Dynasty Era Culture & Media schtick the one area I think Belichick firing would win.

[Steve102]

While I agree with the sentiment, and agree with you on BB's legacy with this team, as we all know in sports it's what have you done for me lately?
Belichick assembled this current roster and staff and he has to take ownership for what is currently happenning. We lived through an unpresidented era of success and expectations are now alot higher than in the pre-super bowl era of the Patriots.
The product and play we are seeing now is a total embarrasment and fans are frustrated.
To simply keep putting inferior talent on the field, and saying "we have to do better" after every loss keeps piling up just doesn't cut it.

Something has got to give and it may be time to move on from BB. I think that is what alot of people are saying.

It's not that we don't love and appreciate everything Belichick has acomplished with the Patriots, it's just we seem to be going backwards under him now.

It's a long way from embarrassment. Miles. Now, if they continue to lose 38-3, then sure, it's an embarrassment. Right now, it's one game, trending in the wrong direction. Everyone affiliated with that organization should get a lot of slack to turn it around. They have turned it around before. We get into November and we are talking about 2-6, with more 35 point losses, then sure, it's going to be much more crystal clear that changes need to be made.

 

[Brotherblues]

I go back and forth on it, but I remember Bill spending plenty (at the time) for Jonnu Smith and Algohur. I don't think it's that Bill doesn't value elite receivers, it's just that none have been available in the last three or so years. The Hill trade was ridiculous compensation from a team that had multiple 1sts and the some say that Brown would have refused to come here with the Eagles in the mix. I'm hoping for Higgins to come available and us to use all that cap on him.

This exactly. I've kept playing this scenario in my head for a while. It's easy to look at our salary numbers and say "we should have spent 20M on a stud instead of dividing that between Jonnu and Jagholor." But true stud WRs don't make it to FA these days. Would have needed to trade for Brown or Hill, or trade into the top 10 of the draft for a Waddle or Chase.

And I don't think Higgins is a stud #1. Very good, yes, but not someone who'd elevate Mac a whole tier.

 

[mike_usagisan]

This exactly. I've kept playing this scenario in my head for a while. It's easy to look at our salary numbers and say "we should have spent 20M on a stud instead of dividing that between Jonnu and Jagholor." But true stud WRs don't make it to FA these days. Would have needed to trade for Brown or Hill, or trade into the top 10 of the draft for a Waddle or Chase.

And I don't think Higgins is a stud #1. Very good, yes, but not someone who'd elevate Mac a whole tier.

Yeah, I just know he had great stats while Chase was out and he's the closest thing to a stud that we might have a shot at, unless we want to try to get Adams from Las Vegas. But I think he'd hate playing with Mac and I don't know if he'd tolerate playing with a high draft pick QB.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I agree. Which is a big part of the reason as to why I don't think Mac Jones should be a part of the team's future.

At this point they should go full Bill Pollian and lose them all, draft a QB in the first round, and let Jones walk after 24’.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry, but certainly with respect to his GM responsibilities, he is no longer "that man," if he ever was. As for losing the coach, while I would like to see him stay on in that role for a while longer, I no longer regard him as "irreplacable" in that job either. The league has changed and in worrisome respects, Bill has not. In other equally worrisome ways, he has, for the worse.

Everyone Coach and GM ever in the NFL has ups and downs.
Being spoiled into expecting perfection doesn’t change that.
Football is still football. Even if fantasy football is really popular.

 

[amfootball]

Let's put this shoe on the other foot. Let's pretend that Kraft got rid of Bill after 2019 and kept Tom. Let's say that Tom's performance went from Brady-esque to more McMilfson. More picks than TD's, ranting and raving like crotchety old Dan Marino in his last years, and the team was not winning. Would you have run him out of town, *****ing and moaning how bad he sucked? No. You would have, metaphorically, put your arm around him and walked him off into the sunset, forever grateful for all he did for us. But since you all freakin' hate Bill, you can't rid of him fast enough.

Good heavens man. He left and won a SB Bruce Arians in year one ... led the league in TDs and yards in his second year at age 44.

He hates how this "cringey" team is using Tedi's "awwwwe YEAH". God forbid they have traditions around here. God forbid they have heritage. Nope. Got their ass kicked in Dallas. Let's lock 'em out, and bring in a new 53 and a new staff. Start over, like there's never been a winning eff'n season in Foxboro. Tear down the banners, throw out the 6 trophies. Throw 'em right in the flippin' dumpster. Flatten the HoF and make more parking. Or another goddam restaurant. Bring a new coach in who kisses the media's ass. That oughta be fun.

Have a cup of coffee.

You'll forgive me if I think y'all are a bunch of ungrateful spoiled effs.

Have a second cup of coffee.

You've been a fan since 1960? Then you know how bad it can get. We've seen the bottom, us old timers. This ain't it. Not yet anyway. The next guy could be Rod Rust 2.0.

Or he could be Mike McDaniel

I agree that Sunday sucked. Horrible. But I am willing to give the organization as a whole a bit of a break, because they have repaid my emotional and financial commitment a hundred times over, and they do not owe me ****. If they never win another Super Bowl as long as I live, that's ok, because for 20 years, they kicked ass and took names. All things must end, and the era of dominance is over.

Have another cup of coffee.

 

[Steve102]

Good heavens man. He left and won a SB Bruce Arians in year one ... led the league in TDs and yards in his second year at age 44.

Playing "what if" here. I am aware of what the man did. The point being that no one in their right mind would hate Tom Brady like they hate Bill, if the situation was reversed.

Or he could be Mike McDaniel

Or Sean McVey. Oh, wait...

 

[203Pat]

Playing "what if" here.

Or Sean McVey. Oh, wait...

Lol so he could go to 2 super bowls in his first 5 years and win one of them? Heavens no! Would could withstand that?

 

[Thunderhead]

That title though

 

[VrabelJr]

Lol so he could go to 2 super bowls in his first 5 years and win one of them? Heavens no! Would could withstand that?

Clearly not this forum considering we just won a Super Bowl five years ago.

 

[Steve102]

Lol so he could go to 2 super bowls in his first 5 years and win one of them? Heavens no! Would could withstand that?

C'mon man. He was 5-12 last year. There'd be a mob at Patriots Place for him.

 

[p8ryts]

The "low energy" came from the club falling behind due to the turnovers. They drove down the field and answered Dallas' field goal and tied things up at 3-3. It's not like it was terrible. Then, the defense adjusted and played well, but the offense fell off a cliff after Jones' two turnovers put them behind again against a pretty good Dallas offense. That put them in a hole that the defense spent the rest of the afternoon trying to give them a chance to get back in it. That obviously never happened.

To your point, Belichick will be fired when it's clear he's lost the locker room or games like this become more of the norm. I don't think we're there yet.

Not saying I'm not concerned we won't see that, especially if their two best defenders are gone and they fall apart, but I don't think energy/effort was the issue today. They ended up down 28-3 not due to their own (the defense's) volition, but because of two really disastrous decisions by Jones. Hard to be happy and upbeat about that.

Either way, I don't think Belichick's the problem from this standpoint. Although, as I said earlier, I do feel like after watching Miami and Buffalo today, that the fact there's not one truly explosive player with a quarterback on a rookie deal is incredibly frustrating.

I agree. Mac is a mess right now. He can't recognize when the 5 yard out is open and that's all he needs, when he does throw it, the pass is seldom on target in stride. I saw one in the 3rd qtr. On the fumble play Shu was open right away. He doesn't seem to recognize who is playing off. There was one play early in the game. Dallas had 10 players within five yards of the line of scrimmage. Eight of them were on the line or 1 yard off. The play call was a run up the middle. Mac ran the play instead of checking out. He has never been good since the Buffalo wind game. I don't know if he got hit in the head or what, but his head is not working.

 

[p8ryts]

O line is a major part of problem BUT the entire offense is fundamentally flawed. Mac’s issues go beyond one game. He is not mentally tough and will not successfully lead a team facing pressure.

Not buying the entire offense is fundamentally flawed.

 

[amfootball]

Playing "what if" here. I am aware of what the man did. The point being that no one in their right mind would hate Tom Brady like they hate Bill, if the situation was reversed.

Or Sean McVey. Oh, wait...

What are you taking about? People here have hated Brady for leaving as a FA. That is why a Tom Brady sub forum had to be created. Folks couldn't stand to see his name mentioned.

 

[Steve102]

What are you taking about? People here have hated Brady for leaving as a FA. That is why a Tom Brady sub forum had to be created. Folks couldn't stand to see his name mentioned.

To my memory, that's not why it was created. IMO, it was created because folks needed a place to talk all things Tom Brady, and other folks wanted to move on because he was not a Patriot anymore. Doesn't matter, because, in his words, he's a Patriot for life.

Let's drop that, it's just going to go down the rabbit hole.

 

[p8ryts]

I didn’t see this game because I was out golfing an intended to watch it when I got home, however when I stopped at a store on the way home I heard someone say that Jones had just thrown a pick 6 and it was 28-3, so I bagged it altogether and found the ther things to do. It sounds like Jones played like **** and the offense couldn’t carry their weight so the defense buckled and they got their doors blown off. At this point it’s clear that they simply can’t compete against the better teams, so they are going to lose a ton of games, as their schedule is brutal. I doubt they will pick up Jones 5th year option, and a QB in the first roundI is a strong likelihood. I wouldn’t fire Belichick, but the pressure from fans on Kraft is going to be huge to do just that. It will be interesting to see what happens, and the decisions that are made this coming offseason. The only one I would really have a problem with would be replacing Belichick with Bill O’Brien, although being a fan of the Draft it would be fun to watch them pick in the top 3 every year.

The offense had a couple good looking series early. Mac doomed them. The OL was adequate, receivers were available when needed. Someone needed to recognize what was happening at the line of scrimmage and the snap. The QB couldn't do it. Happy feet, running scared. Must have read Parsons press clippings.

 

[VrabelJr]

Not buying the entire offense is fundamentally flawed.

Same, and getting yelled at in another thread for pointing out that our WR/TEs are well above average in the league. I think BB alluded to this in his presser yesterday when he said they have the talent on offense to do better than they are. Sure the OL play has been spotty but so has the QB decision making. Interpreting how intertwined those two issues are... well I'm not paid to do that.

 

[Ian]

What are you taking about? People here have hated Brady for leaving as a FA. That is why a Tom Brady sub forum had to be created. Folks couldn't stand to see his name mentioned.

To my memory, that's not why it was created. IMO, it was created because folks needed a place to talk all things Tom Brady, and other folks wanted to move on because he was not a Patriot anymore. Doesn't matter, because, in his words, he's a Patriot for life.

Let's drop that, it's just going to go down the rabbit hole.

I've cleared this one up repeatedly. That forum was made not to remove Tom's name from the main board. It was created so people could talk about the Buccaneers and follow him without there being Buccaneers threads mixed in with Patriots threads, or without forcing people into one giant Tom megathread. It wasn't meant to be a big deal and I'm still a little surprised that it turned into what it turned into.

 

[amfootball]

I've cleared this one up repeatedly. That forum was made not to remove Tom's name from the main board. It was created so people could talk about the Buccaneers and follow him without there being Buccaneers threads mixed in with Patriots threads, or without forcing people into one giant Tom megathread. It wasn't meant to be a big deal and I'm still a little surprised that it turned into what it turned into.

The issue was is there was literally one thread on the main forum for Brady/Bucs. Just one and people would come to it just to stir crap for those of us that still wanted to follow the GOAT. Many of them came over to the subforum and did the same thing. That is why I say there were folks here who hated Brady after he left and he left as a FA.

BTW, I don't fault you for any of it but the fact that you had to create a subforum for the greatest Patriot of all time kind of backs up my point that there was hatred for the guy after he left.

 

[Ian]

The issue was is there was literally one thread on the main forum for Brady/Bucs. Just one and people would come to it just to stir crap for those of us that still wanted to follow the GOAT. Many of them came over to the subforum and did the same thing. That is why I say there were folks here who hated Brady after he left and he left as a FA.

BTW, I don't fault you for any of it but the fact that you had to create a subforum for the greatest Patriot of all time kind of backs up my point that there was hatred for the guy after he left.

I don't doubt it (and I obviously saw a lot of it), but as I said, my intention behind creating it were more for that than any other reason. With Brady retired, I'll probably close it down at some point and just allow all of that to go on in here.