Time To Move On From Zappe and Shuster

[mgteich]

They may do well elsewhere, or not. For us, it is time to move on.

ZAPPE
I suppose we could keep him until the end of camp, in case of an injury, but that isn't the Patriot Way. I think that Maye is more ready than we think. Also, Milton could be the #2 if we don't want to put Maye on the field. What's the worst that would happen, another loss or two with Milton at QB?

MILTON
Milton is a fine candidate to be our #2 for the next 3 years (2025-2027). The coaches do have a lot of work in front of them. They could hire another assistant coach if necessary to work with him. Milton needs to learn how to pass effectively in the short to intermediate range. The main thing is that he has lots and lots of talent and a year and half (one season and two training camps) to learn to be good enough to be our #2. If not, we'll sign a free agent next year or even draft another QB in the 6th round.

SCHUSTER
Let me say it. I think that Shuster can be a #2. He played injured last year. If we had a mediocre year last year, Schuster would simply be one of the WR's for 2024 and 2025. But we've really moved on, re-signing Bourne, signing Osborn, and having 4 youngsters who all could be part of the future: Douglas, Polk, Baker and Thornton. Six is more than enough. We even have Reagor and Boutte as longshots and likely candidates for the Practice Squad.

I would move him as soon as we can convince a team that he is healthy and we have an offer. I'm happy as long as the other team picks up $2M of Schuster's 2024 salary, giving us no cap effect (instead of the $2M cap effect if we cut him).

 

[Bill Lee]

There's no rush on any of the above.

Why just think about where Maye will be, why not wait till the end of camp to know where he (and the OL!) will be?

Got to be prepared for the fact that injuries can happen in TC too, so no need to make moves now, presuming you still believe in the players on the roster.

Zappe is decent injury insurance. If he isn't, he should have been let go at the end of last season and some other vet QB should have been signed.

Milton is practice squad material. Some other team would need to give him a roster spot to claim him off our squad, and he ain't good enough to hold such a spot, so he'll be fine on our practice squad. Wait till cut down day when there will be zillions of players in motion, he'll slide onto our PS no problem.

Keep JJSS through camp. If he ain't top 6 on cut down day, cut him. Don't worry about a $2M cap hit. We have $50M of cap space and there aren't $50M worth of FAs worth signing out there.

 

[mgteich]

There's no rush on any of the above.

Why just think about where Maye will be, why not wait till the end of camp to know where he (and the OL!) will be?

Got to be prepared for the fact that injuries can happen in TC too, so no need to make moves now, presuming you still believe in the players on the roster.

Zappe is decent injury insurance. If he isn't, he should have been let go at the end of last season and some other vet QB should have been signed.

Milton is practice squad material. Some other team would need to give him a roster spot to claim him off our squad, and he ain't good enough to hold such a spot, so he'll be fine on our practice squad. Wait till cut down day when there will be zillions of players in motion, he'll slide onto our PS no problem.

Keep JJSS through camp. If he ain't top 6 on cut down day, cut him. Don't worry about a $2M cap hit. We have $50M of cap space and there aren't $50M worth of FAs worth signing out there.

ZAPPE
I have no problem keeping Zappe as injury insurance until the final cut. I just don't think that the patriots operate that way. If there is an injury, they will sign someone, probably someone better than Zappe. There was no incentive to cut him at the end of the season. Perhaps we'll get a 6th for him now.

MILTON
Milton has enough talent that some team will sign him as their #3 if we don't want him on our 53-man squad. If not, we need to sign a low-cost veteran for insurance and as a possible 2024 #2.

 

[Thunderhead]

Agreed. Sooner both are gone, the better.

 

[signbabybrady]

If some team wants to give us something worth it then I'll consider it.

I don't see the point in trading them just for a 6 or 7. If it were to be a 5th then I'd think about it. I don't think anyone is giving that up though.

Otherwise they're more valuable as competition in camp and insurance for injuries. And who knows maybe one or both surprises and makes the team.

My opinion is unless Juju's knees really did need the year to recover then they both probably get cut at the end of camp but why not wait and see.

For Juju his chances probably completely rely on a healthy knee.

For Zappe he probably needs Milton to completely fall on his face. And so far it seems his arm strength has been as advertised and while the rest of his game still has a ton to work on it seems like the coaching staff is impressed.

 

[Sicilian]

There's no rush on any of the above.

Why just think about where Maye will be, why not wait till the end of camp to know where he (and the OL!) will be?

Got to be prepared for the fact that injuries can happen in TC too, so no need to make moves now, presuming you still believe in the players on the roster.

Zappe is decent injury insurance. If he isn't, he should have been let go at the end of last season and some other vet QB should have been signed.

Milton is practice squad material. Some other team would need to give him a roster spot to claim him off our squad, and he ain't good enough to hold such a spot, so he'll be fine on our practice squad. Wait till cut down day when there will be zillions of players in motion, he'll slide onto our PS no problem.

Keep JJSS through camp. If he ain't top 6 on cut down day, cut him. Don't worry about a $2M cap hit. We have $50M of cap space and there aren't $50M worth of FAs worth signing out there.

This is my thinking as well. Everything the OP said might be true, but there's not really any advantage to jettisoning these guys in May. If you get to camp, and it's pretty clear neither has a role on the team, THEN you cut/trade them to clear the way for Maye and the other WR's to get more reps. But there's no reason to do it during OTA's other than emotional catharsis for the fans.

 

[203Pat]

Completely agree. Every rep either one of those bums takes is a rep that should have gone to one of the rookies. And plus I hate Juju.

 

[Real fan 02]

If some team wants to give us something worth it then I'll consider it.

I don't see the point in trading them just for a 6 or 7. If it were to be a 5th then I'd think about it. I don't think anyone is giving that up though.

Otherwise they're more valuable as competition in camp and insurance for injuries. And who knows maybe one or both surprises and makes the team.

My opinion is unless Juju's knees really did need the year to recover then they both probably get cut at the end of camp but why not wait and see.

For Juju his chances probably completely rely on a healthy knee.

For Zappe he probably needs Milton to completely fall on his face. And so far it seems his arm strength has been as advertised and while the rest of his game still has a ton to work on it seems like the coaching staff is impressed.

Zapster is here because he is cheap, has some experience winning games and with the organization. We know he's the least talented QB on the roster.. I'm with you on juju.. he says he's 100% healthy wich I don't buy.. but if he shows out in camp then great he's a tradable commodity. I all in on polk and baker as they develop with Drake.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Zappe should’ve been gone when they traded Jones. The QB room needed to be cleared out.

I think they’ll wait one more time to see if Schuster is cooked before cutting him and taking the cap hit.

 

[Bill Lee]

ZAPPE
I have no problem keeping Zappe as injury insurance until the final cut. I just don't think that the patriots operate that way. If there is an injury, they will sign someone, probably someone better than Zappe. There was no incentive to cut him at the end of the season. Perhaps we'll get a 6th for him now.

If there is an injury you still need to find someone who can do the job in general and know our system in particular. I don't think just signing someone is a good enough plan. I'm not sure we know how the Patriots operate these days, but we do see lots of teams with no viable plan once their QB gets injured and I hope we're not one of those.

MILTON
Milton has enough talent that some team will sign him as their #3 if we don't want him on our 53-man squad. If not, we need to sign a low-cost veteran for insurance and as a possible 2024 #2.

If that was the case, why didn't "some other team" draft him or make him a huge offer as a UDFA? I think we're over-rating a binky here.

 

[mgteich]

This is my thinking as well. Everything the OP said might be true, but there's not really any advantage to jettisoning these guys in May. If you get to camp, and it's pretty clear neither has a role on the team, THEN you cut/trade them to clear the way for Maye and the other WR's to get more reps. But there's no reason to do it during OTA's other than emotional catharsis for the fans.

Sure, be a great GM and wait until August to trade Zappe and Shuster. Perhaps you'll get lucky and they won't be injured. Perhaps all you'll be wasting is reps for the other players.

To be clear, we have WR's who need lots of reps. I think it silly to give reps to someone who will be cut unless there are two injuries, AND he looks good.

With regard to Zappe, the Patriot Way is to do him a solid and trade or cut him before camp. Maybe it's better to wait, but again, let's give Milton his reps.
============
And just BTW, perhaps, just perhaps, a team might give a bit more for a player in June then they would in August. Personally, I don't think that we'll get anything for Zappe if we wait, and he'll pass waivers again. Shuster COULD be an important part of a team (maybe their #3). If that is the case, they would want him before camp starts, perhaps paying a bit more, perhaps not.
===============
My BOTTOM LINE is that we don't need these players getting reps, while waiting for an injury.
==============
AS AN ASIDE
I would note that no one wanted Zappe last year; he passed through waivers. I think possible that he makes a roster, but it is unlikely.

On the other hand, Shuster is potential #2 or #3 WR.

 

[mgteich]

If that was the case, why didn't "some other team" draft him or make him a huge offer as a UDFA? I think we're over-rating a binky here.

???

We DRAFTED Milton in the 6th. No one had the opportunity to make him an offer. He was not an UNDRAFTED free agent.

Milton was drafted in the 6th, a reasonable spot to get POTENTIAL backups, or current #3's. I would have taken the shot on the FSU QB, but I'm fine with their choice. They have done the analysis and think that they have a reasonable chance of developing him.

 

[The Gr8est]

If there is an injury you still need to find someone who can do the job in general and know our system in particular. I don't think just signing someone is a good enough plan. I'm not sure we know how the Patriots operate these days, but we do see lots of teams with no viable plan once their QB gets injured and I hope we're not one of those.




If that was the case, why didn't "some other team" draft him or make him a huge offer as a UDFA? I think we're over-rating a binky here.

If we have an injury to Brissett and don’t want to expose Maye yet, Zappe can get us a top 5 pick as well as any QB.

He did last year.

 

[signbabybrady]

Completely agree. Every rep either one of those bums takes is a rep that should have gone to one of the rookies. And plus I hate Juju.

Polk and Baker need to go take those reps by proving to be better and even then Juju has value providing reps to whatever DBs he does match up against even after he gets beat out by Polk and Baker.

Zero cap savings and little draft capital in return then why not still use them in camp and see what happens? Don't let hate and anger cloud your judgement it is not the Jedi way.

 

[The Gr8est]

???

We DRAFTED Milton in the 6th. No one had the opportunity to make him an offer. He was not an UNDRAFTED free agent.

Milton was drafted in the 6th, a reasonable spot to get POTENTIAL backups, or current #3's. I would have taken the shot on the FSU QB, but I'm fine with their choice. They have done the analysis and think that they have a reasonable chance of developing him.

Milton has what Parcells referred to as a “planet talent”. There are very few people on the planet with his raw talent. It needs to be developed, but planet players are not staying on a practice squad. The upside is too great.

Would the Pats have signed Milton if he was on another team’s practice squad last year?

Zappe is a planet player…

Said nobody ever!

 

[signbabybrady]

If we have an injury to Bridgett and don’t want to expose Maye yet, Zappe can get a top 5 puck as well as any QB.

He did last year.

We talking football or hockey and B rated movies from decades ago?

 

[Sicilian]

Sure, be a great GM and wait until August to trade Zappe and Shuster. Perhaps you'll get lucky and they won't be injured. Perhaps all you'll be wasting is reps for the other players.

To be clear, we have WR's who need lots of reps. I think it silly to give reps to someone who will be cut unless there are two injuries, AND he looks good.

With regard to Zappe, the Patriot Way is to do him a solid and trade or cut him before camp. Maybe it's better to wait, but again, let's give Milton his reps.
============
And just BTW, perhaps, just perhaps, a team might give a bit more for a player in June then they would in August. Personally, I don't think that we'll get anything for Zappe if we wait, and he'll pass waivers again. Shuster COULD be an important part of a team (maybe their #3). If that is the case, they would want him before camp starts, perhaps paying a bit more, perhaps not.
===============
My BOTTOM LINE is that we don't need these players getting reps, while waiting for an injury.
==============
AS AN ASIDE
I would note that no one wanted Zappe last year; he passed through waivers. I think possible that he makes a roster, but it is unlikely.

On the other hand, Shuster is potential #2 or #3 WR.

I think you might be overestimating what they'd actually get back for either of these players. Likely the "risk" you're taking is getting a 7th round pick, a late round pick swap, or nothing at all. I don't think waiting until August changes much, and is also countered by the possibility that other teams suffer injuries and suddenly are more willing to take a change. Maybe that 7th turns into a 6th for Zappe if a team loses their starter or primary backup. Maybe that late round pick swap turns into a straight 6th for JuJu if the Chiefs (a team he's had success with recently) loses a couple WR, or finds out that Rice is going to be suspended.

You seem to think that A) they have NO value to the Patriots, which is debatable and B) that their value can only go DOWN between now and the end of camp, which again I think isn't true.

 

[Clonamery]

I think the OP wants less chaos.

 

[Fuzz]

A couple of other reasons to move on from Zappe:

1) Zappe's experience here is not as valuable, because we ran a completely different scheme.
2) The new scheme relies on big armed quarterbacks like Milton, Maye and Brissett. Zappe is a very different player than all the other QBs on the roster.

Shuster I'm not sure yet. I'm intrigued by his comments stating that he feels 100% when he only felt 60% at best last year. Want to see how he looks in TC.

 

[Bill Lee]

???

We DRAFTED Milton in the 6th. No one had the opportunity to make him an offer. He was not an UNDRAFTED free agent.

Milton was drafted in the 6th, a reasonable spot to get POTENTIAL backups, or current #3's. I would have taken the shot on the FSU QB, but I'm fine with their choice. They have done the analysis and think that they have a reasonable chance of developing him.

Sorry, I thought he was UDFA. I stand corrected. It doesn't change my argument much, though. IMO he'll make to our PS no problem. If he doesn't, oh well, he's still a long way away from being a NFL starter.