Pats players you’ve given up on vs players you still have hope for

[AQPE]

Why give up on any of them during the offseason, especially with a new coaching staff in place?

People are off the rails about Strange, it’s apparent that he wasn’t worth the 29th pick in the draft, he’s not going to be an All Pro, especially in a scheme that doesn’t play to his strengths, but he is more than serviceable when healthy, which he was not at any point last season. What I see is a guy that can be a good but not great player in the right system and thus I will not be surprised at all to see Strange traded towards the end of camp with Sow taking over as LG1.

For any of the other OL listed, we are talking about late round guys who came into a mess last year between a position coach who was so bad he got fired mid season and replaced by a veteran player, and injuries to Strange and Onwenu to start the year, Anderson’s illness, Rieff’s rigor mortis, and Trent Brown’s usual crap. I don’t see much talent there with Lowe and have no idea what Wheatley’s deal is, but even with those two (guys who would likely have been cut from their other teams if the Pats hadn’t traded to get them), with better coaching and a full offseason their value will be a lot clearer in August than in early May. Surely at least one of the OTs mentioned will be displaced by Wallace, and if they carry 10 OL on their roster it seems more likely that either Leverett or Mafi will be competing for one spot.

As for the receivers listed, they all have a lot to prove in camp but if he is healthy, Smith-Schuster is a proven NFL player. The same cannot be said about Thornton or Boutte but both of those guys seem to be more gifted physically than Juju. I could see Juju getting traded also if he shows up healthy in camp, the other two seem more likely than Reagor to be displaced by Polk and Baker. Reagor seems more likely to take Slater’s spot.

I expect Ryland to beat out Slye, and including Baringer on this list is ridiculous

 

[Real fan 02]

I just think Juju’s legs are toast. The injuries have mounted up for him, he’s not the same guy anymore.

I could see Thornton latching on elsewhere as a gadget type player with his speed, but I’m just not seeing it here. His build is too thin.

One more I haven’t seen mentioned: Shaun Wade.

Wade actually played well last season, and finally showed something. I believe he will continue to ascend, he's got great Size and length at CB. But agree on Thornton and juju.. camp will tell us exactly where they are at. Another player of note Bledsoe.

 

[Real fan 02]

I gave up on Brissett even before he came back to New England.

He's your starter.

 

[Real fan 02]

Given up on boutte, Thornton, lowe.

Wheatley is almost there but i truly haven’t seen too much of him. Zappe I think can be a capable backup qb. If he can go 4-4 with the trash teams he was on he could probably manage a decent record if needed in relief on a good team.

Boutte is strictly a immaturity issue. Being a young player some guys take longer to mature sometimes. He clearly has ability, and can be a solid player for us IF he matures, and comes into camp committed to football if not then he can go into sports betting full time. Zapp is interesting.. he showed flashes in a terrible offense the last 2 seasons.. I believe his ceiling is the Steelers game first half Last season, and his floor is the bills game last season. Lowe is mystery why he's here, Thornton if he's not on IR by the end of camp will likely be outplayed by Polk and baker.

 

[jmt57]

People are not being rational about Cole Strange.

I get that fans hated the Pats using a first round pick on him - nobody is debating that.

Why judge him on that? That draft is over, you can't change that. Judge him on his play, when healthy. Do you really want Mafi or Leverett or Jordan or Jake Andrews starting instead? That's where the focus should be - not on 2022 draft decisions.

He suffered his injury very early in training camp, before any preseason games. Should have been shut down then and there. If that had happened he could have had his surgery in August or September rather than in early 2024 - in which case he would have been ready well before training camp. At worst he misses the first game or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he's ready to go in week one. His availability in May for OTAs is irrelevant.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Boutte is strictly a immaturity issue. Being a young player some guys take longer to mature sometimes. He clearly has ability, and can be a solid player for us IF he matures, and comes into camp committed to football if not then he can go into sports betting full time. Zapp is interesting.. he showed flashes in a terrible offense the last 2 seasons.. I believe his ceiling is the Steelers game first half Last season, and his floor is the bills game last season. Lowe is mystery why he's here, Thornton if he's not on IR by the end of camp will likely be outplayed by Polk and baker.

The thing with boutte is how utterly useless hes been in games even when hes gotten a show of faith. Shows me its more than a maturity thing. If theres a way to ir him or something in case someone sees reason to give him a further look thats fine but i don’t see any way he should make it to the 53

 

[sb1]

Pats were sold a lemon in Juju unfortunately. This is not the guy who I really thought could be an upgrade over Meyers.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Given up on:
Zappe
TT

Not given up on:
Strange
Ryland
Juju
Boutte

But if those last three don;t look good in camp, they move to the "given up on" list.

 

[mike_usagisan]

People are not being rational about Cole Strange.

I get that fans hated the Pats using a first round pick on him - nobody is debating that.

Why judge him on that? That draft is over, you can't change that. Judge him on his play, when healthy. Do you really want Mafi or Leverett or Jordan or Jake Andrews starting instead? That's where the focus should be - not on 2022 draft decisions.

He suffered his injury very early in training camp, before any preseason games. Should have been shut down then and there. If that had happened he could have had his surgery in August or September rather than in early 2024 - in which case he would have been ready well before training camp. At worst he misses the first game or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he's ready to go in week one. His availability in May for OTAs is irrelevant.

I think Strange is like Chung. Chung wasn't worth his draft pick and then got misused. He left and then came back on a cheap deal and he played great for the rest of his career here.

 

[condon84]

The only player we should go give up on is now in Jacksonville.

Everyone else should be given a chance especially our receivers who directly got affected because of how awful Mac was/is.

 

[signbabybrady]

He's your starter.

Can I simultaneously feel he's an improvement over Mac or Zappe but also feel "ugh" this guy is our starter?

I gave your comment the "ugh" emoji not directed at you but at Jacoby.

I don't want to rush Maye but I also think he should be good enough to beat out Jacoby and will be mildly concerned if he doesn't. Obviously his footwork or whatever else they feel he needs to fix might trump just putting the better player out but not sure how you hold him back either when he's probably going to look better.

Feels like you could be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Either Mayo needs to be so on point that he gets it right or Maye needs to be good enough that either way you choose will work.

 

[archstanton543]

People are not being rational about Cole Strange.

I get that fans hated the Pats using a first round pick on him - nobody is debating that.

Why judge him on that? That draft is over, you can't change that. Judge him on his play, when healthy. Do you really want Mafi or Leverett or Jordan or Jake Andrews starting instead? That's where the focus should be - not on 2022 draft decisions.

He suffered his injury very early in training camp, before any preseason games. Should have been shut down then and there. If that had happened he could have had his surgery in August or September rather than in early 2024 - in which case he would have been ready well before training camp. At worst he misses the first game or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he's ready to go in week one. His availability in May for OTAs is irrelevant.

I am judging him on his play. And his play is, as the kids say, mid.

 

[signbabybrady]

James White not giving up on TT yet.

Former Patriots RB picks struggling offensive weapon as team's breakout player in 2024 | Sporting News

Could a former second-round pick finally show something on the field?

www.sportingnews.com

 

[mgteich]

James White not giving up on TT yet.

Former Patriots RB picks struggling offensive weapon as team's breakout player in 2024 | Sporting News

Could a former second-round pick finally show something on the field?

www.sportingnews.com

Yes, Thornton could have a chance to have a good season. However, that possibility has to start with one of the other five not being available, probably two not being available. If 4 of our top 5 WR's are available, Thronton would be inactive, even he were on the top 53.

So, for me, he would need injuries to make the 53 and then probably to beat out Baker for reps to even have a chance at having a good year. IMO, a good preseason would mean next to nothing, other than perhaps that another team will give us a pick for him.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yes, Thornton could have a chance to have a good season. However, that possibility has to start with one of the other five not being available, probably two not being available. If 4 of our top 5 WR's are available, Thronton would be inactive, even he were on the top 53.

So, for me, he would need injuries to make the 53 and then probably to beat out Baker for reps to even have a chance at having a good year. IMO, a good preseason would mean next to nothing, other than perhaps that another team will give us a pick for him.

For the record I posted the article because it's relevant to the thread I've actually pretty much given up on him. My stance is I doubt he produces but he's more than worth bringing to camp and giving him one more chance.

That said if he actually proves himself I see no reason why injuries would have to occur or anything else would prevent him from actually getting reps.

We might just have to carry an extra WR and/or make a difficult decision to cut someone else.

Having 2 rookies definitely crowds the position so I get what your saying but again if he earns it then play him.

Pop, Bourne, and Juju are our top 3 right now and Baker and Polk obviously aren't going anywhere. Osborn seems to be decent too so TT definitely has his work cut out for him. If he proves to be better than a few of these guys then I don't see why injuries need to occur just means you cut someone else.

Even without TT we might have to cut one.

All that and I'm still not sure there's a true WR1 so no one is really untouchable other than the rooks.

PS a KR like Reagor could also further complicate things.

 

[sb1]

Strange shouldn’t have been a first round pick but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. He has room to develop and become a good one. The injuries are a problem for me though so I think he has to be on notice in 2024.

 

[Real fan 02]

I think Strange is like Chung. Chung wasn't worth his draft pick and then got misused. He left and then came back on a cheap deal and he played great for the rest of his career here.

Agreed, as Chung was asked to play FS and he's a strong safety. He even said before he Agreed to return he asked Bill what would be different this time.

 

[mgteich]

For the record I posted the article because it's relevant to the thread I've actually pretty much given up on him. My stance is I doubt he produces but he's more than worth bringing to camp and giving him one more chance.

That said if he actually proves himself I see no reason why injuries would have to occur or anything else would prevent him from actually getting reps.

We might just have to carry an extra WR and/or make a difficult decision to cut someone else.

Having 2 rookies definitely crowds the position so I get what your saying but again if he earns it then play him.

Pop, Bourne, and Juju are our top 3 right now and Baker and Polk obviously aren't going anywhere. Osborn seems to be decent too so TT definitely has his work cut out for him. If he proves to be better than a few of these guys then I don't see why injuries need to occur just means you cut someone else.

Even without TT we might have to cut one.

All that and I'm still not sure there's a true WR1 so no one is really untouchable other than the rooks.

PS a KR like Reagor could also further complicate things.

BOURNE, DOUGLAS, POLK and BAKER are going nowhere.
========
OSBORNE is very likely a lock. We guaranteed over $3M for this year so that can play him. Perhaps he is our #1, or perhaps our #5. To be clear, the team had a plan when they signed Osborne. They knew that Bourne and Douglas were coming back. And staff certainly expect to sign or draft 2 additional WR's. And, as injury insurance, we had Reagor and Thornton.

I don't see how ju-ju was ever in the 2024 plans.
=======
You want me to ignore injuries. OK, then I don't think that anyone else will make the roster. Personally, I think that Thornton will be traded. 2yr/$3M is Ok for someone to give him a try. If Bourne is on the PUP list, I could see Thornton being his replacement on the roster if he isn't traded.
======
REAGOR
He could make the team as a KR, although I doubt it. I think that we are fine with Jones and Bolden.

Ju-Ju
He may or may not be better than one of the 5 roster players. We're aiming for the future. I see ZERO reason for keeping him. Do we really want to have Douglas inactive so that we can play Ju-ju in his position as a slot receiver?

It is simply time to move on. Our cap money will be $2M less after he is gone, unless we get someone to pay $2M of his 2024 salary in which case there is no increase in cap charges.

 

[Real fan 02]

Can I simultaneously feel he's an improvement over Mac or Zappe but also feel "ugh" this guy is our starter?

I gave your comment the "ugh" emoji not directed at you but at Jacoby.

I don't want to rush Maye but I also think he should be good enough to beat out Jacoby and will be mildly concerned if he doesn't. Obviously his footwork or whatever else they feel he needs to fix might trump just putting the better player out but not sure how you hold him back either when he's probably going to look better.

Feels like you could be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Either Mayo needs to be so on point that he gets it right or Maye needs to be good enough that either way you choose will work.

Agreed. I agree 100% I believe Mayo's using that to push Maye. As thier names are synonymous with each other from here on out. Mayo's seen first hand on how to ruin a young QBs development. I mentioned that post on Brissett becuase

that's what the talk is about " Maye isn't ready yet" so let Brissett play. I'm ok with Brissett starting if he earned it. Now I'll say this he has the biggest advantage over all the QBs being he played in AVPs system. However if Drake outplays him in camp I can't see how mayo won't start him.

Zapp is probably already trying to think of ways to undermine drake.. so he or Brissett to your point are better options and upgrades at QB.

 

[Real fan 02]

Strange shouldn’t have been a first round pick but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. He has room to develop and become a good one. The injuries are a problem for me though so I think he has to be on notice in 2024.

Agreed. He's been in a terrible offense last 2 seasons.. so hard to gadge him correctly. Plus he's been hurt as well.