10 things I think most of us can agree on at the bye

[ctpatsfan77]

7. Bill must go, period. I'd love to see it happen harmoniously, in a way which benefits the team but takes Bill's feelings and the debt we owe him into account - but it must happen. It's over.

8. Yep. Doesn't matter though. If Bill has declined to the point he is not able to fill his role, as I believe he has, he has to go, whatever the subsequent challenges might be. We must be realistic: it will take at least two years to get this utterly failed team back into any sort of order. So it goes. Buckle up. There will be headwinds and weird twisteroos. Could be fun.

I disagree on these two. As I've said before, he can't have final say over the roster. If he's unwilling to accept that, then, yes, there needs to be a "conscious uncoupling."

I also don't think it's guaranteed to take that long to get this team back on the right track. This team is where it is in large part because of the confluence of [not adequately addressing the RT situation] + {brutal luck on injuries] + [having to play Vederian Lowe].

This offseason, they'll have a top pick and the most cap room over the next three years to work with. If they commit to doing a better job on acquiring offensive talent, they can be competitive next year. Hell, even with all the problems, they've still been competitive in most of their games this season.

 

[venecol]

A few thoughts (only about 400 words) heading into the bye.

1. Losing Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, and Matt Judon to injuries absolutely sucks. Having them probably wouldn't make this a winning team, but at least it'd make them more enjoyable to watch.

2. Pop Douglas is electric, and they need to find more ways to get the ball in his hands.

3. The team needs to move on from Mac Jones this offseason. We can (and almost certainly will) continue to debate how much of it is Jones' fault and how much is Belichick's/the team's fault. But that doesn't change the fact that he's just not going to succeed here. His contract is cheap enough ($2.5M salary next year, for which NE is currently on the hook) that there's a chance to get a draft pick for him.

4. The odds are remote that next year's starting QB is currently on the roster. We'll almost certainly be debating who that person should be for the next 6 months.

5. This team doesn't have enough talent on offense. This is essentially entirely Belichick's fault, since he has final say over the roster.

6. The constant drain on coaching talent has now reached critical mass. It's amazing how many coaches this team has lost, especially on the offensive side, since 2018: Ernie Adams, Dante Scarnecchia, and Ivan Fears are all major losses, and Josh McDaniels took multiple assistants with him when he left. [Admittedly, the loss of Patricia is addition by subtraction, but his incompetence is a factor in the current mess.]

7. One way or another, Belichick's time as HC of the NYP is nearly over. I don't think the Krafts want to fire him, for two reasons: (1) they don't want to pay him big bucks to not coach, and (2) they want to give him the same type of sendoff they're going to give Brady next year.

8. Change is scary. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. We all want to get back to watching the Patriots win playoff games ASAP, but there's no guarantee that if the Patriots replace Belichick, the next guy will do that, either.

9. Change is also necessary. The critical question is how much. Belichick built a flawed roster and botched Jones' development. Do the Krafts trust him to correct those issues enough to give him a second chance, or do they move on to someone new (whether Mayo or someone else)?

10. No matter what, the JEST still suck.

No, no, no, no, no. You were doing fine. You had been courteous and receptive to courtesy. You had established trust with the embarrasing truth about Migs. Now this ham handed segway into your questionaire, it won't do.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No, no, no, no, no. You were doing fine. You had been courteous and receptive to courtesy. You had established trust with the embarrasing truth about Migs. Now this ham handed segway into your questionaire, it won't do.

I don't know what you mean by ham-handed. I'm simply acknowledging the fact that, as I said, (A) change is scary, and (B) we just don't know what the effect of replacing Belichick will be, anymore than we know for sure that any given QB is going to work out.

 

[venecol]

I don't know what you mean by ham-handed. I'm simply acknowledging the fact that, as I said, (A) change is scary, and (B) we just don't know what the effect of replacing Belichick will be, anymore than we know for sure that any given QB is going to work out.

Just kidding. But seriously, there's no need to be scared. There's a ton of young talented assistants out there. Guys that can relate to the younger generation and run modern football programs. Look at some of the recent HC hires: Taylor, Sirianni, O'Connell, McDaniel, DeMeco Ryans, etc. They're all doing well.

I'm more worried about finding the right GM. That's the key to the success of the rebuild. Acquiring talent is priority #1.

 

[denverpatsfan]

How Dare You!!!!

 

[mgteich]

but thats the problem. at best this is a .500 team with .500 talent on offense.

if you are happy with us being a .500 team the rest of Bill's career playing 90's style football fine...

I strongly disagree.
For you, if we have average (50-50) talent on Offense and a top Defense and ST's, then we are a 50% team.

 

[mgteich]

1. Yep

2.Yep

3. "The team needs to move on from Mac Jones this offseason." I understand the impulse, and your point is likely to hold true as the process unfolds, but we are under no compulsion to move on from Mac during the rest of the season, and we do not yet know know what exactly our qb situation will be as we work through the off season. So, Though I think the point is right, we need not act on it now and should not, given we do not know what conditions will be when we genuinely must act.

4. Yep, basically.

5. The main point, it seems to me. The importance of this aspect of the situation makes action on this our first priority. We cannot have Bill entitled to any but purely pro forma input on roster matters. If ditching the GM means we lose HC, so be it. There has been decline in that role as well. Would any rational person call this a well-coached team"?

6. Absolutely.

7. Bill must go, period. I'd love to see it happen harmoniously, in a way which benefits the team but takes Bill's feelings and the debt we owe him into account - but it must happen. It's over.

8. Yep. Doesn't matter though. If Bill has declined to the point he is not able to fill his role, as I believe he has, he has to go, whatever the subsequent challenges might be. We must be realistic: it will take at least two years to get this utterly failed team back into any sort of order. So it goes. Buckle up. There will be headwinds and weird twisteroos. Could be fun.

9. Absolutely.

10. Correct. The very nature of reality ensures this will ever be so.

Your #3 comments on Mac are quite true. We have little idea with regard to his being on the team in 2024. There are a lot of variables. let us say that we cannot get one of the top two QB's? Of course, we would draft one and sign a mid-level veteran. Depending on the new coach(es), we might keep Jones as our #3. We might even keep him as a now and future #2.

We currently are truly screwed at QB, and serviceable QB's are hard to find in the draft or in free agency. Besides, a draft might take 2-3 years to develop, It was negligence not to have signed a serviceable backup like Minchew last off-season. I suppose, I can eat my words if Zappe goes 4-3 over the remainder of the season. We SHOULD be sure. The obvious danger is having no QB and signing the 5th year option as insurance.

 

[venecol]

If you watch the film, and let’s just say today, Washington and LV. And you had an average QB in there, just making the right decision and making the easy throws, those games are all wins. Let’s not even include the games his pick 6s and other ints put us in a hole and lee to beatings. Maybe this team isn’t a playoff team with an average QB but it’s a .500 team. I don’t think that’s disputable if you review the film. And that is also not taking account for the severe number of injuries.

In The Last 6 Games, if the Pats played better, team could've gone 4-2 or even 5-1.

 

[mgteich]

In The Last 6 Games, if the Pats played better, team could've gone 4-2 or even 5-1.

Let's not over-state. I agree with Andy. If we had an average QB, we would be at 500 with a chance at the playoffs. Of course, you are only over-stating a bit,

I do think that injuries to Gonzo, Judon, Ekuale and Bourne would still have made a playoff run difficult.

 

[venecol]

Let's not over-state. I agree with Andy. If we had an average QB, we would be at 500 with a chance at the playoffs. Of course, you are only over-stating a bit,

I do think that injuries to Gonzo, Judon, Ekuale and Bourne would still have made a playoff run difficult.

Andy actually started a thread where he said we could go 4-2 or even 5-1 in the last 6 games because we were playing bad teams.

 

[mgteich]

Andy actually started a thread where he said we could go 4-2 or even 5-1 in the last 6 games because we were playing bad teams.

fair enough

For me, that would require
1) A brain transplant for Mac Jones.
2) Klemm and Trent Brown being healthy.
3) Good play from Juju and perhaps some help from Boutte.

I'm with Andy. I don't think that we are that far away, not now, and not after we re-sign all of our free agents.

 

[Lavictoire]

Yes, the coaches took Brady for granted. They undervalued the guy who was not the best athlete but had clutch in his genes and a rare unflagging drive to succeed. Just the lengths he took to care for his body led to his longevity and unparalleled success.

 

[Guts]

Yes, the coaches took Brady for granted. They undervalued the guy who was not the best athlete but had clutch in his genes and a rare unflagging drive to succeed. Just the lengths he took to care for his body led to his longevity and unparalleled success.

His leadership is also vastly underestimated
Tampa players all said there was a big shift in accountability once Brady entered the building

 

[1960Pats]

I want to see BB and O'Brien get a shot with a different QB and an upgraded OL.

There are 31 other teams with different QBs and OL. Hopefully Bill will pick one of those teams.

As we've known for some time Bill's bloated ego had him thinking that he could win with just anyone as the QB, even though he either knew or should have known how special Brady was. That egotistical dope dumped Brady simply to prove a point and the team has been paying for it ever since.

Bill Belichick cannot be dumped fast enough for me, but I have a sneaky feeling that he isn't going anywhere. Bob likes money more than wins.

 

[PP2]

7. One way or another, Belichick's time as HC of the NYP is nearly over. I don't think the Krafts want to fire him, for two reasons: (1) they don't want to pay him big bucks to not coach, and (2) they want to give him the same type of sendoff they're going to give Brady next year.

New York Patriots???

 

[1960Pats]

Andy actually started a thread where he said we could go 4-2 or even 5-1 in the last 6 games because we were playing bad teams.

He also had rave reviews for O'Brien the Savior, even though he's been nothing special ever.

 

[1960Pats]

New York Patriots???

It's bad enough, as OTG once noted, that they stole the name Yankee from us.
How about we give them Belichick instead. He could go to his favorite team.

 

[farn]

On the other hand….

…we could be Bills fans. They were celebrating an ascension in the AFCE and were going to dominate it for years. Now they can’t line up on a FG attempt vs one of the league’s doormats and they fall to 5-5 (at home) after achieving - two years ago - the lofty heights of « losing the game to GET to the SB ».

 

[stcjones]

1. Yep

2.Yep

3. "The team needs to move on from Mac Jones this offseason." I understand the impulse, and your point is likely to hold true as the process unfolds, but we are under no compulsion to move on from Mac during the rest of the season, and we do not yet know know what exactly our qb situation will be as we work through the off season. So, Though I think the point is right, we need not act on it now and should not, given we do not know what conditions will be when we genuinely must act.

4. Yep, basically.

5. The main point, it seems to me. The importance of this aspect of the situation makes action on this our first priority. We cannot have Bill entitled to any but purely pro forma input on roster matters. If ditching the GM means we lose HC, so be it. There has been decline in that role as well. Would any rational person call this a well-coached team"?

6. Absolutely.

7. Bill must go, period. I'd love to see it happen harmoniously, in a way which benefits the team but takes Bill's feelings and the debt we owe him into account - but it must happen. It's over.

8. Yep. Doesn't matter though. If Bill has declined to the point he is not able to fill his role, as I believe he has, he has to go, whatever the subsequent challenges might be. We must be realistic: it will take at least two years to get this utterly failed team back into any sort of order. So it goes. Buckle up. There will be headwinds and weird twisteroos. Could be fun.

9. Absolutely.

10. Correct. The very nature of reality ensures this will ever be so.

Great post ….Bill and “his family” need to go…..he’s had four years since Brady left to prove he can coach and win without Tom….he’s failed miserably. Just keeping the sham Newton experiment going through that abysmal season in 2020 would have gotten most coaches fired. Need to start fresh with a new dynamic offensively minded HC and great coordinators ….time to open the purse strings Bob to bring in top tier talent players….welcome to the new NFL!!

 

[stcjones]

There are 31 other teams with different QBs and OL. Hopefully Bill will pick one of those teams.

As we've known for some time Bill's bloated ego had him thinking that he could win with just anyone as the QB, even though he either knew or should have known how special Brady was. That egotistical dope dumped Brady simply to prove a point and the team has been paying for it ever since.

Bill Belichick cannot be dumped fast enough for me, but I have a sneaky feeling that he isn't going anywhere. Bob likes money more than wins.

Very well said