Cool Link Article: Bill O' Brien, Mac Jones and the Offense

[Zuma]

Great article.

 

[patfanken]

I was HOPING that this thread would create a football discussion based on the depth of the information found in the OP. It was a fascinating and more importantly, a great chance for EVERYONE here to learn more about how offenses are formulated, structured and run. It was a LEARNING opportunity.

To that end I am BEGGING all of you to do just that. Go back and read (or re-read) the damned article and let's talk about that. I'll start:

One of the points Connolly makes is connecting the Pats and the RPO series. These are 2 words RARELY mentioned in the same breath. Yet Connolly makes a case that not only would Mac make this offense work, he'd THRIVE in it. And to make his point more emphatic, he pointed out that he's ALREADY thrived in it at Alabama.

So the question is WILL the Pats, and by extension, BOB, go to this offensive look to open up the secondary and take advantage of his "deep ball accuracy" in conjunction with the Pats running game. Can Mac do it? Does he have the athletic skills necessary? I might even show up to one of those early shorts and T-shirt practices to see if we see any "meshes" being done during drills.

 

[Kasmir]

I was HOPING that this thread would create a football discussion based on the depth of the information found in the OP. It was a fascinating and more importantly, a great chance for EVERYONE here to learn more about how offenses are formulated, structured and run. It was a LEARNING opportunity.

To that end I am BEGGING all of you to do just that. Go back and read (or re-read) the damned article and let's talk about that. I'll start:

One of the points Connolly makes is connecting the Pats and the RPO series. These are 2 words RARELY mentioned in the same breath. Yet Connolly makes a case that not only would Mac make this offense work, he'd THRIVE in it. And to make his point more emphatic, he pointed out that he's ALREADY thrived in it at Alabama.

So the question is WILL the Pats, and by extension, BOB, go to this offensive look to open up the secondary and take advantage of his "deep ball accuracy" in conjunction with the Pats running game. Can Mac do it? Does he have the athletic skills necessary? I might even show up to one of those early shorts and T-shirt practices to see if we see any "meshes" being done during drills.

Yes, the absence of any technical football response is quite disappointing. I know there are other folks here besides you who could and should contribute to this discussion.

I found this to be particularly interesting:

Back in his Alabama days, Jones had two elite traits: Playing as the trigger man on RPOs; driving the ball down the field. He operated quickly, both on quick-hitting RPOs and in reading out the shape of the defense and the geometry of his receivers on those deep-breaking options.

I can't recall anyone here being so specific about what Mac was good at -- and what is absent in his use here:

The Patriots have installed precisely zero of those core concepts into their offense with Jones at the helm – beyond the rudimentary adjustments-vs-coverage that are featured in every side’s playbook.

In Jones’ time in New England, they have run precisely two (!) downfield RPOs.

Wow, an actual schematic explanation of how and why Mac was an effective downfield passer at Alabama. Everyone else has just said "Waddle, Smith etc, anyone could do what Mac did with those receivers"

I also note about Mac's athleticism that 40 times for him per-draft had a huge range, with a low of 4.68s and a high of 4.9s. And in any case while an RPO offense is helped by a QB who can run, the primary option is handoff/pitch vs pass based on how the defense responds.

 

[p8ryts]

I was HOPING that this thread would create a football discussion based on the depth of the information found in the OP. It was a fascinating and more importantly, a great chance for EVERYONE here to learn more about how offenses are formulated, structured and run. It was a LEARNING opportunity.

To that end I am BEGGING all of you to do just that. Go back and read (or re-read) the damned article and let's talk about that. I'll start:

One of the points Connolly makes is connecting the Pats and the RPO series. These are 2 words RARELY mentioned in the same breath. Yet Connolly makes a case that not only would Mac make this offense work, he'd THRIVE in it. And to make his point more emphatic, he pointed out that he's ALREADY thrived in it at Alabama.

So the question is WILL the Pats, and by extension, BOB, go to this offensive look to open up the secondary and take advantage of his "deep ball accuracy" in conjunction with the Pats running game. Can Mac do it? Does he have the athletic skills necessary? I might even show up to one of those early shorts and T-shirt practices to see if we see any "meshes" being done during drills.

Okay, I went back and read it. I watched all the clips. Good points but the devil is in the details. That last clip against the Bengals was one of many that concerned me with Mac reading the blitz. I remember one time it appeared he didn't even look to the right and got blitzed from there. At this point, I don't want to focus on what Mac and the team didn't do last year. I hope BOB and Mac are great. I want the Patriots to win, I don't care who gets the credit. Sometimes I think we all make football too complicated. Before Brady left many fans complained the offense was too complicated. Last year they complained that it was too simple. Last year, fans complained there was no pre snap motion. Unless I misunderstood, the article stated that an advantage of the empty set was that it didn't involve a lot of motion and caused the defensive set to remain static. It's man on man, coordinated effort, DO YOUR JOB!!!

 

[patfanken]

Okay, I went back and read it. I watched all the clips. Good points but the devil is in the details. That last clip against the Bengals was one of many that concerned me with Mac reading the blitz. I remember one time it appeared he didn't even look to the right and got blitzed from there. At this point, I don't want to focus on what Mac and the team didn't do last year. I hope BOB and Mac are great. I want the Patriots to win, I don't care who gets the credit. Sometimes I think we all make football too complicated. Before Brady left many fans complained the offense was too complicated. Last year they complained that it was too simple. Last year, fans complained there was no pre snap motion. Unless I misunderstood, the article stated that an advantage of the empty set was that it didn't involve a lot of motion and caused the defensive set to remain static. It's man on man, coordinated effort, DO YOUR JOB!!!

Just a thought here, but when you create offensive passing routes one of the things that CAN go into it is making your QB reads easier to see potential blitz combinations so the QB can either change blocking responsibilities or be mentally prepared for fast pressure. I could have been this next level coaching and prep work that was lacking last year.....or not. I don't know, but it's an explanation at any rate

 

[Zuma]

This thread should be a sticky for the article alone. @Ian

 

[IcyPatriot]

Obie's gonna get Mac killed or give him PTSD if they go empty as often as he might want to go empty here. All the rest is just words.

Can we call him Obi Wan Kenobi? Or just Obi'wan

 

[n1997y]

Can we call him Obi Wan Kenobi? Or just Obi'wan

I want to see headlines proclaiming “Obie Won…” after he calls a good game

 

[Tunescribe]

I was HOPING that this thread would create a football discussion based on the depth of the information found in the OP. It was a fascinating and more importantly, a great chance for EVERYONE here to learn more about how offenses are formulated, structured and run. It was a LEARNING opportunity.

To that end I am BEGGING all of you to do just that. Go back and read (or re-read) the damned article and let's talk about that. I'll start:

One of the points Connolly makes is connecting the Pats and the RPO series. These are 2 words RARELY mentioned in the same breath. Yet Connolly makes a case that not only would Mac make this offense work, he'd THRIVE in it. And to make his point more emphatic, he pointed out that he's ALREADY thrived in it at Alabama.

So the question is WILL the Pats, and by extension, BOB, go to this offensive look to open up the secondary and take advantage of his "deep ball accuracy" in conjunction with the Pats running game. Can Mac do it? Does he have the athletic skills necessary? I might even show up to one of those early shorts and T-shirt practices to see if we see any "meshes" being done during drills.

What I see as a potential shortcoming is Mac occasionally NEEDING to run from empty and being able to succeed while absorbing the inevitable punishment. It seems an important aspect in that formation/scheme maintaining full pressure on a defense and Mac is no Jalen Hurts in this respect. But maybe he can master the passing component to where it's less of a factor.

The ill-informed Mac haters -- @crawhammer @Triumph @PatsFan2 , etc. -- need to read this article and learn some things, not only about what happened last season but what this quarterback potentially brings to the table in his third year this time with a professional OC in charge.

 

[PatsFan2]

What I see as a potential shortcoming is Mac occasionally NEEDING to run from empty and being able to succeed while absorbing the inevitable punishment. It seems an important aspect in that formation/scheme maintaining full pressure on a defense and Mac is no Jalen Hurts in this respect. But maybe he can master the passing component to where it's less of a factor.

The ill-informed Mac haters -- @crawhammer @Triumph @PatsFan2 , etc. -- need to read this article and learn some things, not only about what happened last season but what this quarterback potentially brings to the table in his third year this time with a professional OC in charge.

Tunescribe can we stop the negativity??

 

[Tunescribe]

Tunescribe can we stop the negativity??

That is what I'm trying to do by asking you to read the article.

 

[captain stone]

Can we call him Obi Wan Kenobi? Or just Obi'wan

As long as it’s not Obie No, for calling another empty shotgun, 5-wide formation on 3rd down…

 

[n1997y]

As long as it’s not Obie No, for calling another empty shotgun, 5-wide formation on 3rd down…

If it is, by season end fans may be chanting Oh Be Gone

 

[Huckleberry1]

Makes sense to me, it looked like they were moving sideways all last season.

 

[Real fan 02]

Lets see it on the field.

Lets see wins and beating post season contenders. A high 3rd down conversion rate, 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives.

Your right ?? on that... but a good efficient offense will always put a team in good positions to win games..

Therefore the defense just has to do thier part. I'm of the mind this defense will always show up more often than not.

 

[patfanken]

Let's talk a second about another defensive concept that teams are using more these days. Zone blitzing and overload blitz. The goal of each is to create 2 on 1 situations using the minimum amount of rushers, with the goal of having some offensive pass blockers blocking air, while on the OTHER side you create numbers issues like 3 on 2's that create either actual pressure or "perceived" pressure and gets the ball out ft'ast.

It's been implied in several posts that most coaches want their QB's to diagnose the defense, understand their route options, identify the correct receiver, and THEN get the ball out in about 2 and half seconds.....or less. I hope you can see just how difficult that is for anyone to process and how VALUABLE experience AND continuity are to that process. While it seemed so easy for Tom Brady to go to the LOS and cypher out all these options, it ACTUALLY was a process literally DECADES in the making and tens of thousands of reps and tens of thousands of hours watching film.

This isn't going to automatically happen just because Patricia is gone or BOB is here that Mac will suddenly become prescient at the LOS and it will look like 2014 again. This is going to take TIME

OK Getting back to the various blitz packages, Rex Ryan was a master of overload, zone blitz and caused some issue for Brady and the Pats while in NY before Brady and the coaches started to master the concept and ran him out of town.

Creating offensive concepts that allow the QB to get out of bad plays or blocking schemes are part and parcel of a complete offensive system. Now here's the difference between what BOB inherited in 2010 and what he's inherited in 2023. Back in 2010 he had a QB with over 10 years in the league who has been in the same offensive system.But he also inherited an OL with some questions as well In 2023 he has a QB with 2 years experience and on his 3rd OC in 3 years. He also has an OL with a few more questions.and a new OL coach.

I guess the point I'm making is that BOB's job is a LOT harder now than it was then. He has more teaching to do, and more offense to install. The more I think on it. Then more aspects of the RPO make sense. It would be a simpler offense to install with easier reads to start with. My other point is while the offense is bound to look better than last year, its a low bar, quantum leaps are going to take longer to happen.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Lets see it on the field.

Lets see wins and beating post season contenders. A high 3rd down conversion rate, 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives.

I get why “4th quarter comebacks” are a thing, but at the same time you should not be in a position that needs a comeback. Somethings not being done by someone or several someones. And I agree, let’s see it on the field.

 

[Tunescribe]

Let's talk a second about another defensive concept that teams are using more these days. Zone blitzing and overload blitz. The goal of each is to create 2 on 1 situations using the minimum amount of rushers, with the goal of having some offensive pass blockers blocking air, while on the OTHER side you create numbers issues like 3 on 2's that create either actual pressure or "perceived" pressure and gets the ball out ft'ast.

It's been implied in several posts that most coaches want their QB's to diagnose the defense, understand their route options, identify the correct receiver, and THEN get the ball out in about 2 and half seconds.....or less. I hope you can see just how difficult that is for anyone to process and how VALUABLE experience AND continuity are to that process. While it seemed so easy for Tom Brady to go to the LOS and cypher out all these options, it ACTUALLY was a process literally DECADES in the making and tens of thousands of reps and tens of thousands of hours watching film.

This isn't going to automatically happen just because Patricia is gone or BOB is here that Mac will suddenly become prescient at the LOS and it will look like 2014 again. This is going to take TIME

OK Getting back to the various blitz packages, Rex Ryan was a master of overload, zone blitz and caused some issue for Brady and the Pats while in NY before Brady and the coaches started to master the concept and ran him out of town.

Creating offensive concepts that allow the QB to get out of bad plays or blocking schemes are part and parcel of a complete offensive system. Now here's the difference between what BOB inherited in 2010 and what he's inherited in 2023. Back in 2010 he had a QB with over 10 years in the league who has been in the same offensive system.But he also inherited an OL with some questions as well In 2023 he has a QB with 2 years experience and on his 3rd OC in 3 years. He also has an OL with a few more questions.and a new OL coach.

I guess the point I'm making is that BOB's job is a LOT harder now than it was then. He has more teaching to do, and more offense to install. The more I think on it. Then more aspects of the RPO make sense. It would be a simpler offense to install with easier reads to start with. My other point is while the offense is bound to look better than last year, its a low bar, quantum leaps are going to take longer to happen.

I think it helps that Mac and BOB have Alabama in common and will be incorporating concepts they're both familiar with. This will ease some of the learning curve re. third OC in three years.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

"will always show up more often than not"

Great line

 

[Real fan 02]

Great line

I just try to be a realistic fan... I can't wait for the season to come