I think that Mac is the last chance for Belichick.

[Ian]

Mac is on a one year tryout. The 5th year option is now projected to be closer to $35M-40M. If he has another mediocre season, they will not pick that up.

I'd have to agree albeit I didn't see it quite as "mediocre" as you say. Still, Jones is going to have to have both a terrific year while proving the needle is pointed up and it's probably going to have to include some "moments" this year to instill long-term confidence to warrant that type of potential salary. I've been a supporter of his, but I do feel like that's the one thing that's been missing. He's going to need a few of them next year, along with obviously a playoff run that will also require a victory, preferably one that is due to his play and not in spite of it. Otherwise, they may just view the economics of it and move on.

 

[Joker]

looks like Crawhammer is setting up his next 10,000 post avalanche of "mediocrity".....to wit "Patriots should have signed Lamar Jackson and listened to ME!"

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think it's anywhere as binary as that.

Mac's comps during the draft were QBs like Derek Carr and Chad Pennington.

If he tracks to that projection we're a borderline playoff team on a good year, and I think this is what Bill is telling Bob behind the scenes.

If Kraft decides BB's ways of doing things are no longer effective then he has to blow the entire thing up, since everyone in the building is trained to do things BB's way.

I have a hard time seeing that happen except if there is a total team collapse, and even then I think BB could talk Bob into a second chance.

And Kraft could see that Tua was basically the same as Mac during Mac's rookie year until he got Tyreek Hill and that Jalen Hurts was really nothing until he got AJ Brown. Kraft isn't blind to see an elite or near elite WR can make average QB look special. Mac is on par with Tua and Tua is a stud with two stud WRs.

Belichick can tell Kraft all he wants, but Kraft is watching the rest of the league. He sees that the teams that are successful have stud WRs and even an average QB can look great with a strong offensive cast around him.

Meanwhile Belichick is still trying to convince Kraft that the Pats can win with a strong defense and a ball control offense. Belichick and his style of coaching is being evaluated this year as much as Mac Jones. I bet the Krafts, especially Jonathan, are starting to wonder if the game has passed Belichick by.

If Belichick cannot win this way, the Kraft may decide to move on from Belichick and either promote Mayo and get a hotshot OC or hire a hotshot offensive head coach.

 

[203Pat]

We're at diverging views for a couple of basic reasons.

#1. I like Bill's drafting; I think he's at the very top of the league.

#2. The free agent miscues have little to no impact on this team. Agholor & Jonnu are gone. Those are non stories at this point. Judon is still here as is Mills and Bourne.

As for WRs, this is what I don't understand about Patriot fans. Do you really believe Belichick doesn't want a Tyreek Hill?

Of course he does. WRs are a rare asset in this league. You can't acquire one easily and if you do, it's going to cost you a #1 draft pick and $25m a year.

The trade of a #1 pick for Marquise Brown + a $20m+ contract just doesn't seem like good business to me. It is positively nutty.

I think the last few drafts haven't been bad and it is hard to judge them this soon but there was a pretty long stretch of drafts that didn't amount to much for us. 2019 was a mess outside of a couple productive seasons for Damien Harris. 2018 wasn't great with two subpar first round picks and then Bentley being the only solid player. 2017 was basically nonexistent. 2016 we got a good guard and a capable backup guard. That was 5 drafts that netted up a role player LB, a decent but oft injured RB, a good guard, then a string of sub par starters or backups. I wouldn't put that stretch anywhere near the top of the league.

Lol how did the free agent miscues have "little to no impact on the team"? We had guys making a bunch of money and getting little to no production out of them? How does having players on the team who basically have to get playing time doing nothing have no impact?

Do I believe Bill would take Tyreek Hill on his team if money weren't a factor? Yes 10 times out of 10. Do I believe Bill values the position enough to pay a premium for Hill or any other elite receiver? No. Bill does not seem to value the position. I wonder if Bill didnt whiff in 2019 and did take Deebo, AJ Brown, or DK Metcalf if he would have actually paid them when it was time or would he have let them walk.

 

[203Pat]

I see it really differently. You are suggesting there is a chance Bill is back, I'm gonna say Bill is back unless things go disastrously wrong.

If Bill is on such shaky ground, why isn't he gone already? He didn't make the playoffs last year, he made really bad decisions with regard to coaching, yet he's still in charge. There's not much of a difference between 71 and 72, especially to someone as old as Kraft.

Kraft's comments, March 27th:




Source: Here’s what Patriots owner Robert Kraft had to say about Bill Belichick’s future, the Matt Patricia 'experiment,’ and more

Kraft's comments, March 29th:



Source: Kraft sets high expectations for 2022 Patriots

So he definitely is trying to set expectations that he wants/hopes/expects to be in the playoffs, but IMO he's not saying if BB misses the playoffs he's gone, he's being far too supportive of Bill for that to be the overall message. He says in each statement that he believes in Bill. Firing him just for missing the playoffs would be an admission that he himself misplaced his belief, which would be admitting he made a major error in judgement. IMO he'd be far more detached and distant if he was as close to firing Bill as you suggest he is.

I see the point you're making and it seems both of us read the same quotes and get something different from them. To me it seemed like Kraft cam about as close as he could to an ultimatum of make the playoffs or that's it but I understand your interpretation as well. I am sure Bill has earned the benefit of the doubt from Kraft but Kraft couldn't have loved what he saw last year and I can't imagine he is going to head toward the end of his life wanting to watch mediocre teams on the field just so he doesn't have to make the difficult decision of moving on from Bill.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the last few drafts haven't been bad and it is hard to judge them this soon but there was a pretty long stretch of drafts that didn't amount to much for us. 2019 was a mess outside of a couple productive seasons for Damien Harris. 2018 wasn't great with two subpar first round picks and then Bentley being the only solid player. 2017 was basically nonexistent. 2016 we got a good guard and a capable backup guard. That was 5 drafts that netted up a role player LB, a decent but oft injured RB, a good guard, then a string of sub par starters or backups. I wouldn't put that stretch anywhere near the top of the league.

Lol how did the free agent miscues have "little to no impact on the team"? We had guys making a bunch of money and getting little to no production out of them? How does having players on the team who basically have to get playing time doing nothing have no impact?

Do I believe Bill would take Tyreek Hill on his team if money weren't a factor? Yes 10 times out of 10. Do I believe Bill values the position enough to pay a premium for Hill or any other elite receiver? No. Bill does not seem to value the position. I wonder if Bill didnt whiff in 2019 and did take Deebo, AJ Brown, or DK Metcalf if he would have actually paid them when it was time or would he have let them walk.

Yeah, Belichick has never valued WRs. If he couldn't have fleeced the Raiders, Randy Moss probably would have never been a Patriot. And he let Edelman walk and test free agency which could have gotten someone to overpay for him. He also would rather trade away Deion Branch than pay him.

And he could have tried to get one of the WRs that were traded last year, but there didn't even seem to be a report that the Pats were interested.

 

[crawhammer]

He's a middle of the road QB - he's not "mediocre."

Is "middle of the road" that much better than mediocre? Not in my world. Mediocre literally means "of only moderate quality; not very good." Mac isn't "very good" and he's "of moderate quality." Sounds right to me.

The kid missed three games and still finished 17th in the league in completions

You're going with a volume stat? I guess Brady had the greatest single season ever, considering he set a new record for pass completions.

You've got too many tiers designed to try and fit your argument.

I disagree but I can switch it up too...

QB Tiers (excluding draft class)

Tier 1 (elite class)

Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Jalen Hurts

Tier 2 (above average to very good)

Aaron Rodgers (will have NYJ contending for the division)
Tua Tagovailoa (needs strong supporting cast which he has)
Trevor Lawrence
Justin Fields (projection for 2023... I think he'll be Tier 1 eventually)
Deshaun Watson (CPoY in 2023)
Kyler Murray
Geno Smith (will continue to thrive in that offense which got better in the draft)
Kirk Cousins
Matthew Stafford
Jared Goff
Derek Carr (nice choice signing with the Saints)
Dak Prescott
Daniel Jones (has been a good QB other than with Judge)
Brock Purdy (iffy based on limited sample size he looked damn good in that stacked offense)

Tier 3 (mediocre to bad)

Russell Wilson (CPoY candidate #2)
Andy Dalton
Ryan Tannehill
Baker Mayfield
Mac Jones
Kenny Pickett (arrow is pointing up though)
Taylor Heinicke
Davis Mills
Matt Ryan (retiring?)
Desmond Ridder
Sam Darnold
Zach Wilson

Less tiers, same order, i.e. Mac didn't get any better in the last hour.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'd have to agree albeit I didn't see it quite as "mediocre" as you say. Still, Jones is going to have to have both a terrific year while proving the needle is pointed up and it's probably going to have to include some "moments" this year to instill long-term confidence to warrant that type of potential salary. I've been a supporter of his, but I do feel like that's the one thing that's been missing. He's going to need a few of them next year, along with obviously a playoff run that will also require a victory, preferably one that is due to his play and not in spite of it. Otherwise, they may just view the economics of it and move on.

Mac needs to show up more vs teams .500 and above as his record is really bad against. Somewhere around 5-15.

Lol how did the free agent miscues have "little to no impact on the team"? We had guys making a bunch of money and getting little to no production out of them? How does having players on the team who basically have to get playing time doing nothing have no impact?

According to Andrew Brandt, this is what gets teams in cap trouble - not paying QB's a ton of money.

Do I believe Bill would take Tyreek Hill on his team if money weren't a factor? Yes 10 times out of 10. Do I believe Bill values the position enough to pay a premium for Hill or any other elite receiver? No. Bill does not seem to value the position. I wonder if Bill didnt whiff in 2019 and did take Deebo, AJ Brown, or DK Metcalf if he would have actually paid them when it was time or would he have let them walk.

It's bizarre Bill just won't draft WR's and get them on the cheap. If they end up good, that's a good problem to have. If you don't want to pay them, let them walk and draft their replacement.

And he let Edelman walk and test free agency which could have gotten someone to overpay for him.

Which is odd given he paid Danny Amendola a year prior who was known as an injury prone player and didn't do much prior to joining NE. Very controversial signing. Emmanuel Sanders was ready to join the Pats in 2014, but wanted the same contract Amendola received. Bill didn't want to do it which was a mistake. Sanders would've lit it up with Brady.

 

[upstater1]

I think the last few drafts haven't been bad and it is hard to judge them this soon but there was a pretty long stretch of drafts that didn't amount to much for us. 2019 was a mess outside of a couple productive seasons for Damien Harris. 2018 wasn't great with two subpar first round picks and then Bentley being the only solid player. 2017 was basically nonexistent. 2016 we got a good guard and a capable backup guard. That was 5 drafts that netted up a role player LB, a decent but oft injured RB, a good guard, then a string of sub par starters or backups. I wouldn't put that stretch anywhere near the top of the league.

Lol how did the free agent miscues have "little to no impact on the team"? We had guys making a bunch of money and getting little to no production out of them? How does having players on the team who basically have to get playing time doing nothing have no impact?

Do I believe Bill would take Tyreek Hill on his team if money weren't a factor? Yes 10 times out of 10. Do I believe Bill values the position enough to pay a premium for Hill or any other elite receiver? No. Bill does not seem to value the position. I wonder if Bill didnt whiff in 2019 and did take Deebo, AJ Brown, or DK Metcalf if he would have actually paid them when it was time or would he have let them walk.

Some of those drafts were bad, but 2016 and 2017 we lost a lot of picks, from either trades for Cooks or else due to Deflategate. You're not going to do great when you start picking in the 3rd round. THat's not Belichick's fault. 4 mid to late picks and we ended up with Deatrich Wise. That's not non-existent at all, not sure why you think Wise is nothing, or why you'd blame that situation on Belichick. As for 2016, Thuney wasn't a "good guard." He was an All-Pro. Elandon Roberts was a big key to the 2018 Super Bowl victory. Karras great value for a 6th rounder. Mitchell was a great pick that was key to the 2106 Super Bowl. This was a good draft. Not sure what you're looking for in drafts if you think 2016 wasn't a good one, even without a first rounder. Even Grugier Hill has gone on to have a decent NFL career.

2 free agent miscues. BFD. They're gone. In 2 years. Who cares?

As for wiffing on those receivers, AJ Brow was ALLOWED to walk. And by the way, there were 5 busts taken before Metcalf got taken. Most of the WRs taken in the first 2 rounds of that draft busted. It's a crap shoot. 5 out of 9.

 

[upstater1]

You have to look at the strength of the conference though.

The 3 best teams in the AFC are lead by the 3 best QBs in the league: Mahomes, J. Allen, Burrow. Then you have other high end guys like Herbert, Rodgers, L. Jackson, Watson, Lawrence.

It’s gonna be hell to get by KC, Buffalo, and Cincy for the next 5 years or so in the AFC, and then after that you still have a bunch of high end QBs to deal with. We are gonna need to be able to score.

But, there were good QBs back over the last 20 years as well. Brees is a HOFer with great stats. One Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers. One Super Bowl. Peyton Manning had more success, but for a long career like that, more should've been expected. Kurt Warner, Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, Bret Favre, so I don't think the quality of QBs stood in the way of the likes of Delhomme or Brad Johnson. Many of the guys I just mentioned are HOFers.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac needs to show up more vs teams .500 and above as his record is really bad against. Somewhere around 5-15.

According to Andrew Brandt, this is what gets teams in cap trouble - not paying QB's a ton of money.

It's bizarre Bill just won't draft WR's and get them on the cheap. If they end up good, that's a good problem to have. If you don't want to pay them, let them walk and draft their replacement.

Which is odd given he paid Danny Amendola a year prior who was known as an injury prone player and didn't do much prior to joining NE. Very controversial signing. Emmanuel Sanders was ready to join the Pats in 2014, but wanted the same contract Amendola received. Bill didn't want to do it which was a mistake. Sanders would've lit it up with Brady.

People look at Mac's record against teams above .500, but people need to also look at the defense's performance against teams above .500 during that time. I mean what lost the Patriots the Vikings' game? Jones only passing for 382 yards and two TDs and no picks or the defense not having an answer for Jefferson. In two consecutive games vs. the Bills in 2021, the defense let the Bills score on every meaningful drive including TDs on every meaningful drive in the playoffs. Last year the Pats gave up 22 points vs the Bengals in the first half and 21 points against the Bills in second half (in the Bills game, they went into half time with a 14-14 tie). The defense has been a bit of mirage because they play awesome vs. the bad and average teams and awful against the good ones. It wasn't always on Mac Jones.

And I think the cap rules are changing with the new TV deals. I don't think what worked and didn't work before will be the same going forward. Smart teams will adapt. Others will struggle.

 

[Boomer B]

But, there were good QBs back over the last 20 years as well. Brees is a HOFer with great stats. One Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers. One Super Bowl. Peyton Manning had more success, but for a long career like that, more should've been expected. Kurt Warner, Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, Bret Favre, so I don't think the quality of QBs stood in the way of the likes of Delhomme or Brad Johnson. Many of the guys I just mentioned are HOFers.

Sure, but I think the AFC right now is a bit different. Using your Delhomme example, who were the best QBs teams in the NFC that year he had to go through? Quincy Carter, Marc Bulger, and Donovan McNabb. Not exactly a murderers row of QBs.

For the Pats to make the SB you got 3 stacked teams with the 3 best QBs standing in your way (KC, Bills, Cincy) and beyond them you have top tier QBs in Herbert, Rodgers, L. Jackson, and more. I just don’t see a SB path expecting our D to hold down those offences. Our O needs to play well.

 

[203Pat]

Some of those drafts were bad, but 2016 and 2017 we lost a lot of picks, from either trades for Cooks or else due to Deflategate. You're not going to do great when you start picking in the 3rd round. THat's not Belichick's fault. 4 mid to late picks and we ended up with Deatrich Wise. That's not non-existent at all, not sure why you think Wise is nothing, or why you'd blame that situation on Belichick. As for 2016, Thuney wasn't a "good guard." He was an All-Pro. Elandon Roberts was a big key to the 2018 Super Bowl victory. Karras great value for a 6th rounder. Mitchell was a great pick that was key to the 2106 Super Bowl. This was a good draft. Not sure what you're looking for in drafts if you think 2016 wasn't a good one, even without a first rounder. Even Grugier Hill has gone on to have a decent NFL career.

2 free agent miscues. BFD. They're gone. In 2 years. Who cares?

As for wiffing on those receivers, AJ Brow was ALLOWED to walk. And by the way, there were 5 busts taken before Metcalf got taken. Most of the WRs taken in the first 2 rounds of that draft busted. It's a crap shoot. 5 out of 9.

They lost one pick in 2016, and yes, it was a first round pick, they still had plenty of shots to get someone talented in the second and ended up with Cyrus Jones. You want to get into semantics over what I called Thuney then go for it. Yes he was a great guard and a second team All Pro. Elandon Roberts was a decent role player and Mitchell played well down the stretch in his one half season but I wouldn't go so far as to say either was a "big key" to winning that Super Bowl. Does one "great" guard, a backup guard, half season from a receiver and a role player LB make it a good draft? Not to me but to each his own.

I didnt realize you were so attached to Deatrich Wise either. He is a serviceable role player but I don't think we should throw him a ticker tape parade. That 2017 draft netted us two tackles who up until late last season never even played a down for us, another DE who couldn't stay on the field, and the aforementioned Wise. I wouldn't call that a good draft either regardless of the circumstances it is what it is.

 

[Hyped]

A bit off topic, but the way I see it:

a.) We have these MAJOR FAs in 2024:

Dave Andrews, C
Matthew Judon, Edge
Josh Uche, Edge
Kyle Dugger, SS
Michael Owenu, G

b.) We just drafted an Edge rusher in the 2nd and three interior OL-men in the 4th/5th. It looks like prepared for one of Andrews/Onwenu and one of Judon/Uche to walk in FA by drafting those guys.

c.) We don’t really have a TE nor an OT under contract for 2024.

d.) We will be one of the teams in top five for available cap space in 2024.

e.) We seem to be in a wait and see mode with our 2021 & 2022 draft classes: Mac Jones, Barmore, Perkins, Rham, and maybe Bledsoe & Strange, Thorton, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Pierre Strong, and maybe Zappe/Kevin Harris.

Reading the tea leaves, it looks like this season will be an audition of sorts for our 2021/22 draft classes, our pending UFAs, and new draftees. The team as presently constructed has the ability to play complementary football if we shore up our ST miscues, get the offense to move the chains, and improve our pressure rate to make up for DMac no longer being on the top of the D to clean up things.

IOW, BB is all in on Mac Jones for 2023 whether he likes it or not. If this team underperforms…I expect MASSIVE changes to be made…especially if we end up with a top 10 pick in the 2024 NFL draft.

My benchmark for this team is 10 wins and a playoff berth…possibly playing on divisional weekend.

 

[upstater1]

According to Andrew Brandt, this is what gets teams in cap trouble - not paying QB's a ton of money.

Are we in cap trouble because of Agholor or Jonnu Smith? No. Teams are giving FAs huge contracts well into the future.

I'll name you a team in trouble: the Bills with Von Miller's contract. That sucker is pushed 5 years out. The Patriots tend to cut ties cleanly.

 

[mgteich]

A bit off topic, but the way I see it:

a.) We have these MAJOR FAs in 2024:

Dave Andrews, C
Matthew Judon, Edge
Josh Uche, Edge
Kyle Dugger, SS
Michael Owenu, G

b.) We just drafted an Edge rusher in the 2nd and three interior OL-men in the 4th/5th. It looks like prepared for one of Andrews/Onwenu and one of Judon/Uche to walk in FA by drafting those guys.

We also drafted a Dugger clone in Mapu.

 

[upstater1]

They lost one pick in 2016, and yes, it was a first round pick, they still had plenty of shots to get someone talented in the second and ended up with Cyrus Jones. You want to get into semantics over what I called Thuney then go for it. Yes he was a great guard and a second team All Pro. Elandon Roberts was a decent role player and Mitchell played well down the stretch in his one half season but I wouldn't go so far as to say either was a "big key" to winning that Super Bowl. Does one "great" guard, a backup guard, half season from a receiver and a role player LB make it a good draft? Not to me but to each his own.

I didnt realize you were so attached to Deatrich Wise either. He is a serviceable role player but I don't think we should throw him a ticker tape parade. That 2017 draft netted us two tackles who up until late last season never even played a down for us, another DE who couldn't stay on the field, and the aforementioned Wise. I wouldn't call that a good draft either regardless of the circumstances it is what it is.

You are asking way too much from drafting. You say I'm quibbling about an All-Pro guard, but the guy was the highest paid guard in the league. What more do you want? Wise is nothing special, OK. I'm looking for solid contributing starters, 8 sacks last year for a guy like him is pretty good.

But again, no 1st rounder, no 2nd rounder. 4 picks total. You're really knocking them for not landing on the DEs with NO PREMIUM PICKS in that draft.

Totally disagree also on Mitchell and Roberts. Mitchell caught 6 passes in the 4th quarter of the 2016 SB and he kept the chains moving. He was a key to that win.

Roberts set the tone with Hightower in 2018 as he blew up the Rams multiple times and destroyed their offense.



All of this is actually irrelevant anyway because if you look at the 2016 and 2017 drafts, the vast majority of players have already cycled out of the league. It has barely anything to do with today's team: 2016 NFL Draft Listing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Have a look from the 3rd round on, who do you like?

I see Kendall Fuller, Justin Simmons, Tyler Higbee, Tyreek Hill (5th rd), that's it. 4 players that would help us. We're way past this draft at this point, it has little to do with the current state of the Patriots.

 

[203Pat]

You are asking way too much from drafting. You say I'm quibbling about an All-Pro guard, but the guy was the highest paid guard in the league. What more do you want? Wise is nothing special, OK. I'm looking for solid contributing starters, 8 sacks last year for a guy like him is pretty good.

But again, no 1st rounder, no 2nd rounder. 4 picks total. You're really knocking them for not landing on the DEs with NO PREMIUM PICKS in that draft.

Totally disagree also on Mitchell and Roberts. Mitchell caught 6 passes in the 4th quarter of the 2016 SB and he kept the chains moving. He was a key to that win.

Roberts set the tone with Hightower in 2018 as he blew up the Rams multiple times and destroyed their offense.



All of this is actually irrelevant anyway because if you look at the 2016 and 2017 drafts, the vast majority of players have already cycled out of the league. It has barely anything to do with today's team: 2016 NFL Draft Listing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Have a look from the 3rd round on, who do you like?

I see Kendall Fuller, Justin Simmons, Tyler Higbee, Tyreek Hill (5th rd), that's it. 4 players that would help us. We're way past this draft at this point, it has little to do with the current state of the Patriots.

I said you're getting into semantic over calling Thuney good vs great. I am fine calling him great he was a great player for us. Wise is a solid role player who isn't bad but isn't good. I am not completely killing Bill for the 2017 draft but it is a draft that still counts. You can't just erase it because we traded for Cooks and Kony Ealy then traded picks all over the board.

As for Elandon Roberts he was a role player and a guy who gave us solid production for a late round pick but he was just a guy. We still have 6 rings without Elandon Roberts. I appreciate what we got out of him but I'm sorry he just didn't move the needle that much. Mitchell was a good player who played well in the very limited time he was here but it wasn't just a freak injury. He had knee problems throughout college and it ended up being the reason his career ended so quickly. I like the kid but I wouldn't say playing less than one season's worth of games as a 4th round pick is necessarily a good pick.

 

[Huckleberry1]

"Death Sentence"....... No offense but you are definitively stating that a team without a true franchise QB can NOT compete. Then how do you explain Brock Purdy, or even Tom Brady circa 2001. Sorry but you hit a nerve. I CANNOT get past the idea that the success of a football team relies on ONE man.

There is no other team sport that relies LESS on the one man theory. Even the greatest QB can't do his job without a solid OL, good RB's and competent receivers. The supposed greatest QB playing today hasn't even BEEN to a superbowl in over a decade. How come Lamar Jackson has just ONE playoff win in the 5 years he's been in the league and is now "earn" the biggest QB contract in history. How come everyone is now raving about Justin Fields after he led Chicago to a THREE win season, while Mac is vilified after leading HIS team to an 8 win season.

Granted the QB IS the most important position on the offense. Not saying it isn't, but football is the ULTIMATE team game where everybody's success relies on how the 10 OTHER guys do their jobs. Otherwise how do you explain Brock Purdy?

Brock Purdue played very well for a very good team for about a 1/3 of a season. Good for him, but that’s a far cry from playing QB for an entire season, not to mention getting through the playoffs with him. And you can get upset about the phrase “ death sentence” if you want Ken, but I think it’s pretty clear to most NFL fans that is you are screwed at QB you are pretty screwed as a team.

As far as your contention that it takes a team there was nothing in my post that said otherwise, and I have made the exact same argument to everyone here who has tried to claim it was all Brady throughout their dynasties.

As for the other QB’s you mentioned the best one playing today is Mahomes, and he’s won two already in his career. As far as Jackson goes I believe his passing is inconsistent, and you can’t have that in the playoffs. As far as Fields goes I have no idea who you are listening to, but I have never said anything about him one way or the other.

As far as Brady circa 2001 goes, he was able to come in, manage games exactly the way Belichick wanted him to, and benefit from a strong run game, defense, and special teams, and then make big plays at critical moments. And if you have read my posts on the draft you would realize that I have been making the argument that Belichick appears to be going back to that model to deal with the opponents they will face this season. They aren’t going to be a shoot out team, they are going to try to run the ball, control TOP, field position, and the number of drives their opponent gets, while playing strong defense and trying to win the turnover battle.

Feel free to go through as many of my posts as you want Ken, at no point have I ever suggested that QB’s win games by themselves, in fact just the opposite is true, as I have told those that insist it was all Brady that it took the whole team and coaching staff to win those Lombardi’s, he was just the most important player on them.

 

[Triumph]

If it comes down to these two Mac likely will get the starting nod because he is the better QB. No other reason.

Zappe doesn't belong in the same sentence as the GOAT Tom Brady and he never will.

The defense wasn't as good the last few years as people say it was. I mean... making the Bills punt last season was an "accomplishment". Without terrible weather they weren't good enough to slow down top offenses in this league. I'm really liking what they did in this draft and I expect a big improvement there. Ditto for ST's.

Hey Short Bus # 1.

Nobody is comparing Zappe to Brady. I was simply drawing the comparison between Bledsoe and Jones both highly touted and of 1st round draft pedigree. Right or wrong.

BB could not just bench Bledsoe in lieu of Brady without serious repercussions. Same for Jones. The media went ape 5hit during the few games that Jones was replaced last season.

Your boy gets to start and it's time to 5hit or get off the pot. No more excuses.