The Brady > Mahomes thread - It's not even close

[crawhammer]

Again you are making up the rules as you go along. Who says head-to-head in the playoffs is the tie-breaker? The better tiebreaker is what I said in the PM I sent you. That is far more important to a player's legacy. Your assertions would make a lot more sense in tennis or golf. Football is the ultimate team sport with 52 other guys and at least a dozen coaches having an impact on a game. You're just grasping for straws because you are afraid of Mahomes and are desperate to come up with something. And you are COMPLETELY discounting Brady's 3 super bowl losses, which is a part of his legacy.

You need to be clear... are you arguing we can name a GOAT or not?

Overall too you're arguing a hypothetical, starting with Mahomes replicating his elite play for the next 10-15 seasons and winning multiple more Super Bowls with a gauntlet of other elite quarterbacks standing in his way. He might get hurt, his athleticism could decline, his luck could run out with all of his unconventional passes, Reid could retire and they hire some retreat like Todd Bowles. Maybe Josh Allen finally puts it all together and wins multiple rings or Lamar with finally the makings of a competent offense around him may break through with multiple rings... Burrow, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence, Fields, etc... multiple rings collectively. The overall odds just aren't in Mahomes favor.

He hasn't exactly torn it up in the Super Bowl either. And we've seen him epically collapse in the postseason (second half of the 2021 AFCCG).

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah I wrote this...

No. You wrote THIS and that is what derailed it, dufus.

Whatever. It's still not a prime-time game and there are at least 5 games in that time slot. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Go to the Mahomes thread. It's the only place you belong.

 

[DaBruinz]

Would be funny if this weren't true...

In Both cases, the NFL handed those guys the wins. LITERALLY. Any REAL fan knows this.

 

[DaBruinz]

In no sport is the most number of rings considered the dispositive factor in who is the GOAT.

Baseball - Yogi Berra is not the GOAT

Basketball - Bill Russell is not the GOAT

Hockey - Henri Richard is not the GOAT

Even in Football, the most number of rings means nothing at virtually every position:

RB - Jim Brown does not have the most NFL championships

WR - Jerry Rice does not have the most Super Bowls

Defense - LT does not have the most number of Super Bowls for a defensive player

TE - Tony Gonzalez does not have the most number of rings.

So tell me, why does Mahomes need to get to 8? He can end up as the GOAT after 5 or 6 as long as he eviscerates Brady's numbers, which he is going to do.

Bill Russell is most certainly the GOAT of Basketball. It's Certainly not LaFraud. You can tell YOU'VE never watched the guy play.
Berra us considered amongst the GOAT at Catcher.
Richard had the pleasure of playing at a time where Free Agency wasn't a big thing in the NHL. Not to mention so few teams.

Mahomes isn't going to "eviscerate" anything. Except maybe his own knees.

 

[DaBruinz]

Again you are making up the rules as you go along. Who says head-to-head in the playoffs is the tie-breaker? The better tiebreaker is what I said in the PM I sent you. That is far more important to a player's legacy. Your assertions would make a lot more sense in tennis or golf. Football is the ultimate team sport with 52 other guys and at least a dozen coaches having an impact on a game. You're just grasping for straws because you are afraid of Mahomes and are desperate to come up with something. And you are COMPLETELY discounting Brady's 3 super bowl losses, which is a part of his legacy.

2007: Ref admitted after the game he should have blown Manning down for being in the grasp
2017: Foles was lined up illegally. Refs didn't call it. NFL violated the rules by using a different set of rules to define a reception than had been used during the season. This gave the Eagles 2 extra TDs.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Basketball - Bill Russell is not the GOAT

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with that. In this case, the number of titles is reflective of that player's all time rank.

You're otherwise correct, it's certainly not the only barometer. LOTS of greats who never won a title due to no fault of their own.

Plus athletes who found themselves in fortunate circumstances and yes took advantage of them.

My personal criteria is, who do want in there in a game you must win? And/or, whom would you pick to start a team?

With the game, the season, the championship all on the line and all the pressure in the world on the field/court/diamond/ice, who's the player you most trust to get the job done?

Mahomes has a solid resume - the results speak for themselves. He is prolific like Fouts and Marino. And, he's been instrumental in two titles like Eli. Do I consider him in the top ten all time quarterbacks who could win you a game for the championship?

No. Not even close. Maybe top 25. Maybe not.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

QB is the most important position in all of professional team sports. And you just want to throw dirt on Brady's 2-0 vs Mahomes in the postseason. No one is doing that in the real world. It counts. Brady beat Mahomes in a Super Bowl.

I think it's easy to be seduced by numbers.

Eli 2-0 vs. Brady in the SB, Bradshaw 2-0 vs. Staubach in the SB.

I think our criteria must be more sophisticated to be accurate. Nobody thinks Eli is better than Tom. And I don't rate Terry above Roger.

The game is nothing like what it used to be. Mahomes will retire with less total injuries than quarterbacks of previous generations had in six games.

Layne, Unitas, Montana, Brady, Starr - I trust them to win a game, along with Grogan and Flutie.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

So tell me, why does Mahomes need to get to 8? He can end up as the GOAT after 5 or 6 as long as he eviscerates Brady's numbers, which he is going to do.

To be fair, I think Mahomes deserves credit for making plays to win games, like Elway. And in both cases, they found themselves in a good situation with good teammates and coaches.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

This always makes me laugh

I need one of these with Michael on Larry's shoulders

 

[Ian]

Placeholder

 

[Zuma]

Was looking forward to another Brady or Mahomes thread….thanks !

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Was looking forward to another Brady or Mahomes thread….thanks !

 

[Zuma]

\o/

 

[Ian]

Was looking forward to another Brady or Mahomes thread….thanks !

Needed a landing spot to dump all these moving forward.

 

[Zuma]

Needed a landing spot to dump all these moving forward.

You are a scholar and gentlemen...thank you!

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I like the guy who wants to bargain.... "why does Mahomes have to win 8 instead of 5 or 6 plus numbers?"

dude talk to me when he is officially number 2 behind TFB after one-for-the-thumbing. And yeah I'll probably say shup and get at least 7 to be in the conversation.
But how comical to want to have that conversation. Dude, you know that 2 just looks like a lot compared to 1 or 0, right?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

You are a scholar and gentlemen...thank you!

Oh I am taking the opportunity and taunting, myself

B/c offseason

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Not sure I understand @Ian 's title. Mahomes is beating Brady in most categories that matter through their first 6 years.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-patrick-mahomes-comparison-super-bowls-mvp

A comparison of their first six seasons:

Super Bowl Victories: Brady 3, Mahomes 2. Edge- Brady

Super Bowl MVPs: Brady 2, Mahomes 2. - Edge- Tied

AFC Championship Games: Brady 3, Mahomes 5. Edge - Mahomes

AFC Championships: Brady 3, Mahomes 3. Edge - Tied


NFL MVP Awards: Brady 0, Mahomes 2. Edge - Mahomes

All-Pro Teams: Brady 1, Mahomes 3. Edge - Mahomes

Regular-Season Record: Brady 58-20, Mahomes 64-16. Edge - Mahomes

Passing Yards: Brady 18,035, Mahomes 24,241. Edge - Mahomes

TD Passes: Brady 123, Mahomes 192. Edge - Mahomes

Completion Percentage: Brady 61.9, Mahomes 66.3. Edge - Mahomes

Interceptions: Brady 66, Mahomes 49. Edge - Mahomes


Besides number of super bowls through their first 6 years, where exactly does Brady have the edge? @Ian care to comment?

 

[Ian]

Not sure I understand @Ian 's title. Mahomes is beating Brady in most categories that matter through their first 6 years.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-patrick-mahomes-comparison-super-bowls-mvp

A comparison of their first six seasons:

Super Bowl Victories: Brady 3, Mahomes 2.

Super Bowl MVPs: Brady 2, Mahomes 2.

AFC Championship Games: Brady 3, Mahomes 5.

AFC Championships: Brady 3, Mahomes 3.


NFL MVP Awards: Brady 0, Mahomes 2.

All-Pro Teams: Brady 1, Mahomes 3.

Regular-Season Record: Brady 58-20, Mahomes 64-16.

Passing Yards: Brady 18,035, Mahomes 24,241.

TD Passes: Brady 123, Mahomes 192.

Completion Percentage: Brady 61.9, Mahomes 66.3.

Interceptions: Brady 66, Mahomes 49.


Besides number of super bowls through their first 6 years, where exactly does Brady have the edge? @Ian care to comment?

Not real worried about it. He's got a couple of things working against him. One is continuity coaching-wise because Andy Reid is an underrated offensive coach, and two is his style of play. He's already been banged up, and unless he goes on an absolute tear over these next 4-5 years, it's going to be difficult. Reid will retire, and he'll probably deal with at least a few seasons mixed in where he's hurt.

So that's what's going to get you/him. Brady lucked out and got together with Belichick a lot younger. I think you're going to see some struggles once Reid is done, and you're going to have to deal with teams like Buffalo and Cincinnati - and potentially even New England at times - being a thorn in his side.

As a result, that's a lot of obstacles in his way to even put a dent in the numbers Brady's put up. It's like the Lebron/Jordan argument. Mahomes will likely never be anything other than a potentially strong #2 at best. Not to mention that winning 7 titles would be tough, and I just don't see it happening.

And you can argue all you want about how Brady won them. He still won them, and they're forever on his mantle. Can't take them away.

 

[Sect140]

In no sport is the most number of rings considered the dispositive factor in who is the GOAT.

Baseball - Yogi Berra is not the GOAT

Basketball - Bill Russell is not the GOAT

Hockey - Henri Richard is not the GOAT

Even in Football, the most number of rings means nothing at virtually every position:

RB - Jim Brown does not have the most NFL championships

WR - Jerry Rice does not have the most Super Bowls

Defense - LT does not have the most number of Super Bowls for a defensive player

TE - Tony Gonzalez does not have the most number of rings.

So tell me, why does Mahomes need to get to 8? He can end up as the GOAT after 5 or 6 as long as he eviscerates Brady's numbers, which he is going to do.

I meant his numbers, dipwad. And he has 5 years, 2 rings, 3 trips, 2 SB MVPs, 2 regular season MVPs, 3 NFL first team all pros. Besides 1 SB ring differential, he's pretty much dominated Brady numbers-wise through their first five years.



Don't care about head-to-head. Brady doesn’t even have a winning record against the other great QB of his generation, Peyton, head-to-head in AFCCGs. Plus Brady is 2-9 against the QBs in my signature. If Brady dominated every QB he ever faced, you'd have a much stronger argument.

If the two of you want to take this to the Mahomes thread I’d be happy to continue our conversation there.

So you don’t care about head to head yet you are always stating Brady’s record against certain QB’s.

The amount of Super Bowl wins shouldn’t be a factor. The only other fanbase I‘ve ever heard say that is the Dolphins fans.

If you truly believe Patrick is better, than stop with the rings don’t matter, you should be saying that you have no doubt Patrick will win more than Brady, then we can all table this until your guy has retired. Early on I always said as Pats fans we can’t have the Brady vs Montana discussion until Brady wins his fourth. You come across like you don’t think your guy has a chance for seven.