Some OL chatter

[captain stone]

David Andrews, Trent Brown have taken ownership of Patriots’ struggling O-line

New England’s veterans are stepping up.

www.patspulpit.com

Words.

 

[upstater1]

Karras played really well here. he also played both G positions, and C if called on. he was very capable and dependable. he left at 28 years old for essentially $6m apy. they are paying Reiff $5m.

Shaq was playing at a pro bowl level and is at approx $9m apy. he was also 28 years old when he left. his snap counts have been in the high 90's every season. the team kept Wynn at $10m.

Hjalte Froholdt is playing C at a very high level. the team drafted a C this year in the 3rd rd.

the decision making and forward thinking the past 3-5 seasons has been very un Patriot like

I agree with every one of those Patriot decisions. Karras was not going to play center here, so he would've been a guard. But he's the slowest guard we've ever had. Every attempt to pull on a running oplay left a big gap to run through for defenders. It was painful. As a center he was passable.

Shaq has bounced from team to team now and he's on minimum contracts. Clearly not a good player anymore.

Why not criticize Belichick for letting Thuney go? Choosing Shaq and his contract over Thuney was a huge mistake.

 

[RIpats88]

The regression of some of the vets is puzzling and disappointing as well.

Has to be coaching right? I mean Trent brown didn't even bother to block on some of the plays I've seen.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Words.

YEP .... EXACTLY.

 

[p8ryts]

yes, we understand that your are much more skilled as a drafter than those that work for the patriots.

Most posters on this site can only regurgitate about past mistakes and Tom Brady's greatness. There have been mistakes and Brady was great but it sure gets tiresome.

 

[State]

When I look at this offensive line, Vederian Lowe, Atonio Mafi, Calvin Anderson and Sidy Sow don’t look like starting-caliber players. That leaves you with Trent Brown at left tackle, David Andrews at center, Mike Onwenu at right guard and maybe — maybe — Cole Strange at left guard if he ever gets healthy.

~ Doug Kyed in the Herald, 10/13/23

 

[captain stone]

~ Doug Kyed in the Herald, 10/13/23

I still wanna see Siddy the Sow tried at LEFT Guard to take advantage of his athleticism before I pass final judgement on his suckiness. The OL was so ****ing MIS-handled during TC & pre-season it wasn't even ****ing funny.

 

[State]

The OL was so ****ing MIS-handled during TC & pre-season it wasn't even ****ing funny.

It’s true. And it’s a carryover from last year.

Bring back Cole Popovich. Yates is a waste of space. Klemm has only proved to be an outstanding recruiter at Oregon. Ship his ass back where he can Jerry Maguire recruits in their living room.

What’s going on with the Patriots OL has been disgraceful. It alone justifies dismissal of Belichick. A better coach would not have tolerated the clown show. Parcells for example.

 

[VrabelJr]

The regression of some of the vets is puzzling and disappointing as well.

Has to be coaching right? I mean Trent brown didn't even bother to block on some of the plays I've seen.

That's a career long problem wtih him. How do you think we got him for cheap all those years ago?

 

[PowerRunRevival]

They need to invest in a top of the market tackle in the draft or free agency next year. This line is bad. Pats could use two new tackles. I like the Pats guards long term but injuries are costing Strange and Onwenu so far, the players who have shuffled in at guard haven't been very good. I'd love to see them eventually move Onwenu back to RT.

It would be really helpful if one of the rookies offensive lineman to break through before the end of the year. I thought Sow looked good before he got hurt.

It's very frustrating that it was an obvious need this season and they really failed to address it. So much could be improved on the line by adding a franchise left tackle.

 

[long distance]

people seem to forget the personnel is almost the same except Wynn isn't the RT anymore but he wasn't good at RT
this year is actually strange's second year where you would expect some progress compared to his rookie season
so with almost the same personnel 4 out of 5, why is the performance this much worse? What changed?
Some people really want to fit their narrative and don't look at facts (Tunescribe). The coaching this year isn't any better than last year, it really sucks at all kinds of levels OC, o-Line Coach, WR Coach

While i agree coaching on O is a problem (and is for some time) which could be expected with all the inbreeding going on . not even Dante would be able to save the poor/criminal handling of the roster esp. on OL.

Maybe the personnel looks the same to people who play on paper (and tons here were doing it all summer) but you need to look at the reality -
and in reality only 2 players Brown & Andrews are the same.
Onwenu had a surgery, it was reported he might not be fully ready by the start of the season so expecting the same guy that was in top of his form last year was very naive. Rushing him only made situation worse.
Strange also missed almost entire TC to injury - rushed in visibly physically not ready.
So not only these two are physically not the same as last year, they are also not glued in - the again in this OL cluster**** nobody is.
As for RT there is a big difference in Wynn - proven NFL caliber tackle playing bad - or non NFL ready player playing bad. Look at Miam f.e.

So maybe OL looks similar by the names, but the individual player situation not to mention all important group dynamics couldnt be more different.

All of this could be expected (or at least anticipated) - they chose to address it the way they did - with a bunch of non NFL ready players and now they justly reap what they sowed.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

While i agree coaching on O is a problem (and is for some time) which could be expected with all the inbreeding going on . not even Dante would be able to save the poor/criminal handling of the roster esp. on OL.

Maybe the personnel looks the same to people who play on paper (and tons here were doing it all summer) but you need to look at the reality -
and in reality only 2 players Brown & Andrews are the same.
Onwenu had a surgery, it was reported he might not be fully ready by the start of the season so expecting the same guy that was in top of his form last year was very naive. Rushing him only made situation worse.
Strange also missed almost entire TC to injury - rushed in visibly physically not ready.
So not only these two are physically not the same as last year, they are also not glued in - the again in this OL cluster**** nobody is.
As for RT there is a big difference in Wynn - proven NFL caliber tackle playing bad - or non NFL ready player playing bad. Look at Miam f.e.

So maybe OL looks similar by the names, but the individual player situation not to mention all important group dynamics couldnt be more different.

All of this could be expected (or at least anticipated) - they chose to address it the way they did - with a bunch of non NFL ready players and now they justly reap what they sowed.

i absolutely hated the lack of urgency and overall lack of moves regarding the offense line in free agency
the players they added late via trade (Lowe and the other) are scrubs. Then you have a bunch of new rookies who always need time to adjust to NFL Level so you can't really count on them from the start either. I like that they added a O-Line coach altghough i have my doubts Klemm is a good coach
I hope they will adress this next year aggressively via draft and FA
The Lions offense is a perfect example of an offense where a really good O-Line evalutes the overall offense to a next Level

 

[long distance]

ok, some random pictures - less than 2s time - randomly taken from highlights reel - which means this is majority of the time

1.

 

[long distance]

here after just 1s - and its always 3rd and long - you cant play like that

 

[long distance]

On a rare occasion with a fraction of more time ..





.. 3rd down conversion albeit with no easy throw between 3 defenders:

 

[long distance]

And here f.e. Tua - average but ok line, top skills



after 2s - 2 open with clear time to throw ...



at 3s 3 guys clearly open for 1st down

 

[long distance]

wanna run the ball? Heres what Pats OL gives you on the regular - brick wall pushed well behind LOS



and here Miami feat. Isaiah Wynn - open spaces

 

[AQPE]

Count the number of Giants in the box and then rushing the passer on the pass play versus the number of Saints rushing the passer against the Pats. Then do the same comparison of the running plays. The Pats give the defense no reason to think they’ll be able open holes to run or pass block for enough time to be allow Jones to find anyone open, their receivers aren’t getting separation, and Mac Jones panics and makes poor decisions.

I don’t see this being fixed by replacing Jones with Cunningham. Especially with Douglas out.

 

[State]

Belichick judged that we needed to bring in Mafi to at least compete with Hines. Mafi won the spot. It was really that simple.

I stopped reading after “Belichick judged…”

 

[captain stone]

I stopped reading after “Belichick judged…”

I wouldn't have that clueless old has-been judge the Best Baking Contest at the Topsfield Fair.