Mac Jones Through 2 Games (2021 vs 2022 vs 2023) By QTR and Redzone Totals

[Rob0729]

I think the manner in which BoB is running this offense is all you need to know about Mac.

Yeah, it is quite clear he is worried Mac is going to get killed by his offensive line. He clearly loves Mac. He doesn't want him injured.

O'Brien is running the offense the way he is because of the o-line, not Mac. If he didn't trust Mac, he would be running the ball far, far more.

There are literally times that Mac might be better off having ten receivers and no one blocking for him because it is like no one is blocking for him.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The guy has thrown 96 passes and completed 68.8% of his passes. I think you are overstating things quite a bit.

He stated “into coverage.” This where the 68.8% of his passes and 5.4 ypa converge. Stats and the eye test both confirm he struggles with higher reward passes.

 

[amfootball]

The guy has thrown 96 passes and completed 68.8% of his passes. I think you are overstating things quite a bit.

Again with the completion percentage which is the worst stat to determine anything. Ice posted a few pages back that is his average yard per attempt is 5.4 which is puts him 29 out of 32 QBs ...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yeah, it is quite clear he is worried Mac is going to get killed by his offensive line. He clearly loves Mac. He doesn't want him injured.

O'Brien is running the offense the way he is because of the o-line, not Mac. If he didn't trust Mac, he would be running the ball far, far more.

There are literally times that Mac might be better off having ten receivers and no one blocking for him because it is like no one is blocking for him.

Why is he running constantly on 2nd and 1?

 

[Rob0729]

He stated “into coverage.” This where the 68.8% of his passes and 5.4 ypa converge. Stats and the eye test both confirm he struggles with higher reward passes.

The Patriots receiver are not getting wide open a lot. A large portion of his passes are into coverage.

The eye test for anyone with objectivity sees one of the worst blocking offensive lines in the NFL and the Patriots having to get rid of the ball quickly because the o-line cannot hold up. And the only speedy WR who can get a quick screen and pick up a lot of YAC benched for a fumble.

 

[amfootball]

Yeah, it is quite clear he is worried Mac is going to get killed by his offensive line. He clearly loves Mac. He doesn't want him injured.

O'Brien is running the offense the way he is because of the o-line, not Mac. If he didn't trust Mac, he would be running the ball far, far more.

There are literally times that Mac might be better off having ten receivers and no one blocking for him because it is like no one is blocking for him.

Look at the routes being designed. Literally everything is within 10 yards of the LOS. That isn't just about the Oline, that is about not trusting Mac on the midrange balls where he has to read both the LB and safety.

 

[Rob0729]

The Patriots receiver are not getting wide open a lot. A large portion of his passes are into coverage.

The eye test for anyone with objectivity sees one of the worst blocking offensive lines in the NFL and the Patriots having to get rid of the ball quickly because the o-line cannot hold up. And the only speedy WR who can get a quick screen and pick up a lot of YAC benched for a fumble.

Here are the play by play logs for each game. Show me all the second and one runs:

In the Eagles game, I only found one second and one and it was a Jones pass. I saw two other second and three or less and one was an Elliot run and the other was Mac's INT.

Eagles 25-20 Patriots (Sep 10, 2023) Play-by-Play - ESPN

Play-by-play action for the Philadelphia Eagles vs. New England Patriots NFL game from September 10, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

In the Dolphins game, there were five second and ones. Three were runs, one was a pass, one was a pass play that Mac had to run for the first down because either no one was open or the line broke down or both.

Dolphins 24-17 Patriots (Sep 17, 2023) Play-by-Play - ESPN

Play-by-play action for the Miami Dolphins vs. New England Patriots NFL game from September 17, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

You are overstating things. Even in the Brady years, the Pats ran quite a bit on second and ones. Always frustrated me since I look at a second and one a free play.

 

[Rob0729]

Look at the routes being designed. Literally everything is within 10 yards of the LOS. That isn't just about the Oline, that is about not trusting Mac on the midrange balls where he has to read both the LB and safety.

Look at how much time Mac has to throw. And look at his receivers. Who is the burner who can get down the field in blazing speed so Mac can throw a ball 20 yards down the field in less than 2.2 seconds?

 

[amfootball]

Look at how much time Mac has to throw. And look at his receivers. Who is the burner who can get down the field in blazing speed so Mac can throw a ball 20 yards down the field in less than 2.2 seconds?

I am talking balls between 10-20 yards - midrange

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Look at how much time Mac has to throw. And look at his receivers. Who is the burner who can get down the field in blazing speed so Mac can throw a ball 20 yards down the field in less than 2.2 seconds?

Okay so the line has been bad, granted, but he had much better protection last year and in 2021. There’s always going to be a challenge. Coming up short, scoring less than 20 points in a loss, being something like 0-15 when defense allows over 24 pts…consistent theme is he simply isn’t the guy. Sure the Patriots could help him with all pros and a stacked offense. Then it’s the same problem, you have a team with a ceiling of AFCDG instead of Lombardi.

 

[amfootball]

Okay so the line has been bad, granted, but he had much better protection last year and in 2021. There’s always going to be a challenge. Coming up short, scoring less than 20 points in a loss, being something like 0-15 when defense allows over 24 pts…consistent theme is he simply isn’t the guy. Sure the Patriots could help him with all pros and a stacked offense. Then it’s the same problem, you have a team with a ceiling of AFCDG instead of Lombardi.

I remember with Bledsoe in 2000/2001 all folks did was talk about how bad the Oline was and how bereft the offense was of any real talent and then Brady stepped on the field ...

 

[Rob0729]

I am talking balls between 10-20 yards - midrange

I am talking about an o-line that that only has a pass block win rate of 37% (second worse in the NFL). I am talking about an o-line that has allowed the most hurries than any other o-line in the league. I am talking about an o-line that allowed one of the most pressures in the league.

If you cannot accept that the o-line is dictating how O'Brien is calling the offense, you lack all objectivity. Again, if O'Brien didn't trust Mac, he would have a run heavy offense. Except the run blocking sucks as bad as the pass blocking.

Until the o-line is fixed. O'Brien is never going to call the offense he wants to call. He is calling the offense the way he is because the o-line is a disaster.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I remember with Bledsoe in 2000/2001 all folks did was talk about how bad the Oline was and how bereft the offense was of any real talent and then Brady stepped on the field ...

seems like Bledsoe stepped back in, later that year, and won a playoff game with that crew?

so maybe the overreaction to how bad things were pre-9/23/01 was real?


if this o-line gets consistency and healthy, watch how quickly the rest of the offense comes around

 

[amfootball]

seems like Bledsoe stepped back in, later that year, and won a playoff game with that crew?

so maybe the overreaction to how bad things were pre-9/23/01 was real?


if this o-line gets consistency and healthy, watch how quickly the rest of the offense comes around

Did you watch the second half of that AFCCG? He was awful, throwing a pass blind over his head into the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Okay so the line has been bad, granted, but he had much better protection last year and in 2021. There’s always going to be a challenge. Coming up short, scoring less than 20 points in a loss, being something like 0-15 when defense allows over 24 pts…consistent theme is he simply isn’t the guy. Sure the Patriots could help him with all pros and a stacked offense. Then it’s the same problem, you have a team with a ceiling of AFCDG instead of Lombardi.

How much worse than 2021? A billion times? The Pats' oline the first two weeks has been an unmittigated disaster. The Dolphins have a horrible pass rush and they looked like the best front four in the league last Sunday. Bradley Chubb has been a bust since he went to the Dolphins. He looked like Micah Parsons last Sunday.

Come one, if you are being objective, you would admit they are triaging the o-line right now and O'Brien is calling plays to compensate for it. You know it. Let's see if and when they get the o-line to at least not be a disaster and actually can give Mac more than an average of 2.2 seconds and let's the Pats have a running game what the play calling will look like then.

 

[Rob0729]

I remember with Bledsoe in 2000/2001 all folks did was talk about how bad the Oline was and how bereft the offense was of any real talent and then Brady stepped on the field ...

I didn't. He just wasn't suited for the Patriots offense and the game was changing making him a dinosaur. When debating on who they should trade, I always said I thought Bledsoe was the better QB (I was clearly wrong there), but Brady was more suited for the Patriots' offense.

And with Bledsoe you needed a good o-line because old school seven step drop pocket passer. The fact of the matter was he was a beast of another era and the speed defense in the 2000s was getting too fast for that type of QB. If Bledsoe played today, he would be sacked like 6-7 times a game even behind a very good o-line.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How much worse than 2021? A billion times? The Pats' oline the first two weeks has been an unmittigated disaster. The Dolphins have a horrible pass rush and they looked like the best front four in the league last Sunday. Bradley Chubb has been a bust since he went to the Dolphins. He looked like Micah Parsons last Sunday.

Come one, if you are being objective, you would admit they are triaging the o-line right now and O'Brien is calling plays to compensate for it. You know it. Let's see if and when they get the o-line to at least not be a disaster and actually can give Mac more than an average of 2.2 seconds and let's the Pats have a running game what the play calling will look like then.

I agree with this but Mac is the same guy and it contributes to the problem. Teams will be more aggressive when they know the risk is a 6 yard sideline out. Some of the pressure is from blitzing and some is from the 4 man rush. When he does have time he isn’t making much of it, which has always been the issue. He doesn’t make teams pay enough.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Did you watch the second half of that AFCCG? He was awful, throwing a pass blind over his head into the defense.

he also threw for over 100 with a TD....i remember that pass, but awful is hyperbole; his 2nd half statline was on par with brady's 1st half stat line

point is, we all tend to overreact.......2001 certainly captured lightning in a bottle, and TB was a huge part of that.......but they also rushed in the upper middle of the league and allowed 46 sacks......the OL clearly improved as the season progressed, and we collectively likely overreacted as to just how bad they were

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with this but Mac is the same guy and it contributes to the problem. Teams will be more aggressive when they know the risk is a 6 yard sideline out. Some of the pressure is from blitzing and some is from the 4 man rush. When he does have time he isn’t making much of it, which has always been the issue. He doesn’t make teams pay enough.

The same guy as what? We haven't been able to fairly judge the guy since his rookie season. He was actually not bad with the midrange balls down the stretch last year.

When has he had time this year? He made a 14 yard pass to Parker on Sunday with three guys on top of him. He had a long pass to Bourne that was perfect that Bourne dropped. He hasn't had the opportunities with a real OC yet.

This is why I am straddling the fence. You could be right. You could be wrong. We don't know because last year was a wasted year in evaluating his development and so far this year has too.

 

[amfootball]

The same guy as what? We haven't been able to fairly judge the guy since his rookie season. He was actually not bad with the midrange balls down the stretch last year.

When has he had time this year? He made a 14 yard pass to Parker on Sunday with three guys on top of him. He had a long pass to Bourne that was perfect that Bourne dropped. He hasn't had the opportunities with a real OC yet.

This is why I am straddling the fence. You could be right. You could be wrong. We don't know because last year was a wasted year in evaluating his development and so far this year has too.

We have his rookie season and the first 2 games of this year. He's still the same guy. I do agree that we need to see the rest of this season before making any final judgments one way or the other.