Yet another Brady argument thread

[All3Phases]

You watched the Tennessee game, right? Yikes...

Ya that was 2019 not 2021. I also think we can all agree that his level of buy in was poor in 2019, just like it was in 2022. Also another variable that could or could not have changed

Again, would have been tough. He would have fought and put up a Brady-esque effort, but he wouldn't have had the bullets around him. And I doubt they would have ended up with the top seed, which would have required three wins to win the Conference. He lucked out having all that around him in Tampa. And even with everyone healthy defensively that year, it would have been a chore to keep up with and beat Buffalo.

Honestly, being here might have hurt his legacy because each year of getting bounced would have only hurt him further. That win in Tampa was big. So again, gotta put this one in the barn and be glad things fell the way they did.

I am very glad

 

[All3Phases]

Then, there you go

That would have been a lot. The guy was nearly 20-years younger at that time and that defensive group was pretty solid. The only thing that honestly beat them that year was the flu at the end. They didn't have that type of defense this time around, and yes, that is a major difference.

Again, not guaranteeing anything, I think they would’ve been a tough out in the playoffs. If you give me belichick and Brady in a 1 game scenario, I like those odds. But again, alternate universe

 

[Ring 6]

They could have, provided they extended him at a level that would have been ridiculous (where the contract went beyond 44 or 45). But as you mentioned, that money is still coming due. And they couldn't have added that level of talent around him.

They were lucky during part of that second run due to some of the younger guys they had and I think, @All3Phases, that's a point that's being missed. You can keep kicking the can down the road, but the money comes due eventually and causes a down year (just like we saw in 2020) when they had no money, other than what they managed to pay Newton.

So yes, having Brady would have been great, but the club did benefit by getting Jones in 2020 at #15. With Brady here, it's a lost season for him and the Patriots might have missed out on Jones, which would have set them back considering, as I mentioned, there hasn't really been a quality QB sitting in that 10-20 draft slot the last couple of seasons.

Again, be thankful Brady went to Tampa and won the ring. Otherwise, as I mentioned, the rest is hindsight with impossible to predict hypotheticals that at the end of the day - four years later - isn't worth arguing about.

You can only do so much to mitigate the cap hit of what you pay.
Pushing huge cap hits on a 40+ year old player out (and you can’t push it only spread it out) if you decide to give up the future for one run with a team that’s close is a consideration but that’s not where the patriots were. They were in the pay the piper stage after 8 straight AFCCGs with 5 SBs and 3 titles.
Killing the future and not winning now is just foolhardy.

 

[Ian]

Again, not guaranteeing anything, I think they would’ve been a tough out in the playoffs. If you give me belichick and Brady in a 1 game scenario, I like those odds. But again, alternate universe

Would have been a big ask without Gronk and Edelman. I agree, would have been a tough out, but imagine the way he would have been viewed had it ended with 2-3 more years of coming up just short. That would have sucked.

Again, everything happens for a reason and it was cool seeing him win it all.

 

[All3Phases]

Would have been a big ask without Gronk and Edelman. I agree, would have been a tough out, but imagine the way he would have been viewed had it ended with 2-3 more years of coming up just short. That would have sucked.

Don’t misinterpret me arguing that the possibilities with me not liking the way things turned out.

Again, everything happens for a reason and it was cool seeing him win it all.

Agree

 

[Ian]

You can only do so much to mitigate the cap hit of what you pay.
Pushing huge cap hits on a 40+ year old player out (and you can’t push it only spread it out) if you decide to give up the future for one run with a team that’s close is a consideration but that’s not where the patriots were. They were in the pay the piper stage after 8 straight AFCCGs with 5 SBs and 3 titles.
Killing the future and not winning now is just foolhardy.

Yep. No Gronk, and Edelman on a bad knee, and then neither the year after. Would likely have been two frustrating years even if they had tried to patch it. Again, I’m good with how things turned out. Hated it at the time, but hindsight being what it is, it could have been way worse for both sides.

 

[Ring 6]

My entire argument, was a disagreement on him choosing to leave or not. I’m over him being here, and was happy to see him win in Tampa. I just have a knack to not let arguments go. You agree with me on 90% of what I’ve argued over the last 2 days

He chose to leave, that’s a fact. You just seem to want to waste a lot of time arguing that he wanted to stay for some unknown reason. I mean why was he secretly cavorting with the Dolphins instead of working out a deal here if he wanted to stay.

The real conclusion is we agree he chose to leave and you are trying to absolve him of it and you haven’t come close to convincing me.

 

[Ian]

Don’t misinterpret me arguing that the possibilities with me not liking the way things turned out.

I hear you, but imagine being disappointed on both counts

 

[All3Phases]

He chose to leave, that’s a fact. You just seem to want to waste a lot of time arguing that he wanted to stay for some unknown reason. I mean why was he secretly cavorting with the Dolphins instead of working out a deal here if he wanted to stay.

Why are you wasting time arguing back?
Why didn’t they sign him to a long term deal before 2019?
How could he continue to negotiate a deal the team had 0 interest in? Dating back years
Why didn’t they extend a matching offer to Tampa?

The real conclusion is we agree he chose to leave and you are trying to absolve him of it and you haven’t come close to convincing me.

He signed elsewhere because the team no longer wanted him. We agree

 

[Ring 6]

He chose not to sign a contract offer that was much worse than one he received in Tampa, after years of the team not extending offers that were of his interest. We can agree, they ripped the band aid off if that’s how you want to word it

The financials were what they were, and instead of throwing money at a wall and hoping something sticks, they would’ve had to be a little more specific in who they wanted to target. But to your last point; we both have seen them win with less, we don’t need to rehash, but 06 was an awful offensive roster that competed, 01-04 the offensive rosters didn’t have any stand out offensive stars. It’s not like we haven’t seen them compete with average offensive talent

The 2019 team was the worst in many years. 2020 deteriorated further and having spent 50 million in Brady there wouldn’t have been resources to come anywhere near as talented as 2019 in 2021. You can pretend it would magically happen but 50 million less to spend stops the rebuild in its tracks.

 

[Ian]

He chose to leave, that’s a fact. You just seem to want to waste a lot of time arguing that he wanted to stay for some unknown reason.

He would have stayed if they had offered him a long-term deal. But Belichick finally decided to make a tough call and obviously, it sucked given who he was and everything he did. But it had to happen eventually and the hit would have been tougher if they hadn’t ended it the way they did contract-wise.

However, it obviously worked out for Brady, so whatever.

 

[Tunescribe]

Will you be posting the same thing on any of Rings post?

I have him on ignore.

 

[Ring 6]

Why are you wasting time arguing back?
Why didn’t they sign him to a long term deal before 2019?
How could he continue to negotiate a deal the team had 0 interest in? Dating back years
Why didn’t they extend a matching offer to Tampa?

He signed elsewhere because the team no longer wanted him. We agree

They kept him for 20 years. He signed numerous contracts. Including one in 2019.
He told them he was gone and wasn’t coming back there was nothing to match. But according to you they offered him more money.

 

[All3Phases]

I have him on ignore.

Ha fair

 

[All3Phases]

They kept him for 20 years. He signed numerous contracts. Including one in 2019.
He told them he was gone and wasn’t coming back there was nothing to match. But according to you they offered him more money.

Rodgers hated it in Green Bay, until they offered him a great deal. The patriots never offered brady the contract he wanted for 3 offseasons in a row. Him caving and taking the yearly deals doesn’t mean he was happy with them. What transpired in 2019, was clearly boiled over from being unhappy with the team for multiple years. After all that, the Patriots never put the ball in Brady’s court and gave him an equal offer

 

[Ring 6]

He would have stayed if they had offered him a long-term deal. But Belichick finally decided to make a tough call and obviously, it sucked given who he was and everything he did. But it had to happen eventually and the hit would have been tougher if they hadn’t ended it the way they did contract-wise.

However, it obviously worked out for Brady, so whatever.

I disagree. I see no evidence of him trying to stay.
If it was as reported that the patriots offered 2 years and 53 mill and he accepted 2/50 but he really wanted to stay at the least when Kraft says what will it take he says guarantee it.
If you really want to stay you try to work it out.
He collided with Miami he put his house on the market.
He wanted out.

I think he wanted to play somewhere else before he retired and see what he could do elsewhere. Why do people not want to accept that?

 

[All3Phases]

I disagree. I see no evidence of him trying to stay.
If it was as reported that the patriots offered 2 years and 53 mill and he accepted 2/50 but he really wanted to stay at the least when Kraft says what will it take he says guarantee it.

You’re assuming they didn’t talk for Multiple years about these contracts and wants. If the team wanted him, they could’ve very easily extended themselves, and they didn’t come close to doing so

If you really want to stay you try to work it out.
He collided with Miami he put his house on the market.
He wanted out.

If you really want the player, you extend yourself for him. There’s 2 sides to your logic

I think he wanted to play somewhere else before he retired and see what he could do elsewhere. Why do people not want to accept that?

Because based on major reporters, all covering the team with the same info, he wanted a long term deal here, why would you ask for long term deals if you didn’t want to stay?

 

[Ring 6]

Rodgers hated it in Green Bay, until they offered him a great deal. The patriots never offered brady the contract he wanted for 3 offseasons in a row. Him caving and taking the yearly deals doesn’t mean he was happy with them. What transpired in 2019, was clearly boiled over from being unhappy with the team for multiple years. After all that, the Patriots never put the ball in Brady’s court and gave him an equal offer

So now you are inside Brady’s head and saying he didn’t want to sign the deals he signed. Seriously? And when did he tell you he was unhappy with the team for years? Why did he keep signing contracts?
They offered him more money than he signed for. More money. That’s a fact.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re assuming they didn’t talk for Multiple years about these contracts and wants. If the team wanted him, they could’ve very easily extended themselves, and they didn’t come close to doing so

If you really want the player, you extend yourself for him. There’s 2 sides to your logic

Because based on major reporters, all covering the team with the same info, he wanted a long term deal here, why would you ask for long term deals if you didn’t want to stay?

He signed contracts in 2010, 2013, 2016, 2019. Suddenly he was unhappy for years?
If the player doesn’t want to stay there is nothing you can do. He literally told them no matter what they do he is leaving.
Conveniently you dismiss that with he was butt hurt. If all it was was guaranteeing and he wanted to say he would have said Bob, guarantee 2 years.

Back to rumors. Ugh.

 

[All3Phases]

So now you are inside Brady’s head and saying he didn’t want to sign the deals he signed. Seriously? And when did he tell you he was unhappy with the team for years? Why did he keep signing contracts?

Nope, I’m again consistent with the reporting, which you clearly ignored all these years

They offered him more money than he signed for. More money. That’s a fact.

Prove it