Drake Maye would be the IDEAL pick for the Patriots at #3

[Huckleberry1]

My guess is the Patriots end up taking Daniels or Maye at three. And this is all moot.

I see where you are coming from though. At worst, they need to come out of this draft with McCarthy. If they come out without any of the three QB's, it's going to be a disaster.

Agree completely. The worst case scenario for me is they end up picking 10th next year, and then have to give up 3 first round picks to move up for a top QB because they didn’t take one at 3 this year. So while people talk about “ the haul” they can get trading out, they don’t seem to consider “ the haul” they may have to give up to go back up to get their QB. So I would rather see them take the risk of drafting the QB at 3, than to pass on them and end up having to give away multiple first rounders to fix that later.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Agree completely. The worst case scenario for me is they end up picking 10th next year, and then have to give up 3 first round picks to move up for a top QB because they didn’t take one at 3 this year. So while people talk about “ the haul” they can get trading out, they don’t seem to consider “ the haul” they may have to give up to go back up to get their QB. So I would rather see them take the risk of drafting the QB at 3, than to pass on them and end up having to give away multiple first rounders to fix that later.

Winner winner

Can't be better said

What's the point of stockpiling picks to move up and get your guy in a few years. When you can do it this year...free of charge.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Depends on who has final say. I'm assuming it's the GM. So you are correct.

Maybe the team has a bad record again. But there are signs of light at the end of the tunnel.

Wolf has said he has the final decision.

 

[Zuma]

Mayo won’t get blamed if Wolf makes the final decision. He will get blamed if they play sloppy football. One of my biggest criticisms of Belichick’s final years here was his willingness to stand by unit coaches like Cam Achord, when their ST units were playing like ****, despite being loaded up with really good ST players. Mayo can’t allow that to go on, and will need to hold his coaching staff as accountable as he does the players.

If McCarthy ends up being a bust, the GM or coach won’t be affected by that for 2 years because he will possibly sit for a year anyway.

 

[mgteich]

Lazar's mock would be perfect - all hinges on Suamataia (OT from BYU) making it down to 34. Guy sounds like a beast. I saw another mock where he's taken at 31 so hope he slides.

If we make a non-OT at 3, we will need to move up from 34, unless we sign two starters in free agency.

 

[Nunchucks]

McCarthy is a day 2 pick and will sit for at least 1 year maybe 2.

He is inaccurate, made a living throwing to the TE and was in a very structured offense. You all are delusional

 

[rochrist]

McCarthy is a day 2 pick and will sit for at least 1 year maybe 2.

He is inaccurate, made a living throwing to the TE and was in a very structured offense. You all are delusional

His top two targets were WRs. And on 3rd and 6-10 he hit 75% of his passes for first downs.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Winner winner

Can't be better said

What's the point of stockpiling picks to move up and get your guy in a few years. When you can do it this year...free of charge.

We have to come out of this draft with a top QB. The question is when we're sitting at 3, and if Williams and Maye are gone, then does our staff see much of a difference between Daniels, McCarthy, and maybe even a Penix? If one stands out as a cut above, then take him. But if not, then trade down.

That said, trading down must be done very carefully because the teams picking at 4-5-7-9 do not need a QB and can still land a stud in this draft after trading down to a QB needy team (6-8-10-11-12 all need QB's unless some of them score a FA). Dropping down just to the Giants at #6 could be risky, meaning that only a trade down to 4/maybe 5 is safe.

 

[NFL Mystique]

We have to come out of this draft with a top QB. The question is when we're sitting at 3, and if Williams and Maye are gone, then does our staff see much of a difference between Daniels, McCarthy, and maybe even a Penix? If one stands out as a cut above, then take him. But if not, then trade down.

That said, trading down must be done very carefully because the teams picking at 4-5-7-9 do not need a QB and can still land a stud in this draft after trading down to a QB needy team (6-8-10-11-12 all need QB's unless some of them score a FA). Dropping down just to the Giants at #6 could be risky, meaning that only a trade down to 4/maybe 5 is safe.

I think trading down is too risky for what you just said.

No way they take Penix at three imo. That's way too high for him.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think trading down is too risky for what you just said.

No way they take Penix at three imo. That's way too high for him.

Add JJ McCarthy to that list and I think Pennix Jr is better right now.

 

[The Gr8est]

We have to come out of this draft with a top QB. The question is when we're sitting at 3, and if Williams and Maye are gone, then does our staff see much of a difference between Daniels, McCarthy, and maybe even a Penix? If one stands out as a cut above, then take him. But if not, then trade down.

That said, trading down must be done very carefully because the teams picking at 4-5-7-9 do not need a QB and can still land a stud in this draft after trading down to a QB needy team (6-8-10-11-12 all need QB's unless some of them score a FA). Dropping down just to the Giants at #6 could be risky, meaning that only a trade down to 4/maybe 5 is safe.

I like this NESN report that suggests that Wolf is a proponent of trading down and stockpiling picks.

With the draft being such an inexact science, the more high lottery tickets you can get the better, especially for a team that is not one player away.

Patriots Draft Rumors: Eliot Wolf Has This Goal As 'De Facto GM'

Eliot Wolf reportedly has a primary goal heading into his first draft as the New England Patriots' "de facto general manager."

nesn.com

 

[lancerman]

We have to come out of this draft with a top QB. The question is when we're sitting at 3, and if Williams and Maye are gone, then does our staff see much of a difference between Daniels, McCarthy, and maybe even a Penix? If one stands out as a cut above, then take him. But if not, then trade down.

That said, trading down must be done very carefully because the teams picking at 4-5-7-9 do not need a QB and can still land a stud in this draft after trading down to a QB needy team (6-8-10-11-12 all need QB's unless some of them score a FA). Dropping down just to the Giants at #6 could be risky, meaning that only a trade down to 4/maybe 5 is safe.

I wouldn't even trade down. If you are trading down to 6 because you think Daniels is at McCarthy or Penix level, you are still over drafting the **** out of whoever you get. Also the Giants are going to be looking for QB, they are down on Jones, so if they think Daniels is legit, all you did was take him off the board and let 4 or 5 snag MHJ. Which means you basically burned the 3rd at that point and lost out on the 3 highest graded QB's and the best player all for maybe an extra second and then you have to burn the 6th overall on Penix or McCarthy who aren't worth being drafted that high to begin with.

People are obsessed with the idea of getting a QB no matter who it is or trading down. Both of which aren't great philosophies. There's just not enough value and too much risk in trading down and there's too good of a get at 3 if you really aren't 100% sold on the QB.

To me this is simple. You either love the QB at 3 and grab him or you take MHJ. You can package a trade up to get Penix or McCarthy if you really want them later.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If we make a non-OT at 3, we will need to move up from 34, unless we sign two starters in free agency.

I don’t think so. I think you are going to see defensive players start rising into the 2nd half of the first round, displacing some of the offensive players that have been projected there to this point. I’m not opposed to them moving up for a Mims or Guyton, but I still think they can get really good OT or WR at #34. Pp

 

[Nunchucks]

His top two targets were WRs. And on 3rd and 6-10 he hit 75% of his passes for first downs.

Have you watched him play? I watched the entire Ohio game and came away fully unimpressed.

 

[lancerman]

Which QB?

You can win a SB with an elite QB and no MHJ. You won't win a SB with MHJ and a jag under center

There's 3 first round graded QB's in this draft. The Patriots will have the option to get the one that the other two passed on. That means they are not choosing their QB, they are deciding if what is there is worth taking. This is the same as when they got Mac at 15. There were 5 first round graded QB's. Patriots played passive and were content taking who was there.

Let's start at step 1. The Patriots are NOT winning the Super Bowl next year. They are a 4-13 team. This is not a team in a position to bounce back any time soon. This is a rebuild, not a reload. So anything they do needs to be viewed as a longterm investment. Getting a QB and not having good WR's like we have is also not a good fit if we are just going to hang the QB out to dry on a piece of **** offense again and let them lose confidence and have the fanbase turn on them because they aren't Tom Brady making chicken salad out of chicken ****.

WR is a position of need. It's a position the Patriots have struggled at since at least 2019, and since then even with Brady here the offense has suffered largely as a result of that. It's a position they haven't had right for a long time. It's a position that gets more and more important in the modern NFL as the years go on. This playoff was stacked with teams that had a premier pass catcher. This isn't 10 years ago. MHJ if drafted should be thought of as a longterm investment that you would be pairing with whoever the QB of the future ends up being. He's also someone that would address a critical issue on our offense as it stands today and would make the rest of the WR corp better.

You can't just wish that the right QB is in this draft and the Patriots should just accept whatever falls to them out of desperation when they have another play right in front of them.

 

[rochrist]

Have you watched him play? I watched the entire Ohio game and came away fully unimpressed.

Yes, I have.

 

[Nunchucks]

Yes, I have.

Okay, we just have different opinions. I think he will suck.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Agree completely. The worst case scenario for me is they end up picking 10th next year, and then have to give up 3 first round picks to move up for a top QB because they didn’t take one at 3 this year. So while people talk about “ the haul” they can get trading out, they don’t seem to consider “ the haul” they may have to give up to go back up to get their QB. So I would rather see them take the risk of drafting the QB at 3, than to pass on them and end up having to give away multiple first rounders to fix that later.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the context of a lot people suggesting to trade down. You're just throwing out a generic "take the risk of drafting the QB at 3". The team is going to attach actual analysis and scouting reports to that risk though. They shouldn't just take a QB at 3 if they don't see it in the scouting report. Taking any QB would be a risk for sure, but it's not going in blind or without even trying to analyze and evaluate first.

If they don't see it with a QB at #3, I'd rather move back and get a haul even if I just have to give that haul back up to move up next year. Because at least that would presumably be a guy they did like.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the context of a lot people suggesting to trade down. You're just throwing out a generic "take the risk of drafting the QB at 3". The team is going to attach actual analysis and scouting reports to that risk though. They shouldn't just take a QB at 3 if they don't see it in the scouting report. Taking any QB would be a risk for sure, but it's not going in blind or without even trying to analyze and evaluate first.

If they don't see it with a QB at #3, I'd rather move back and get a haul even if I just have to give that haul back up to move up next year. Because at least that would presumably be a guy they did like.

It’s not reasonable for me or anyone else to expect you to know where I stand on this from just this thread, but myself and many others who want the QB at 3 have all qualified that by stating that the Patriots have to believe they are worth the pick to take him, as most don’t expect them to take any player they don’t believe in. I have also qualified my concept of taking a QB, or any other player in the first round with the expectation that you want them to have an All Pro ceiling. So at this point when we are having these debates it is taken as a given, with the exception of those who want to play ******** games, that the Patriots have to believe in the ceiling of the QB in the first round, or they shouldn’t take them. In my opinion there are 3 franchise QB’s in this draft, and I see McCarthy as a bigger project, and riskier pick, but believe he could have the ceiling needed to be worth a first round pick. I don’t believe Penix or Nix have an All Pro ceiling, so I wouldn’t use a first round pick on them. The Patriots and the rest of the NFL have much more information on them, but that’s my take.


The argument against taking the QB at 3 is usually that the patriots can “ get a haul” for that pick. And while that is probably true it begs the question of why another franchise, or multiple franchises are willing to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player the Patriots don’t believe is worth a single first round pick? The other problem with that argument is that if the Patriots take “ the haul,” but end up still looking for a franchise QB in the future drafts, then the likelihood is that they will end up having to give that same haul back to get up high enough to get their franchise QB then.

The other arguments for not taking the QB at 3 are that Harrison or Alt are higher rated prospects, but the Patriots are at rock bottom, and not only can you get those high quality WR’s and OT’s in top ten’s of most drafts, but you can’t do that at QB, And the truth of the matter is that no one can name a championship team that was built around a generational WR or OT, and every team the Patriots are going to have to get past in the current AFC is built around a franchise QB that was drafted in the first round. Building around a franchise QB is the best way to build a contender. It’s not a guarantee, because you still have to do many other things right as well, but it is the surest path available.

So that’s where I stand as far as this debate goes.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The argument against taking the QB at 3 is usually that the patriots can “ get a haul” for that pick. And while that is probably true it begs the question of why another franchise, or multiple franchises are willing to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player the Patriots don’t believe is worth a single first round pick?

We see the bolded all the time. This one is fairly obvious and needs to be taken off the list. Unless I'm reading this totally wrong.

Teams are wrong a lot. They evaluate prospects differently. Gamble for different reasons. See things others don't.

How did it work out for the 49ers? I doubt the Panthers are feeling good after the move they made for Young. These arevad recent as you can get. I believe the Chargers traded up for Ryan Leaf. So did the Colts for George. There are plenty of other examples all over the place.

For the most part, I agree with you as far as the QB position is concerned. It's not an easy process though.