Interesting BB nuggets from Rapoport

[Ring 6]

It is well known at this point the main reason Brady ended up here is **** Rehbein. The main reason Bill won 6 super bowls is because a quarterbacks coach championed the drafting of Tom Brady.

So Brady is now the only player in the history of the sport that the position coaches opinion is the only reason for the pick and the person who picked him did nothing?
Then how do you give belichick blame for the picks you don’t like?

 

[archstanton543]

Why would you ever assume he was UNwilling to listen to criticism or self evaluate.
He is the most successful HC/GM in the history of the sport. Why do you start from an assumption that he is closed minded, ignorant and unaware?

That's what happens to people when they've been a positions like his for a long time. The people around him are all people he brought up through the organization (or in some cases are related to him). Even if BB says "Now, if you see a mistake I've made, let me know" the people around him won't or will be reluctant to deferring to his longevity and gratefulness for their jobs.

 

[upstater1]

That's my point. It's not about quantity. Hell, put me in the draft room and I can get you quantity.

I responded to someone who said not enough resources were spent. Don't change the subject

 

[upstater1]

I don't mind Bill taking some chances, but there's a big difference between taking a flier on a 6th round QB and a first round WR.

He didn't take a flyer on Harry though. Go back and look at the mock of mocks. Harry was slated to go BEFORE the Patriots drafted him according to all the amateurs who do this kind of thing. The board was 955 positive in the post draft thread (not that it means anything). Harry definitely was not a flyer

 

[A Defiant Goose]

It is well known at this point the main reason Brady ended up here is **** Rehbein. The main reason Bill won 6 super bowls is because a quarterbacks coach championed the drafting of Tom Brady.

So Brady is now the only player in the history of the sport that the position coaches opinion is the only reason for the pick and the person who picked him did nothing?
Then how do you give belichick blame for the picks you don’t like?

Arguing on the internet in a nutshell.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'd be happy with Jim Harbaugh but early indications are he's going to the Raiders.

 

[203Pat]

So Brady is now the only player in the history of the sport that the position coaches opinion is the only reason for the pick and the person who picked him did nothing?
Then how do you give belichick blame for the picks you don’t like?

Show me where I said "only".

 

[203Pat]

You're making my point people liked when BB ignored scouts in favor Rehbein but vilify him for ignoring scouts with Harry.

My point is each side seems to cherry pick names and instances where Bill listened to scouts or didn't and then use it to make a point. Where I stand is it's all Bill. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

I give Bill credit for seeing something in Brady to carry a 4th QB and then start him over the $100 million dollar guy. Bill deserves credit for picking guys like Seymour (when I wanted David Terrell) or gambling on Gronk, letting Butler walk for Gilmore, and trading for Randy Moss. He should get credit for what he has done here.

On the flip side I blame Bill for the lack of success here post-Brady. The Brady divorce, the bad drafts, free agent whiffs, undisciplined and sloppy play, the Patrica experiment, a complete regression on offense, and now completely bottoming out. Each year post-Brady it gets harder and harder to ignore Bill's track record without the greatest quarterback of all time. I appreciate what he's done but he can't get a lifetime pass based on that.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't mind Bill taking some chances, but there's a big difference between taking a flier on a 6th round QB and a first round WR.

I'm not a draft guy so I don't know how big a flier it was but I'm just talking about process here and its Bill's job to take the info the scouts are giving and combine it with his own and that of his other coaches.

 

[Joey007]

I’ve been in the move on from Bill camp.

But my exception to that rule is if it means replacing him with McDaniels. Just keep Bill at that point.

 

[mike_usagisan]

He didn't take a flyer on Harry though. Go back and look at the mock of mocks. Harry was slated to go BEFORE the Patriots drafted him according to all the amateurs who do this kind of thing. The board was 955 positive in the post draft thread (not that it means anything). Harry definitely was not a flyer

I assume it was some degree of sour apples, but leading up to the 2021 the reports were that his scouting department liked other WRs better, but Bill overruled them based on his personal workout and meeting with Harry's coach. That's what led to the whole media thing about him needing to listen to the scouts more leading up to the 2021 draft.

But the question becomes, if Kraft wants to take away personnel responsibilities from Bill, does he trust the guys running the pro and college personnel departments to make better decisions or does he need to replace them with a new GM?

 

[signbabybrady]

My point is each side seems to cherry pick names and instances where Bill listened to scouts or didn't and then use it to make a point. Where I stand is it's all Bill. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

I give Bill credit for seeing something in Brady to carry a 4th QB and then start him over the $100 million dollar guy. Bill deserves credit for picking guys like Seymour (when I wanted David Terrell) or gambling on Gronk, letting Butler walk for Gilmore, and trading for Randy Moss. He should get credit for what he has done here.

On the flip side I blame Bill for the lack of success here post-Brady. The Brady divorce, the bad drafts, free agent whiffs, undisciplined and sloppy play, the Patrica experiment, a complete regression on offense, and now completely bottoming out. Each year post-Brady it gets harder and harder to ignore Bill's track record without the greatest quarterback of all time. I appreciate what he's done but he can't get a lifetime pass based on that.

Man I agree with almost everything you said he deserves credit for good the bad and the ugly except I diverge at the end as I still think if he gets the QB right this time he's too good not to get right back into contention. One of his biggest uglies is the choice of Mac but I Think with a top 5 pick any one of the 3 Williams, Maye, or Daniels could be that guy and I don't want to hold Mac against these kids and I just think any one of the three will be lucky to get Bill instead of random coach X.

 

[Ring 6]

That's what happens to people when they've been a positions like his for a long time. The people around him are all people he brought up through the organization (or in some cases are related to him). Even if BB says "Now, if you see a mistake I've made, let me know" the people around him won't or will be reluctant to deferring to his longevity and gratefulness for their jobs.

You are making that up. You have zero evidence at all that he operates that way. You are just making up a story you wish was true.

 

[archstanton543]

You are making that up. You have zero evidence at all that he operates that way. You are just making up a story you wish was true.

Nope. I'm basing that on people in similar situations. I've seen it happen in real life first-hand.

A good example of this happening is with the Star Wars prequels. George Lucas, at that point in his career, surrounded himself with people who wouldn't tell him no. Which led to those movies being crap. You can see in the behind the scenes documentaries of his underlings looking at each other with skepticism and doubt but they never spoke up.

The same is true, I think based on what I've seen reported and the results on the field, with BB. The small coaching staff, nepotism, failure to adapt.

 

[TheRainMaker]

He didn't take a flyer on Harry though. Go back and look at the mock of mocks. Harry was slated to go BEFORE the Patriots drafted him according to all the amateurs who do this kind of thing. The board was 955 positive in the post draft thread (not that it means anything). Harry definitely was not a flyer

The reason he was mocked higher was because it was expected that teams were going to draft WR’s early as it was rated the best WR classes in some time. While Harry was mocked a 1st rounder, most mocks had him going after Hollywood Brown, Metcalf, Samuel and AJ Brown.

The broadcasts were thrown off he was the 2nd WR taken before the others above.

 

[PatsFan2]

The reason he was mocked higher was because it was expected that teams were going to draft WR’s early as it was rated the best WR classes in some time. While Harry was mocked a 1st rounder, most mocks had him going after Hollywood Brown, Metcalf, Samuel and AJ Brown.

The broadcasts were thrown off he was the 2nd WR taken before the others above.

That^ is one reason why I want BB Gone my love for a Great WR on the Patriots. He could have visited the Draft Forum in 2019 and get our WR situation right Harry was the WORSE FIT and Boney T was OVERADRAFTED LAST YEAR!

 

[signbabybrady]

Nope. I'm basing that on people in similar situations. I've seen it happen in real life first-hand.

A good example of this happening is with the Star Wars prequels. George Lucas, at that point in his career, surrounded himself with people who wouldn't tell him no. Which led to those movies being crap. You can see in the behind the scenes documentaries of his underlings looking at each other with skepticism and doubt but they never spoke up.

The same is true, I think based on what I've seen reported and the results on the field, with BB. The small coaching staff, nepotism, failure to adapt.

I liked the prequels.

And if we are going to use Star Wars as an example the new regime gave use 7,8,9 so I want BB back.

 

[RIpats88]

He didn't take a flyer on Harry though. Go back and look at the mock of mocks. Harry was slated to go BEFORE the Patriots drafted him according to all the amateurs who do this kind of thing. The board was 955 positive in the post draft thread (not that it means anything). Harry definitely was not a flyer

The scouts still told him not to draft harry and instead take Aj brown. And he ignored them.

That much is fact. It was after that draft Kraft said it would be a more “collaborative effort” unfortunately the drafts haven’t gotten much better

 

[203Pat]

Man I agree with almost everything you said he deserves credit for good the bad and the ugly except I diverge at the end as I still think if he gets the QB right this time he's too good not to get right back into contention. One of his biggest uglies is the choice of Mac but I Think with a top 5 pick any one of the 3 Williams, Maye, or Daniels could be that guy and I don't want to hold Mac against these kids and I just think any one of the three will be lucky to get Bill instead of random coach X.

My main issue is that Mac actually regressed under Bill and the fact that Bill didn't do everything he could to help Mac succeed. A lot of it stems from the fact he seemingly doesn't seem to respect (understand?) modern offensive football. Bill is still building an offense like he has Brady and in addition is poorly evaluating offensive talent.

I know people thought I was crazy this offseason when I said that I didn't view Juju as an upgrade over Jakobi but it's blatantly obvious Bill bungled that situation. In addition he hasn't swung for the fences to get Mac a true number one receiver which has been the formula for success for so many young quarterbacks.

Bill has also completely botched the guard and tackle situation the last few years. He created holes at guard by trading Mason, letting Thuney walk (after that ridiculous use of the franchise tag), and then decreasing the offer to Karras after badly miscalculating his market. Then to add insult to injury he drafts a guard in the first round and that guard isn't even all that good. Pair the mess at guard with the disaster at tackle last season swapping Wynn (in a contract year), and Brown (who just signed for RT money) and having them both become malcontents. This year what did at tackle is just flat out negligence. Reily Reiff, who immediately was moved to guard in the summer, and Calvin "Does he even exist?" Anderson were going to protect our already close to broken quaterback?

If Bill went out and swung a trade for AJ Brown (or drafted him in the first place), Tyreek Hill, or even Calvin Ridley or Brandin Cooks (or even signed Deandre Hopkins) and Mac still failed then I would give him more benefit of the doubt. Instead he let, what would be a solid number 2, in Jakobi Meyers walk and swapped him out with a broken down Juju Smith-Schuster and doubled down on an oft-injured subpar Devante Parker and called it a day. Brady could make JAGs like these guys work but Mac and whomever the next guy is will be lightyears away from being Tom Brady so it is time to change the philosophy and Bill just isn't going to do that in his 50th year as a coach.

 

[upstater1]

The scouts still told him not to draft harry and instead take Aj brown. And he ignored them.

That much is fact. It was after that draft Kraft said it would be a more “collaborative effort” unfortunately the drafts haven’t gotten much better

They're drafting 3 good players every year.

That's pretty good, no? Even with misses on Tyquan and Mac Jones.

2020: Onwenu, Uche, Jennings, Dugger
2021: Barmore, Rham
2022: Strange, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Zappe
2023: Gonzalez, White, Sow, Douglas, could be up to 8 when all is said and done.