Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[mike_usagisan]

Because if we didn't win, it's below average.

Sorry @archstanton543 , I wasn't saying that was my standpoint, but the standpoint of the people who said Mac was "below average."

 

[rochrist]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

PFF had it the sixth best of the 1st week.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

against a juggernaut defense as well

Its not like they were playing against the Lions/Browns of last year, when people were creaming their pants over Zappe's production

 

[mgteich]

PFF had it the sixth best of the 1st week.

For some folks, words mean whatever they choose them to mean.

6th best for them is "below" average

The same folks would probably rate our WR's to be below average with their terrible YAC numbers.

 

[Kasmir]

PFF had it the sixth best of the 1st week.

By DYAR he was 7th and #1 in red zone DYAR

Week 1 Quick Reads: Tua's Big Day

Here's a look at the best and worst players of Week 1 using our DYAR stats, led by a big game from the Miami Dolphins' quarterback.

www.ftnfantasy.com

 

[Kasmir]

Nice analysis of Mac's game vs PHI

 

[RIpats88]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

its really ridiculous the narrative that people are twisting themselves into.

 

[Real fan 02]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

Right ??, Mac had a better day throwing the ball than Allen, Burrow and hurts.. all who have elite WRs.. to have 300 plus yards passing with no elite WRs is impressive for any QB.

 

[captain stone]

I still don't get how a 3 TD 300+ yard performance is "below average".

Because it took him Over Fifty pass attempts to reach those 300+ yards.

I thought Corky's performance was slightly above average myself, in the C/C+ range.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Care to compare Mac to Tua at Alabama? Almost an A/B test, and Mac at least held his own.

It's a lot easier to dominate college competition.

The Pros is a whole different animal as the level of athleticism and skills jumps up to a whole new level.

So far Mac Jones has not elevated his game to match Tua in the pros and that's what counts.

I'm not saying Mac Jones is a lost cause by any means but he has failed to impress against strong NFL competition.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You’re so desperate to tell us “Mac sucks” you’re reaching.

You said that phrase yourself. Not me. All I cite are the facts. And 5.8 YPA is nothing to write home about.

In fact that's good for 28th in the NFL among starting QBs.

You can make all the excuses you want. In the real world results matter. That's the bottom line.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Points

Points are the bottom line, correct.

How you get them is irrelevant

That is incorrect. If the defense scores TWO TDs off turnovers and the offense kicks 2 FGs to get to 20 points, did your offense have a good day? Context still matters.

In the last game, the Patriots offense got 300 yards through the air but only 5.8 YPA. That aerial game isn't as good as the yardage 'totals' make it look. It was struggling.

Likewise our two lead backs only had 54 yards combined between the two of them. Meanwhile Rhamondre Stevenson only got his 25 yards rushing on a paltry 2.1 YPC.

I get it, he was a beast last year. But this is a brand new season and there's no excusing how BAD our running game was last week against the Eagles!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Points are the bottom line, correct.



That is incorrect. If the defense scores TWO TDs off turnovers and the offense kicks 2 FGs to get to 20 points, did your offense have a good day? Context still matters.

In the last game, the Patriots offense got 300 yards through the air but only 5.8 YPA. That aerial game isn't as good as the yardage 'totals' make it look. It was struggling.

Likewise our two lead backs only had 54 yards combined between the two of them. Meanwhile Rhamondre Stevenson only got his 25 yards rushing on a paltry 2.1 YPC.

I get it, he was a beast last year. But this is a brand new season and there's no excusing how BAD our running game was last week against the Eagles!

The NEP have won Super Bowls scoring points on STs and defensively. How you get them as long as you win is irrelevant.

However that is not sustainable if you intend on winning consistently.

 

[Wozzy]

You said that phrase yourself. Not me. All I cite are the facts. And 5.8 YPA is nothing to write home about.

In fact that's good for 28th in the NFL among starting QBs.

You can make all the excuses you want. In the real world results matter. That's the bottom line.

316 yards passing is the fourth most passing yards in the NFL.

3 TD's is tied for the most passing TD's in the NFL... the big difference between Mac and his peers is he played the Eagles. YPA with a one game sample size against the toughest defense in the NFL is meaningless.

In the real world Mac had his team on the precipice of a win and his weapons failed him.

You sure better hope Mac doesn't keep playing this way, or your "Mac sucks" takes will be the laughingstock of the board.

 

[RIpats88]

It's a lot easier to dominate college competition.

The Pros is a whole different animal as the level of athleticism and skills jumps up to a whole new level.

So far Mac Jones has not elevated his game to match Tua in the pros and that's what counts.

I'm not saying Mac Jones is a lost cause by any means but he has failed to impress against strong NFL competition.

tua never elevated his game until he got Tyreek hill to pair with waddle...what a coincidence?

 

[n1997y]

Disagree... SF is the better team... does not take anything away from the eagles in saying so... but that's besides the point... the point is we saw what we need to measure up against and we are not there yet

Not sure I agree. Take the 14 points we gifted the Iggles to start the game off the board and it looks a lot different. The two drives to start the comeback were about as good as anyone could ask for. Those were not giving away anything to the Eagles. Truth is, if we had even one more drive like that the outcome could’ve been very different. That’s the thing that makes me say Mac came up small. It’s not the last gasp failures, it’s letting things come down to desperation possessions. Two drives flashed how good this team can be. But where was that after halftime? It wasn’t all defense adjusting, a lot of it was poor execution and missed opportunities.

That’s where I come down on it, missed opportunity. Moral victories are for losers who don’t know how to win. I’m not ready to consign this team to that category. Yet. Squish the Fish!

 

[n1997y]

The decision to pick up his fifth year option has already been made unless he completely implodes. At worst, Mac is a competent starting QB who puts in the work during the week, that's worth the 24 million or so the option will cost them. Now, in terms of an extension I agree he has a ton to prove, but they don't have to make a determination on that until March, 2026.

I think this is a really great point. The Pats are probably happy enough with Mac to realize they're not going to find anyone better for cheaper and Mac puts them in position enough to win. If it were today, they'd pick up the option. But whether they think he's the future is still a big question.

Time runs out on moral victories. I agree. When does Mac's time run out on moral victories? I think you are jumping the gun. Every NFL QB needs 3 years before an initial judgement. Tua, Allen, and Hurts all grew significantly over their 3rd season in the league. Everyone loves Herbert but he has not won anything. We need to wait for the end of this season to draw conclusions on Mac.

I expect that by the end of the season BB will know if Mac is QBotF. But I expect what he does is likelybto be the same whether or not he thinks Mac is that guy.

I expect Bill will use the fifth year option, *and* draft (or potentially sign) the best QB he can get. Priority of getting a high quality QB prospect may be adjusted if Mac looks like he is that guy, but I still expect a prospect will be drafted to upgrade from Zappe. Mac will be competing for his job in training camp next year and the year after. Even if he remains starter next year he may end up sitting in year 5 if the guy drafted next year is good enough to play after one year of seasoning.

Pretty much the only thing I can see changing what happens would be BB deciding that Mac is not the guy, and cutting ties in the off-season. That means there’s a succession plan, and Mac is really not making the grade (whatever that might be). I don’t expect this is very likely however.

 

[Pape]

Not sure I agree. Take the 14 points we gifted the Iggles to start the game off the board and it looks a lot different. The two drives to start the comeback were about as good as anyone could ask for. Those were not giving away anything to the Eagles. Truth is, if we had even one more drive like that the outcome could’ve been very different. That’s the thing that makes me say Mac came up small. It’s not the last gasp failures, it’s letting things come down to desperation possessions. Two drives flashed how good this team can be. But where was that after halftime? It wasn’t all defense adjusting, a lot of it was poor execution and missed opportunities.

That’s where I come down on it, missed opportunity. Moral victories are for losers who don’t know how to win. I’m not ready to consign this team to that category. Yet. Squish the Fish!

the point is we can't overlook disasters like the first quarter... saying "we were good except for..." is hollow... If this team can play a solid 4 quarters of football, they can win... It just feels like forever and a day since we've played 4 solid, competitive quarters...

we can't continue to start games in slow mode... got to do better... If we can, we can win.

Squish the Fish!

 

[n1997y]

Yes, I think that's right, and to be honest, I get the argument, though I disagree with the timeline. It's really hard to win unless you have an elite QB. And those people don't think Mac will be one, so they want to try again. I think you need to see what we have with Mac this year and then make a decision on drafting another QB next year. But it's up to Mac to change their minds at this point.

What we have is what he shows us.

in other words, we got nothing until he shows something.

What he needs to show is that he can and will take control of a game and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

he has not shown that yet. He may never. Still hoping he will.

 

[VJCPatriot]

tua never elevated his game until he got Tyreek hill to pair with waddle...what a coincidence?

Tua's injury history seems more relevant to why he has struggled to develop in the NFL.

Article: Tua Tagovailoa injury history: A complete timeline of injuries for Dolphins QB

It's a long list so it's more of a triumph that he overcame those injuries and still managed to emerge as a top tier QB in the division despite all of that working against him.