Is the New England Patriot Defense Elite?

[doesntmatter1]

Elite....Nah. Our front seven doesn't get the job done against elite teams. Our run d isn't dominant enough to make teams one dimensional and our pass rush isn't quick enough to catch mobile qbs like Josh Allen who run around and make us look foolish. Just a few players prevent us from taking that next steps but unfortunately they seem to be cogs for us.

#1 problem is Deatrich Wise...tweener that sees a ridiculous amount of snaps but will never come close to 10+ sacks nor does he cause enough tackles for loss. I've personally been tired of him since 2019. Hasn't improved whatsoever.

#2. Bentley is sluggish even for a thumper. He is improving but his lack of short area quickness gets exposed far too often. Guys like Spikes were MUCH slower but quick and it showed in blitz and jumping routes in zone coverage.

#3. L Guy is just okay and doesn't make splash plays like he used to for us. Maybe it was his shoulder injury holding him back but I see him as a surprise cut.

Great safety play can elevate a defense and we have no idea how the defense will perform without McCourty. In the end, I think our defense will be good enough and hopefully our offense will pull its weight this year.

 

[mgteich]

top 5

 

[UrbanCowboy]

Elite. I think Belichick's approach takes longer to grasp/absorb. We used to be able to practice more, but now you can't, so it's taking longer. Core group has been together a few seasons now, and they're adding nice complementary players (mostly speed). Admittedly, this may well be Homer logic!

 

[jlu52]

I’ll let you know in mid-October. They have the potential to be a very good unit, though. Too many X-factors that aren’t known right now. Will Gonzo hit the ground running? How much will they miss McCourty’s presence and leadership?

I second Kontra. The potential is certainly there.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't know what elite means. I think Josh Allen is elite, but he lost to the Jets.

 

[TheRainMaker]

#1 problem is Deatrich Wise...tweener that sees a ridiculous amount of snaps but will never come close to 10+ sacks nor does he cause enough tackles for loss. I've personally been tired of him since 2019. Hasn't improved whatsoever.

@captain stone and I wanted Wise off the team for years, but he had a career season in 2022. He’s playing as a 3-4 End, so don’t expect him to get 10+ sacks. He’s the least of the D’s worries. However….

#2. Bentley is sluggish even for a thumper. He is improving but his lack of short area quickness gets exposed far too often. Guys like Spikes were MUCH slower but quick and it showed in blitz and jumping routes in zone coverage.

This is weak spot of the D. His lack of speed routinely gets exposed against agile QB’s or when getting caught defending WR’s on crossers, TE’s, RB’s, etc. Bentley looks like he’s jogging against these offensive players. Ditto with Tavai.

They also need more of an irritant in the middle of the field that can cover sideline to sideline.

 

[TheBeers]

There are no "elite" defenses anymore... But this D has the potential to be among the best. Keion White is going to be a problem for teams and make our already excellent pass rush much better. Mapu and Gonzo will be difference makers as well.

 

[mike_usagisan]

This is weak spot of the D. His lack of speed routinely gets exposed against agile QB’s or when getting caught defending WR’s on crossers, TE’s, RB’s, etc. Bentley looks like he’s jogging against these offensive players. Ditto with Tavai.

They also need more of an irritant in the middle of the field that can cover sideline to sideline.

Isn't that why they got Mapu?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Isn't that why they got Mapu?

You’d think, but I’m not digging him being wasted at S right now with Dugger, Phillips, and Peppers. I was hoping he’d play MLB like he did in college.

 

[mike_usagisan]

You’d think, but I’m not digging him being wasted at S right now with Dugger, Phillips, and Peppers. I was hoping he’d play MLB like he did in college.

He's a hybrid S/LB. He's going to be playing all over the place.

 

[Kasmir]

A lot of folks here are using personal definitions of "elite", some apparently hearkening back to the days of yore.

So a related question: were *any* defenses elite last year? What defenses do you expect to be elite this year?

 

[TheRainMaker]

So a related question: were *any* defenses elite last year?

No.

What defenses do you expect to be elite this year?

None.

 

[jdlboot14]

Elite is an over-used cliche.
If our D can be in the top 5 in points allowed and takeaways, I'll be thrilled.
Yards allowed and sacks are great, but top 10 there would be fine.
And that's enough to compete for the playoffs in this league.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Elite Patriots defense? I would say that was when the Patriots had Ted ("Butt is so big you could project a movie on it") Washington at nose tackle (with Seymore and McGinest on each side plus Bruschi, Vrable, Ty Law, Rodney, and the rest behind them). That was an elite defense. You could not run against Mount Washington and you dared not pass

Is the current defense as good as that? Well to start, they do not have a Ted Washington in the middle, but everywhere else they seem to have excellent players.

If they are an elite defense, we will need a "Doomsday"-style nickname for this defense. New England Stonewall? No-fly Zone? DMZ?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Elite Patriots defense? I would say that was when the Patriots had Ted ("Butt is so big you could project a movie on it") Washington at nose tackle (with Seymore and McGinest on each side plus Bruschi, Vrable, Ty Law, Rodney, and the rest behind them). That was an elite defense. You could not run against Mount Washington and you dared not pass

Is the current defense as good as that? Well to start, they do not have a Ted Washington in the middle, but everywhere else they seem to have excellent players.

If they are an elite defense, we will need a "Doomsday"-style nickname for this defense. New England Stonewall?

The 2003 D’s only blemish was the 2nd half of the Super Bowl letting Delhomme go wild on them with the Panthers eventually taking the lead and then tying the game late. Before Brady’s awful INT near the goal line up 21-10, the Panthers looked like the moment was too big for them.

Had they played better, that defense probably would be talked about more among the media and fans as one of the best.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

The 2003 D’s only blemish was the 2nd half of the Super Bowl letting Delhomme go wild on them with the Panthers eventually taking the lead and then tying the game late. Before Brady’s awful INT near the goal line up 21-10, the Panthers looked like the moment was too big for them.

Had they played better, that defense probably would be talked about more among the media and fans as one of the best.

Didn't they have a key injury in the secondary that allowed this to happen? I seem to recall that this was the issue, but I could be misremembering it or confusing it with another year.

That defense was definitely a stone wall. I think that the weakness of the current defense will be against the run....

 

[Kasmir]

Didn't they have a key injury in the secondary that allowed this to happen? I seem to recall that this was the issue, but I could be misremembering it or confusing it with another year.

That defense was definitely a stone wall. I think that the weakness of the current defense will be against the run....

Rodney Harrison broke his arm in the 4th quarter and actually tried to play on it.

That was the "they hate their coach" season where they lost the opener to Bledsoe, Milloy and the Bills 31-0 but ended the regular season beating the Bills 31-0!

 

[BTTA]

I am very pleased with how this defense might emerge. There are many factors trending in the right way, and we don't need all of them to hit.
-Barmore healthy and smarter in his 3rd year
-Dugger and the Jones' now being veterans
-The emergence of several unicorns and what that enables for scheming
-Peppers being healthy for the first time as a Patriot and even Belichick expressing enthusiasm about his improvement this year
-the possibility of 4 impact rookies...FOUR....on an otherwise very talented group.
-finally having a tall, talented, fast press corner
-Uche's emergence last year and playing this year for a 2nd contract that'll change his life
-the run defense being the biggest concern, in an era when most NFL teams don't emphasize the run
-and hopefully, compared to last year, an offense that will keep them off the field and provide better field position to defend
-and as part of that, a rookie punter with an excellent leg

In past years, longstanding vets who are average NFL starters - Guy, Wise, Bentley, Godchaux - needed to be playmakers for the defense to do well. Now, they are the "weak" spots. Sign me up.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I am very pleased with how this defense might emerge. There are many factors trending in the right way, and we don't need all of them to hit.
-Barmore healthy and smarter in his 3rd year
-Dugger and the Jones' now being veterans
-The emergence of several unicorns and what that enables for scheming
-Peppers being healthy for the first time as a Patriot and even Belichick expressing enthusiasm about his improvement this year
-the possibility of 4 impact rookies...FOUR....on an otherwise very talented group.
-finally having a tall, talented, fast press corner
-Uche's emergence last year and playing this year for a 2nd contract that'll change his life
-the run defense being the biggest concern, in an era when most NFL teams don't emphasize the run
-and hopefully, compared to last year, an offense that will keep them off the field and provide better field position to defend
-and as part of that, a rookie punter with an excellent leg

In past years, longstanding vets who are average NFL starters - Guy, Wise, Bentley, Godchaux - needed to be playmakers for the defense to do well. Now, they are the "weak" spots. Sign me up.

Only item to add is that the defensive "team speed" with Peppers, Mapu, Duggar, Gonzo, M Jones, Ja and Jo Jones, Uche, Judon, etc., is much improved from 2 years ago. Still a few thumpers, but far fewer.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Didn't they have a key injury in the secondary that allowed this to happen? I seem to recall that this was the issue, but I could be misremembering it or confusing it with another year.

That defense was definitely a stone wall. I think that the weakness of the current defense will be against the run....

Rodney Harrison broke his arm in the 4th quarter and actually tried to play on it.

That was the "they hate their coach" season where they lost the opener to Bledsoe, Milloy and the Bills 31-0 but ended the regular season beating the Bills 31-0!

Yep, Harrison broke his arm. There were a combo of blown coverages and Law/Poole getting uncharacteristically beat.