Drake Maye would be the IDEAL pick for the Patriots at #3

[Aussie Patriot]

Have you watched him play? I watched the entire Ohio game and came away fully unimpressed.

That's fair enough and of course people see things differently but you can't make a decision on a player after just one game, no matter what his name is.

 

[Love The Drake]

Giants are desperately trying to trade in the the top 5 for JJ McCarthy.
Reports said Daboll is in love with him.

I wish we could go Harrison Jr or Nabors at 3.
But we can’t afford to, we need that franchise QB.
I’d cough up my third round pick for Higgins, Pittman.

So if we don’t leave draft weekend with one of Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy, Nix, Fields.
I am going to lose my mind.

 

[The Gr8est]

Giants are desperately trying to trade in the the top 5 for JJ McCarthy.
Reports said Daboll is in love with him.

I wish we could go Harrison Jr or Nabors at 3.
But we can’t afford to, we need that franchise QB.
I’d cough up my third round pick for Higgins, Pittman.

So if we don’t leave draft weekend with one of Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy, Nix, Fields.
I am going to lose my mind.

Desperate teams do desperate things.

 

[Love The Drake]

Previously people said if we traded town from 3 to 10 QB would still be there.
NOPE.
You have to take the franchise QB right?
I mean at this rate we are looking at 5 QBs in the top 10.

Maybe Pennix makes the first round.

Milton and Rattler won’t make it past the third round.
This is going to push some excellent players down the board.
Teams with franchise QBs can take full advantage of the desperate teams.

 

[The Gr8est]

Previously people said if we traded town from 3 to 10 QB would still be there.
NOPE.
You have to take the franchise QB right?
I mean at this rate we are looking at 5 QBs in the top 10.

Maybe Pennix makes the first round.

Milton and Rattler won’t make it past the third round.
This is going to push some excellent players down the board.
Teams with franchise QBs can take full advantage of the desperate teams.

It has been mentioned before that we are really going to lean on our QB whisperers.

If we traded with the Giants so that they could take McCarthy at 3, then one of the big three QBs presumably gets past Arizona, and another desperate team trades up to 5 and the top 4 QBs are gone.

Would the Giants give the Pats enough to make it worthwhile?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I'm not against moving 34 if it gets us another Day 2 pick in the Second or Third Rounds this is shaping up to be a nice Offensive Draft also Ivan we need a TE if H Henry is not in our future.

After Bowers and Sanders go my pick is for Sinnott.

 

[Wozzy]

It has been mentioned before that we are really going to lean on our QB whisperers.

If we traded with the Giants so that they could take McCarthy at 3, then one of the big three QBs presumably gets past Arizona, and another desperate team trades up to 5 and the top 4 QBs are gone.

Would the Giants give the Pats enough to make it worthwhile?

Assuming Williams/Maye go one/two... the Pats should pull the trigger on Daniels or McCarthy at 3 if they can't ensure some team they are trading back with isn't QB hunting. The only thing worse than drafting the wrong guy, is letting the right guy go to another team.

The Browns in 2017 could have potentially traded for JimmyG if they weren't cheap, they could have drafted Mahomes or Deshaun Watson.... instead they traded back and took Deshone Kizer in the second round. They went 0-16 and were a cellar dweller forever after that.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Previously people said if we traded town from 3 to 10 QB would still be there.
NOPE.
You have to take the franchise QB right?
I mean at this rate we are looking at 5 QBs in the top 10.

Maybe Pennix makes the first round.

I think a few teams will really look at Penix (Rams, Broncos /Nix big possibility for Denver imo) but I think the Raiders are I front after Pierce's comments about PA, throwing down field, explosive plays.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

What’s there not to like about McCarthy? He seems to have all the tools with good arm strength, decent mobility and all the intangibles. He’s also 3 years younger than Daniels.

If Maye isn’t there at 3, I’d be fine with McCarthy.

My opinion, McCarthy is more of an athlete than a football player. He has a strong arm, but I believe he lacks touch and accuracy, but that’s just my view

 

[thecore762]

I wouldn't even trade down. If you are trading down to 6 because you think Daniels is at McCarthy or Penix level, you are still over drafting the **** out of whoever you get. Also the Giants are going to be looking for QB, they are down on Jones, so if they think Daniels is legit, all you did was take him off the board and let 4 or 5 snag MHJ. Which means you basically burned the 3rd at that point and lost out on the 3 highest graded QB's and the best player all for maybe an extra second and then you have to burn the 6th overall on Penix or McCarthy who aren't worth being drafted that high to begin with.

People are obsessed with the idea of getting a QB no matter who it is or trading down. Both of which aren't great philosophies. There's just not enough value and too much risk in trading down and there's too good of a get at 3 if you really aren't 100% sold on the QB.

To me this is simple. You either love the QB at 3 and grab him or you take MHJ. You can package a trade up to get Penix or McCarthy if you really want them later.

Agree with this. It be stupid to pick JJ this high up.
You either take Daniels or MHJr.

JJ doesn’t instill confidence. If you watched his highlights, he isn’t that great. He had a very good team around him and a very good coaching staff putting him in the right situation. I am sorry but we are not going to be able to build a team around him. You need a playmaker and a difference maker.

If we don’t get Maye then Daniels is the next best option or you take MHjr and try to trade up for nix/Penix in the mid round.

The way I feel is either take MHJr and sign Fields or trade back into the 1st and try to snatch Nix or Penix in the mid to late 1st.

 

[Huckleberry1]

We see the bolded all the time. This one is fairly obvious and needs to be taken off the list. Unless I'm reading this totally wrong.

Teams are wrong a lot. They evaluate prospects differently. Gamble for different reasons. See things others don't.

How did it work out for the 49ers? I doubt the Panthers are feeling good after the move they made for Young. These arevad recent as you can get. I believe the Chargers traded up for Ryan Leaf. So did the Colts for George. There are plenty of other examples all over the place.

For the most part, I agree with you as far as the QB position is concerned. It's not an easy process though.

We see the bolded all the time. This one is fairly obvious and needs to be taken off the list. Unless I'm reading this totally wrong.

Teams are wrong a lot. They evaluate prospects differently. Gamble for different reasons. See things others don't.

How did it work out for the 49ers? I doubt the Panthers are feeling good after the move they made for Young. These arevad recent as you can get. I believe the Chargers traded up for Ryan Leaf. So did the Colts for George. There are plenty of other examples all over the place.

For the most part, I agree with you as far as the QB position is concerned. It's not an easy process though.

Good point. And some of those, the Trey Lance deal in particular are inexplicable. They could have just waited for a college basketball team to cut a point guard. I would have to go back and see how often the trade up worked; but unfortunately don’t have time for that today( back to work after taking yesterday off). In this case however the evaluations should be much more stable as all three have a ton of tape, much of it against quality competition, and it would be McCarthy who would be the biggest risk, as his ranking is based more on projection than production.

 

[rogerthat]

2 huge risks that I see in this draft:

1. you bomb the pick at #3;

My opinion, McCarthy is more of an athlete than a football player. He has a strong arm, but I believe he lacks touch and accuracy, but that’s just my view

I like McCarthy a lot and I want the Pats to draft him ahead of Daniels or Maye, but I still think that's a fair criticism. It's basically what they said about Ryan Tannehill. And truth be told, there are similarities there. Except- 1. I think McCarthy is an even better athlete than Tannehill. 2. It appears McCarthy has better leadership and intangible skills than Tannehill. I say 'appears' because none of us really know.

I understand- many crap all over Tannehill as a player, but the truth is the guy has had a nice career and has 2 career playoff victories. IMO no QB that has won multiple playoff games is a failure. I believe McCarthy will be better than Tannehill. Tannehill could end up being the 'poor man's' McCarthy...

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I wouldn't even trade down. If you are trading down to 6 because you think Daniels is at McCarthy or Penix level, you are still over drafting the **** out of whoever you get. Also the Giants are going to be looking for QB, they are down on Jones, so if they think Daniels is legit, all you did was take him off the board and let 4 or 5 snag MHJ. Which means you basically burned the 3rd at that point and lost out on the 3 highest graded QB's and the best player all for maybe an extra second and then you have to burn the 6th overall on Penix or McCarthy who aren't worth being drafted that high to begin with.

People are obsessed with the idea of getting a QB no matter who it is or trading down. Both of which aren't great philosophies. There's just not enough value and too much risk in trading down and there's too good of a get at 3 if you really aren't 100% sold on the QB.

To me this is simple. You either love the QB at 3 and grab him or you take MHJ. You can package a trade up to get Penix or McCarthy if you really want them later.

I disagree with this strategy.

Until 3 weeks ago there were only 2 top-ranked QB's, with Daniels at about 15, McCarthy at about 30, and Penix at about 65. Now it's Daniels and McCarthy interchangeable at 3-6, and Penix at 10-20. That means when we pick at 3, there will be 2 QB's that are equal according to these rankings, and a 3rd that's not far behind. That suggests TRADE DOWN if our draft board looks like that. We are a team with many needs.

Executing that trade down must be done with great care so we don't get caught with nothing. Try to trade with AZ in exchange for a swap of our 34 for their 27, plus one of their 3rd rounders (my favorite cause 27 will land us a tier-1 OT). But if that's not available and there's a huge haul to move to say 8, do it and take Penix there.

Do NOT take Harrison at 3. There are many excellent WR's on the board, many who will be there at 34 and even in the 60's.

 

[The Gr8est]

I disagree with this strategy.

Until 3 weeks ago there were only 2 top-ranked QB's, with Daniels at about 15, McCarthy at about 30, and Penix at about 65. Now it's Daniels and McCarthy interchangeable at 3-6, and Penix at 10-20. That means when we pick at 3, there will be 2 QB's that are equal according to these rankings, and a 3rd that's not far behind. That suggests TRADE DOWN if our draft board looks like that. We are a team with many needs.

Executing that trade down must be done with great care so we don't get caught with nothing. Try to trade with AZ in exchange for a swpa of our 34 for their 27, plus one of their 3rd rounders. But if there's a huge haul to move to say 8, do it and take Penix there.

Do NOT take Harrison at 3. There are many excellent WR's on the board, many who will be there at 34 and even in the 60's.

I agree with the idea of the trade down(s).

If skillfully done this could be a great start to a rebuild.

There are too many questions about the top QBs and less questions about the other top prospects at other positions.

Acquiring additional draft and player resources is preferable IMO, to a QB who you get “QB Beer Goggles” for because you need a QB.

Just because you need and want a QB, doesn’t mean one will appear.

In the end though, we have to trust that our QB evaluators know what they are doing

 

[lancerman]

I disagree with this strategy.

Until 3 weeks ago there were only 2 top-ranked QB's, with Daniels at about 15, McCarthy at about 30, and Penix at about 65. Now it's Daniels and McCarthy interchangeable at 3-6, and Penix at 10-20. That means when we pick at 3, there will be 2 QB's that are equal according to these rankings, and a 3rd that's not far behind. That suggests TRADE DOWN if our draft board looks like that. We are a team with many needs.

Executing that trade down must be done with great care so we don't get caught with nothing. Try to trade with AZ in exchange for a swap of our 34 for their 27, plus one of their 3rd rounders (my favorite cause 27 will land us a tier-1 OT). But if that's not available and there's a huge haul to move to say 8, do it and take Penix there.

Do NOT take Harrison at 3. There are many excellent WR's on the board, many who will be there at 34 and even in the 60's.

McCarthy is absolutely not interchangeable with Daniels. His bet bet is maybe someone takes a chance on him in the last third of the first round. But by that point, we would be in striking distance to trade up. Daniels is legitimately viewed as the third best prospect in the draft and someone who is likely to be taken by anyone who needs a QB after Williams and Maye are gone.

Taking Penix or McCarthy at 8 is nuts. You are basically throwing away the 3rd overall, not getting a high quality player, then overdrafting a QB who shouldn't be drafted that high because you feel like you need a QB all to get maybe an extra second? That insane.

Yeah there are other good WR's, but none are generational prospects that are complete layups. Whatever you net in a trade down isn't getting you something comparable to him at WR or another position later on. Too much of a dumb risk to stockpile assets that will be 50/50 plays anyways.

This team has one strategy that makes sense. Love the QB at 3 and get him or get MHJ and use your second overall to trade up and grab one of the other QB's in the late first.

 

[lancerman]

I agree with the idea of the trade down(s).

If skillfully done this could be a great start to a rebuild.

There are too many questions about the top QBs and less questions about the other top prospects at other positions.

Acquiring additional draft and player resources is preferable IMO, to a QB who you get “QB Beer Goggles” for because you need a QB.

Just because you need and want a QB, doesn’t mean one will appear.

In the end though, we have to trust that our QB evaluators know what they are doing

Too many people think we are going to rebuild in this draft with a magic trade. The Patriots are in position to either get a QB they like at a position of extreme need in the draft OR if they don't like the QB their consolation prize is that they get the best player in the draft who happens to be a generational prospect at another position of extreme need.

You aren't getting enough in a trade down to merit passing up either of those.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Giants are desperately trying to trade in the the top 5 for JJ McCarthy.
Reports said Daboll is in love with him.

I wish we could go Harrison Jr or Nabors at 3.
But we can’t afford to, we need that franchise QB.
I’d cough up my third round pick for Higgins, Pittman.

So if we don’t leave draft weekend with one of Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy, Nix, Fields.
I am going to lose my mind.

That's not an acceptable solution at QB going forward imo.

 

[NFL Mystique]

What do people think the Patriots will do? I personally think they will take Maye/Daniels at 3.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Giants are desperately trying to trade in the the top 5 for JJ McCarthy.
Reports said Daboll is in love with him.

I wish we could go Harrison Jr or Nabors at 3.
But we can’t afford to, we need that franchise QB.
I’d cough up my third round pick for Higgins, Pittman.

So if we don’t leave draft weekend with one of Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy, Nix, Fields.
I am going to lose my mind.

You really think that's enough to compete in a loaded conference?

I think going into the season with either is underwhelming for a team that could have gotten a much better QB at 3 spot.

 

[NFL Mystique]

It’s not reasonable for me or anyone else to expect you to know where I stand on this from just this thread, but myself and many others who want the QB at 3 have all qualified that by stating that the Patriots have to believe they are worth the pick to take him, as most don’t expect them to take any player they don’t believe in. I have also qualified my concept of taking a QB, or any other player in the first round with the expectation that you want them to have an All Pro ceiling. So at this point when we are having these debates it is taken as a given, with the exception of those who want to play ******** games, that the Patriots have to believe in the ceiling of the QB in the first round, or they shouldn’t take them. In my opinion there are 3 franchise QB’s in this draft, and I see McCarthy as a bigger project, and riskier pick, but believe he could have the ceiling needed to be worth a first round pick. I don’t believe Penix or Nix have an All Pro ceiling, so I wouldn’t use a first round pick on them. The Patriots and the rest of the NFL have much more information on them, but that’s my take.


The argument against taking the QB at 3 is usually that the patriots can “ get a haul” for that pick. And while that is probably true it begs the question of why another franchise, or multiple franchises are willing to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player the Patriots don’t believe is worth a single first round pick? The other problem with that argument is that if the Patriots take “ the haul,” but end up still looking for a franchise QB in the future drafts, then the likelihood is that they will end up having to give that same haul back to get up high enough to get their franchise QB then.

The other arguments for not taking the QB at 3 are that Harrison or Alt are higher rated prospects, but the Patriots are at rock bottom, and not only can you get those high quality WR’s and OT’s in top ten’s of most drafts, but you can’t do that at QB, And the truth of the matter is that no one can name a championship team that was built around a generational WR or OT, and every team the Patriots are going to have to get past in the current AFC is built around a franchise QB that was drafted in the first round. Building around a franchise QB is the best way to build a contender. It’s not a guarantee, because you still have to do many other things right as well, but it is the surest path available.

So that’s where I stand as far as this debate goes.

I 100% agree