Mac Jones Through 2 Games (2021 vs 2022 vs 2023) By QTR and Redzone Totals

[Pape]

Russel Wilson had a stud defense( legion of boom) and he had solid playmakers on offense much superior to what we have now. Marshawn Lynch to name one. He just had to play a supporting role.

incorrect.

Roethlisberger had studs as wide receivers. Antonio brown, Hines ward, sabtanio brown and JuJu in prime before he got injured. Along with claypool , Emmanuel Sanders.

you need to look beyond the super stars. you need to look at the players who be brought along

Mac has not even 1 who can match that resume .

Mac hasn't shown the ability to even try and compete at those levels, so its a moot point.

 

[RIpats88]

currently? not off hand... But when making that type of assessment, you have to look beyond the "superstars" and "studs"... got to look at the tier 2 and 3 type players... Brady could do it (but then again, he could do just about everything), P Manning could do it, Russel Wilson used to be able to do it (not so much anymore... ego killed his game imo)... Roethlisberger was also able to do it... believe it ir not, Joe Flacco as well... I am sure there are others, but when i started thinking about it, those are the guys that jumped out... Burrow would be my best guess beyond Mahomes... I like his game, and if I could pick 1 guy to be here, it would be him.

Brady did his best when he had subpar talent. but it clearly effected him even as the GOAT. I mean 24 tds in 2006, 50 in 2007. then 24 tds in 2019 compared to 40 in 2020 is a huge jump from year to year. 2013 was the kenbrell tompkins year and he only had 25. then 33 the next year.

brady didn't suddenly get better. his supporting cast did.

not sure this idea has come from that receivers don't matter and its all on the QB to raise everyones level. as if some other QB would make parker/juju/bourne studs like jamaar chase or kelce or tyreek hill

 

[Pape]

Brady did his best when he had subpar talent. but it clearly effected him. I mean 24 tds in 2006, 50 in 2007. then 24 tds in 2019 compared to 40 in 2020 is a huge jump. 2013 was the kenbrell tompkins year and he only had 25. then 33 the next year.

brady didn't suddenly get better. his supporting cast did.

not sure this idea has come from that receivers don't matter and its all on the QB to raise everyones level. as if some other QB would make parker/juju/bourne studs like jamaar chase or kelce or tyreek hill

I never said receivers didn't matter. In fact I quite clearly said you need to look beyond those types of players to understand what I am talking about.

And yes, Brady did get suddenly better. Much improved between 2001 and 2004.

 

[RIpats88]

I never said receivers didn't matter.

In fact I quite clearly said you need to look beyond those types of players to understand what I am talking about.

what you are talking about makes no sense. we don't even have one of those players.

and just one of those players effects the QB and receivers all down the line. its probably the #2 most important position in todays NFL. if not #1 considering how much its done for guys like hurts, tua, allen. doubt any of those guys look the way they do without aj brown, hill or diggs

 

[Pape]

what you are talking about makes no sense. we don't even have one of those players.

and just one of those players effects the QB and receivers all down the line. its probably the #2 most important position in todays NFL. if not #1 considering how much its done for guys like hurts, tua, allen. doubt any of those guys look the way they do without aj brown, hill or diggs

if you dont understand what I am talking about, then I cannot help you... go back to listening to eei, you'll be fine

 

[RIpats88]

if you dont understand what I am talking about, then I cannot help you... go back to listening to eei, you'll be fine

you are saying mac should be making a bunch of average receivers studs. That's unrealistic...

parker isn't going to suddenly become jamaar chase even if he replaced him on the Bengals. he has a limited talent level.

you could put any QB on this roster and our receivers aren't becoming studs with us putting up 35ppg

 

[amfootball]

you are saying mac should be making a bunch of average receivers studs. That's unrealistic...

parker isn't going to suddenly become jamaar chase even if he replaced him on the Bengals. he has a limited talent level.

you could put any QB on this roster and our receivers aren't becoming studs with us putting up 35ppg

To me it's not about stats, it's about winning.

 

[Pape]

you are saying mac should be making a bunch of average receivers studs. That's unrealistic...

parker isn't going to suddenly become jamaar chase even if he replaced him on the Bengals. he has a limited talent level.

you could put any QB on this roster and our receivers aren't becoming studs with us putting up 35ppg

I did not say that.

 

[lancerman]

Russel Wilson had a stud defense( legion of boom) and he had solid playmakers on offense much superior to what we have now. Marshawn Lynch to name one. He just had to play a supporting role
Roethlisberger had studs as wide receivers. Antonio brown, Hines ward, sabtanio brown and JuJu in prime before he got injured. Along with claypool , Emmanuel Sanders.

Mac has not even 1 who can match that resume .

Peyton Manning played his entire career in Indy with either Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. Often both. In his 12 years there he saw his WR's get 4 First Team All Pros and 7 Second Team All Pros. One ended up on the All decade team for the 2000's. Then Dallas Clark was the TE and he got a First Team All Pro at one point. Dude routinely had stacked offenses.

THEN he went to Indy and Demaryius Thomas and then got Welker, then Sanders. It was probably the most potent offense in the NFL at the time. And all of them looked good without Manning. Julius Thomas was the one guy you could say Manning "made".

But no, Peyton Manning in his life never dealt with an offense even half as bad as what the Pats have had.

 

[lancerman]

To me it's not about stats, it's about winning.

Winning is a function of many things. Patrick Mahomes put up one of the all time bad QB performances in a Super Bowl because his offensive line was decimated. Nobody is going to say he sucks. Just a couple of weeks ago we saw him look mediocre without Kelce. Tom Brady struggled here when the offense started having talent issues, people on this board said he declined, he probed that it was the talent when he left. Allen went from being mediocre and nearly losing his job to a winner and being seen as a premier QB when they got him some talent. Tua got talent and is now putting wins together. On the other end, Drew Brees was playing out of his mind for 3 straight years and his team still had losing records because the defense sucked.

Idk where this idea came about that if you have a good QB they are going to win regardless of the **** team you put around them.

 

[Ian]

currently? not off hand... But when making that type of assessment, you have to look beyond the "superstars" and "studs"... got to look at the tier 2 and 3 type players... Brady could do it (but then again, he could do just about everything), P Manning could do it, Russel Wilson used to be able to do it (not so much anymore... ego killed his game imo)... Roethlisberger was also able to do it... believe it ir not, Joe Flacco as well... I am sure there are others, but when i started thinking about it, those are the guys that jumped out... Burrow would be my best guess beyond Mahomes... I like his game, and if I could pick 1 guy to be here, it would be him.

It's tough ... I hear the "he doesn't make guys around him better" and the only person I think of when someone mentions that is Brady. But he had the resume and the work ethic to back it up. Between those things, guys knew they had to be on their game, and if they weren't, they better be showing they were doing whatever they could to get there.

Agree with you on Burrow, but obviously, he's among the unicorns. That's sort of what I keep coming back to. Until we end up with another, we have to figure out a way in-between then to win with whoever we have until they find someone else.

As I said, the trend in the league with young guys has been trying to prop them up more vs asking them to carry it all, and then tearing them down when they don't deliver. In a perfect world, a young QB would just hit the ground running but that's just so rare now in today's game. Especially given how much more of an emphasis there is on the passing game. Although it's strange, teams are no longer as leery of starting rookie QBs as they used to be. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

 

[Ian]

Why is it "a weird thing to say" Mac isn't good enough to be a winning QB in this system? Unless the wheels fall off, he'll have his fifth year option picked up.

I don't know about that, depending on how this year goes. If it goes the way we're afraid it might, given some of the obstacles they're facing, they very well may treat him like Daniel Jones and not pick up his option. And, truthfully, if that happens, regardless of how 2024 goes, I think he may walk at that point. Especially if he has a good year.

He'll have plenty of time to prove that I'm the idiot by winning in this system.

You're not an idiot for thinking he's not the right guy, not at all. Again, you had just said before you essentially wouldn't like him no matter what, even if he went on to be successful. That just felt like an extreme view.

As I've told @Triumph, it's not like they're not going to keep drafting/signing people and exploring options if they feel like someone better might be out there.

At the same time, it's going to stink having to keep going through that process and I'm not looking forward to years ticking by while that goes on.

Mac has the ability to play quarterback in this league. Mac doesn't have the ability to win the AFCCG in this system. It is what it is.

It may not be an issue of not being able to win with this system, and you're right, it could be something else that makes him a bad fit here. We'll have to wait and see how all of that goes.

 

[Ian]

My dog could win a Super Bowl with the right supporting cast.

LOL, and BTW, you need to post a photo in the "Pet Thread" in the Pub so we can get a scouting report.

https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/the-pet-thread.1154311/unread/

 

[Toofy]

incorrect.

you need to look beyond the super stars. you need to look at the players who be brought along

Mac hasn't shown the ability to even try and compete at those levels, so its a moot point.

Yeah please quote average wide receivers whom roethlisberger elevated despite poor offensive line

Peyton Manning played his entire career in Indy with either Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. Often both. In his 12 years there he saw his WR's get 4 First Team All Pros and 7 Second Team All Pros. One ended up on the All decade team for the 2000's. Then Dallas Clark was the TE and he got a First Team All Pro at one point. Dude routinely had stacked offenses.

THEN he went to Indy and Demaryius Thomas and then got Welker, then Sanders. It was probably the most potent offense in the NFL at the time. And all of them looked good without Manning. Julius Thomas was the one guy you could say Manning "made".

But no, Peyton Manning in his life never dealt with an offense even half as bad as what the Pats have had.

Totally agree. I think there is no way you can convince pape. He has made up his mind that it's Mac which could possibly be the case. But for now based on circumstantial evidence for this year, Mac is not the problem and that's as plain vanilla to see. And it's obvious Bill is the bigger problem.

 

[Toofy]

To me it's not about stats, it's about winning.

Mac is not playing tennis . He is playing football and last I heard it's a team sport .

 

[Wozzy]

What does Brady have to do with Corky Mac?

Brady had proven that he was clutch and a winner. Corky has proven to be a choker and a loser.

Crazy talk.

Burrow, Herbert and Cousins are all 0-2.

Football is a team game.

Learn the game troll.

 

[Pape]

Yeah please quote average wide receivers whom roethlisberger elevated despite poor offensive line

we got one on the roster right now,

Peyton Manning played his entire career in Indy with either Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. Often both. In his 12 years there he saw his WR's get 4 First Team All Pros and 7 Second Team All Pros. One ended up on the All decade team for the 2000's. Then Dallas Clark was the TE and he got a First Team All Pro at one point. Dude routinely had stacked offenses.

THEN he went to Indy and Demaryius Thomas and then got Welker, then Sanders. It was probably the most potent offense in the NFL at the time. And all of them looked good without Manning. Julius Thomas was the one guy you could say Manning "made".

But no, Peyton Manning in his life never dealt with an offense even half as bad as what the Pats have had.

marvin harrison or reggie wayne ... i guess you didnt understand the sentence that said - Look beyond the super stars

Dallas clark is a prime example of a guy who was made better by Manning.

ask yourself this question - what can a quarterback do to make a player better?

when you can answer that you might get a clue about what I am talking about but right now the point has obviously gone over your head.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's tough ... I hear the "he doesn't make guys around him better" and the only person I think of when someone mentions that is Brady. But he had the resume and the work ethic to back it up. Between those things, guys knew they had to be on their game, and if they weren't, they better be showing they were doing whatever they could to get there.

Agree with you on Burrow, but obviously, he's among the unicorns. That's sort of what I keep coming back to. Until we end up with another, we have to figure out a way in-between then to win with whoever we have until they find someone else.

As I said, the trend in the league with young guys has been trying to prop them up more vs asking them to carry it all, and then tearing them down when they don't deliver. In a perfect world, a young QB would just hit the ground running but that's just so rare now in today's game. Especially given how much more of an emphasis there is on the passing game. Although it's strange, teams are no longer as leery of starting rookie QBs as they used to be. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

If the Patriots are smart they will pick up Mac's option and continue building around him. Most "sure-thing" quarterbacks in the draft end up being anything but -- look no further than than the likes of Lance, Fields, Punky McMilfson, etc. We all were spoiled by Tom Brady's rare excellence and made impatient by someone falling short of that elite standard. This offense will remain a work in progress for a while yet, steadiness and continuity at quarterback will be crucial to it getting over the hump.

I like what BOB is doing re. taking flyers on players like Corral, Book and Grier. Eventually a strong backup will emerge, perhaps even a diamond in the rough who can push Mac.

 

[Ross12]

Last game actually made me extremely enthusiastic about Mac, he showed mobility and an ability to create something out of nothing that we’ve yet to see before. I am cautiously optimistic. If he keeps playing like that then I think he might be the guy. It’s hard to see it because his line has played poorly and his receivers aren’t separating well (and even if they could, he doesn’t have time to wait for them to separate much anyway) but the ability was flashed several times and he was borderline carrying the team on his back last weekend. It just got overshadowed by his really stupid throw to Parker that got picked, which was similar to how his play the prior week was mostly overshadowed by his misfire to Bourne that was tipped and picked for a pick-6. If he can clean up those periodic mental mistakes, otherwise keep playing like he has been, and get even 20% better line play and a pocket that stays clean sometimes, he might really wow us. I like it a lot!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If the Patriots are smart they will pick up Mac's option and continue building around him. Most "sure-thing" quarterbacks in the draft end up being anything but -- look no further than than the likes of Lance, Fields, Punky McMilfson, etc. We all were spoiled by Tom Brady's rare excellence and made impatient by someone falling short of that elite standard. This offense will remain a work in progress for a while yet, steadiness and continuity at quarterback will be crucial to it getting over the hump.

I like what BOB is doing re. taking flyers on players like Corral, Book and Grier. Eventually a strong backup will emerge, perhaps even a diamond in the rough who can push Mac.

Basically the nightmare scenario if they sign Jones to a $175M extension.