Paul Brown as the GOAT coach of all time. Won at high school, college and pro level. Was an owner, GM, and HC. Plus the legacy of the innovations such as game film, playbook knowledge that are integral to all levels of football today.

I expect Bill would agree with this.

 

[XLIX]

BB drafted and developed Brady… he didn’t just appear on the doorstep at Gillette.

And then Belichick's hubris led him to think he could do something similar with any old quarterback. Belichick learned - the hard way - that Tom Brady was something special and that it was Brady who made Belichick, not vice-versa.

 

[signbabybrady]

And then Belichick's hubris led him to think he could do something similar with any old quarterback. Belichick learned - the hard way - that Tom Brady was something special and that it was Brady who made Belichick, not vice-versa.

I think just the opposite he didn't think he could do it with any old quarterback he hesitantly tried it with a former MVP who he only signed well after free agency started and after the draft. Presumably after trying trade options as well. This would suggest he didn't think his options were great and that he knew replacing Brady would be difficult, not vice versa.

Then he drafted one 15th overall. Again this would suggest he knew he needed to invest to replace Brady and not vice versa.

You're just making up your own version of events.

 

[maust]

This is a fool's errand. Free agency and the salary cap changed coaching and roster management so profoundly that it's impossible to compare coaches from the pre and post FA/cap eras fairly.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is a fool's errand. Free agency and the salary cap changed coaching and roster management so profoundly that it's impossible to compare coaches from the pre and post FA/cap eras fairly.

His job is to coach (and GM).

He's coached the greatest player of all time.

And he's won the most SBs of all time.

Doesn't sound like a fools errand to me.

 

[Penn State Patriot]

Greatest coach I've seen in pro football is Bill Parcells. Forget the numbers and longevity stats. If I was starting a team from scratch and needed a head coach who I was sure would build a winning program, Parcells is my guy. He won everywhere he went and the number of hall of fame QBs he had was zero.

 

[Wozzy]

No Brady developed Brady more than anyone else did. Also credit to Weis.

Fangirl much.

Brady will be the first to tell you what BB did for him, he actually teared up discussing it. Tom sat for a year and came back 15-20 pounds heavier and still wasn’t quite ready to start. Charlie Weis and Bill had to keep the restrictor plate on him after Drew got hurt and shepherd him along. You were probably 10 years old at that time, so your memory is foggy.

None of those guys completely cratered as head coaches like Bill did after Brady left. It isn’t that Bill didn’t win as much without Tom. It’s that he turned from a great head coach into a subpar head coach without Tom. The difference is remarkable.

Wrong. Most all the coach’s on this list have terrible seasons mixed in with their record, most of them coached a long time. This is one of those “I created a fact” type takes with no substance or facts behind it.